Off Topic Politics Thread

[Libby]

I agree - but anyone protesting now, alongside people rioting and burning police cars, when the parents just want space to breathe after losing their kids, is an idiot or a scumbag. Nothing else in between.

Organise a peaceful march in a week or two. Don’t let EDL scum in to it. Don’t attack police.

So many scumbags pretending to care about anybody at all.

Yeah I don't massively disagree with that but it's not like these protests weren't happening before this incident. There was one in London the Saturday before wasn't there?

Unfortunately the media frenzy surrounding this and it having the attention of the country makes people think now is the time to get their voices heard, regardless of whether people like you or me agree with it.

 

[Libby]

I've got family who fall into this category. I still love them, because they're family; but some beliefs and some behavior are irredeemably scummy, and need to be called out as such.

Agreed. We've had multiple fall outs over this in the last year or so cos I can't let the ****e he's spouting straight from the mouth of Tate go unchallenged. The point is he wasn't always like this though and I'm of the belief that the lack of engagement in his more reasonable view points directly led to him seeking out more extreme ones.

The problem with these types of things, especially these days, is that the more you try and point out where people are going wrong the more entrenched they become. I've tried a different tactic lately of asking him if he's noticed that his change of views have coincided with his increased use of social media but I'm not hopeful.

I still love the bloke more than anything but it's getting to the point where I'm going to lose him as I can't have him around my Son spouting this ****e.

 

[Archers Road]

Agreed. We've had multiple fall outs over this in the last year or so cos I can't let the ****e he's spouting straight from the mouth of Tate go unchallenged. The point is he wasn't always like this though and I'm of the belief that the lack of engagement in his more reasonable view points directly led to him seeking out more extreme ones.

The problem with these types of things, especially these days, is that the more you try and point out where people are going wrong the more entrenched they become. I've tried a different tactic lately of asking him if he's noticed that his change of views have coincided with his increased use of social media but I'm not hopeful.

I still love the bloke more than anything but it's getting to the point where I'm going to lose him as I can't have him around my Son spouting this ****e.

Yeah, I blame digital technology really, not that there's much that can be done about it. But with social media and the internet, it's so easy for people to get sucked down rabbit holes.

 

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Agreed. We've had multiple fall outs over this in the last year or so cos I can't let the ****e he's spouting straight from the mouth of Tate go unchallenged. The point is he wasn't always like this though and I'm of the belief that the lack of engagement in his more reasonable view points directly led to him seeking out more extreme ones.

The problem with these types of things, especially these days, is that the more you try and point out where people are going wrong the more entrenched they become. I've tried a different tactic lately of asking him if he's noticed that his change of views have coincided with his increased use of social media but I'm not hopeful.

I still love the bloke more than anything but it's getting to the point where I'm going to lose him as I can't have him around my Son spouting this ****e.

I think he needs a girlfriend…

Xenophobia is not necessarily racism by the way. But he is definitely xenophobic.

 

[Libby]

I think he needs a girlfriend…

Xenophobia is not necessarily racism by the way. But he is definitely xenophobic.

He certainly is now. Crazy to think this the same guy I've seen punch people up in town for being racist or xenophobic. He'd probably stand with them now.

Thoroughly depressing.

 

[Libby]

Yeah, I blame digital technology really, not that there's much that can be done about it. But with social media and the internet, it's so easy for people to get sucked down rabbit holes.

Only going to get worse mate I fear.

 

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He certainly is now. Crazy to think this the same guy I've seen punch people up in town for being racist or xenophobic. He'd probably stand with them now.

Thoroughly depressing.

Sad times. Social media needs banning.

 

[Archers Road]

Sad times. Social media needs banning.

Not banning imo. But it certainly needs regulating, though God knows how you do that effectively.

 

[ImpSaint]

Oh it was the Ruskies who are behind "Channel 3 News" or whatever it's called, that sent the original tweet "naming" the suspect (with an Islamic name), saying he was known to MI6 and that he was a recent immigrant from a boat - the tweet that was purporting to be an official news source, and that set all this in motion. The shell company there is based in Lithuania and has a lot of links back to Russian disinformation.

This was the narrative but is wrong. Ch3 Now is the name of the "russian backed" social media account and they apparently picked up the report from a UK based outlet and ran with it but having a bigger reach it spread quicker and then our usual suspects (Robinson and Tate) made it reach more people. When Channel 3 Now found out it was not true they actually took their post down! So it was not them that were the source of the original tweet just as most of the Beebs content is actually lifted from other sources that actually find news most of the modern media just repeats and elaborates stuff that they find without actually fact checking anything first.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

This was the narrative but is wrong. Ch3 Now is the name of the "russian backed" social media account and they apparently picked up the report from a UK based outlet and ran with it but having a bigger reach it spread quicker and then our usual suspects (Robinson and Tate) made it reach more people. When Channel 3 Now found out it was not true they actually took their post down! So it was not them that were the source of the original tweet just as most of the Beebs content is actually lifted from other sources that actually find news most of the modern media just repeats and elaborates stuff that they find without actually fact checking anything first.

You're half right. The original tweet stemmed from a woman in the UK, so yes, it didn't come from Ch3 Now. As you say, it was then promoted by the uber-berk twins, Robinson and Tate, and amplified.

Where you're wrong is "most of the Beebs content is actually lifted from other sources that actually find news most of the modern media just repeats and elaborates stuff that they find without actually fact checking anything first." Again, half right, most of the content (though by no means all) comes from news aggregators such as Reuters and AP. They sell their news content to sites like the BBC, Facebook, Yahoo, Google etc. But they're vigorously fact checked by Reuters etc first (and will be fact checked, particularly when it's content they've sourced themselves by the BBC etc). Do all the above very occasionally get things wrong? Yes, of course. It would be mad to think you can get it 100% right all the time, even when checked. But they don't get it wrong a lot.

The trouble is that in the age of social media and false narratives/lies being peddled at light speed by nefarious sources, there is a bit of a race to be 'first'. I can tell you that Reuters are hugely aware of that, but their prerogative is always to be right, not first. But it exists, and is why mistakes do get made.

 

[ImpSaint]

He certainly is now. Crazy to think this the same guy I've seen punch people up in town for being racist or xenophobic. He'd probably stand with them now.

Thoroughly depressing.

Don't want to worry you in regards your children and social media but there are plenty of well educated, intelligent young 'uns that social media is a brainwashing tool for them and they believe Tate whole-heartedly. I have experience with my own 2 sons on this one and despite their good grades, being mix race etc you cannot convince them that Tate is a bad egg of the smelliest kind!. No need for LSD, they have so many urban myths, old and new, locked into their minds that they are not gonna listen to adults countering any of what they've heard.

 

[ImpSaint]

You're half right. The original tweet stemmed from a woman in the UK, so yes, it didn't come from Ch3 Now. As you say, it was then promoted by the uber-berk twins, Robinson and Tate, and amplified.

Where you're wrong is "most of the Beebs content is actually lifted from other sources that actually find news most of the modern media just repeats and elaborates stuff that they find without actually fact checking anything first." Again, half right, most of the content (though by no means all) comes from news aggregators such as Reuters and AP. They sell their news content to sites like the BBC, Facebook, Yahoo, Google etc. But they're vigorously fact checked by Reuters etc first (and will be fact checked, particularly when it's content they've sourced themselves by the BBC etc). Do all the above very occasionally get things wrong? Yes, of course. It would be mad to think you can get it 100% right all the time, even when checked. But they don't get it wrong a lot.

The trouble is that in the age of social media and false narratives/lies being peddled at light speed by nefarious sources, there is a bit of a race to be 'first'. I can tell you that Reuters are hugely aware of that, but their prerogative is always to be right, not first. But it exists, and is why mistakes do get made.

The BBC these days are very quick to jump on rumours to get them onto their reports. I'm not on about the AP or Reuters stuff they portray as their own exclusives. They are as bad as the rest these days at taking rumours as gospel on the fly.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

The BBC these days are very quick to jump on rumours to get them onto their reports. I'm not on about the AP or Reuters stuff they portray as their own exclusives. They are as bad as the rest these days at taking rumours as gospel on the fly.

"They" being the BBC or Reuters/AP?

 

[ImpSaint]

"They" being the BBC or Reuters/AP?

In this case BBC. I don't really access Reuters or AP stuff directly So if I get something that has originated from Reuters or AP it will more than likely be portrayed as a BBC exclusive anyway. And yes it may be the same on ITV/CH4/other Brit news services but I mainly get my news from the BBC still.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

In this case BBC. I don't really access Reuters or AP stuff directly So if I get something that has originated from Reuters or AP it will more than likely be portrayed as a BBC exclusive anyway. And yes it may be the same on ITV/CH4/other Brit news services but I mainly get my news from the BBC still.

Yeah, the Beeb are naturally more cautious than the likes of ITV (and particularly Sky), but they have become slightly victim to the need to be 'first'. I would always go back to a Reuters or AP type source where possible.

In their defence, you'll often get people saying "why the hell haven't the BBC said something yet" and that is because they are reasonably cautious.

 

[saintlyhero]

Sad times. Social media needs banning.

Wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

It’s not like misinformation, propaganda etc are new.
At least it’s harder for a state to control the narrative through its tv channels, radio and newspapers.

As quick as information gets out, it can also quickly get de-bunked by the same methods.

All we can do is teach our children to think critically, to seek alternative views and try not to get depressed about the world.

 

[......loading......]

Wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

It’s not like misinformation, propaganda etc are new.
At least it’s harder for a state to control the narrative through its tv channels, radio and newspapers.

As quick as information gets out, it can also quickly get de-bunked by the same methods.

All we can do is teach our children to think critically, to seek alternative views and try not to get depressed about the world.

The problem is we live in a ‘he who shouts loudest is most correct’ world…

 

[saintlyhero]

The problem is we live in a ‘he who shouts loudest is most correct’ world…

I hear you

 

[saintlyhero]

Just on the riots, Labour do have to get a grip on the situation and quickly. I don’t mean the protests themselves, but on improving and investing in our poorest towns(where a lot of the protests are taking place)

The counter argument to immigration being an issue in the uk has long been Tory austerity.
They need to reverse that asap and make some significant changes in October for the next budget.

If the working class feel they’re being ignored again, then this is only going to escalate

 

[Archers Road]

Don't want to worry you in regards your children and social media but there are plenty of well educated, intelligent young 'uns that social media is a brainwashing tool for them and they believe Tate whole-heartedly. I have experience with my own 2 sons on this one and despite their good grades, being mix race etc you cannot convince them that Tate is a bad egg of the smelliest kind!. No need for LSD, they have so many urban myths, old and new, locked into their minds that they are not gonna listen to adults countering any of what they've heard.

That’s scary