Off Topic Politics Thread

[Saintjoey]

I spend a lot of time on here pouring scorn on conspiracy theorists, and I realise this might sound like I am espousing one, but hear me out.

There is a campaign of sorts going on to destabilise the country. The riots are being stirred up by key individuals like Andrew Tate and Stephen Yaxley-Lennon through their influential social media platforms. At the same time Farage pontificates, draped in Union Flags, pretending to be statesmanlike, and calling for the nation to rid itself of irksome bureaucracy like, er, our entire human rights legislation.

Those of us who have studied 20th century history to any extent will recognise all of this only too clearly. It’s all happened before, and it ends very badly indeed.

There was evidence found in France of Russia being responsible for stoking antisemitism and the same in America from Iran. There will be evidence found here of Russia (possibly China) stoking civil unrest, I’m sure of it.

Like you, I normally am extremely scornful when it comes to conspiracy theories but this one is pretty obvious, I think.

 

[Saintjoey]

These riots are absolutely despicable. Places of worship should always be kept sacred and respected. Whatever your view on religion.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

There was evidence found in France of Russia being responsible for stoking antisemitism and the same in America from Iran. There will be evidence found here of Russia (possibly China) stoking civil unrest, I’m sure of it.

Like you, I normally am extremely scornful when it comes to conspiracy theories but this one is pretty obvious, I think.

Oh it was the Ruskies who are behind "Channel 3 News" or whatever it's called, that sent the original tweet "naming" the suspect (with an Islamic name), saying he was known to MI6 and that he was a recent immigrant from a boat - the tweet that was purporting to be an official news source, and that set all this in motion. The shell company there is based in Lithuania and has a lot of links back to Russian disinformation.

 

[Saintjoey]

Oh it was the Ruskies who are behind "Channel 3 News" or whatever it's called, that sent the original tweet "naming" the suspect (with an Islamic name), saying he was known to MI6 and that he was a recent immigrant from a boat - the tweet that was purporting to be an official news source, and that set all this in motion. The shell company there is based in Lithuania and has a lot of links back to Russian disinformation.

Straight from their playbook.

 

[saintrichie123]

Pretty much sums it up…

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[ChilcoSaint]

This is Tarquin. Tarquin is on holiday from his post as Professor of Advanced Linguistics at the University of Millwall:

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[thereisonlyoneno7]

This is Tarquin. Tarquin is on holiday from his post as Professor of Advanced Linguistics at the University of Millwall:

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lol I had to read the comments. The best one (for those that have watched Clarkeson’s Farm)

“Even Gerald couldn’t understand him “

 

[Libby]

*Unpopular post alert*


I think we need to be extremely careful about tarring everybody out on the streets as far right hooligans. Is that truly any different to the racists tarring all asylum seekers as rapists and/or criminals?

Many people there will be going purely for a peaceful protest, as is their right, and will have some legitimate concerns (not that I necessarily agree). They shouldn't be lumped in with the thugs merely there to cause trouble and couldn't care less about any supposed cause.

And if they are then that actually feeds into the narrative from the far right and helps amplify their message. More division never heals division and you can't fight hate with hate.

The way I see it is there are probably 3 main groups of people involved with these events:

- The far right who are main instigators of trouble and behind the movement getting people travelling hundreds of miles to different cities to cause havoc.

- Kids/teenagers who don't need much of an excuse to act like ****s during the holidays and a spell of good weather.

- People wanting to protest peacefully within their communities about concerns they might have.


The more people lump that third group in with the first group then the more of them will actually become part of that group. And that's the absolute last thing this country needs right now.

 

[AberdeenSaint]

I can`t help but notice that when other countries win gold at the Olympics, their national anthems are usual uplifting songs concerning pride in the country and its people. We have a dreary dirge about one unelected individual who is in the position by luck. Send him victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us..... Not for me thanks.

 

[greensaint]

Depressed as I am about the ongoing thuggery I'm also a bit angry about the constant linking, even by supposed decent media sources, to the tragic deaths of 3 little girls.

It's nothing to do with them and their distressed families.

Just stop reporting these thugs as responding to the tragic events in Southport, they are just using it as an excuse for criminal posturing.

 

[Archers Road]

*Unpopular post alert*


I think we need to be extremely careful about tarring everybody out on the streets as far right hooligans. Is that truly any different to the racists tarring all asylum seekers as rapists and/or criminals?

Many people there will be going purely for a peaceful protest, as is their right, and will have some legitimate concerns (not that I necessarily agree). They shouldn't be lumped in with the thugs merely there to cause trouble and couldn't care less about any supposed cause.

And if they are then that actually feeds into the narrative from the far right and helps amplify their message. More division never heals division and you can't fight hate with hate.

The way I see it is there are probably 3 main groups of people involved with these events:

- The far right who are main instigators of trouble and behind the movement getting people travelling hundreds of miles to different cities to cause havoc.

- Kids/teenagers who don't need much of an excuse to act like ****s during the holidays and a spell of good weather.

- People wanting to protest peacefully within their communities about concerns they might have.


The more people lump that third group in with the first group then the more of them will actually become part of that group. And that's the absolute last thing this country needs right now.

Nah mate. Just no. Anyone attending rallies organised online by far right agitators, have nothing to do with the right to peaceful protest.

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

*Unpopular post alert*


I think we need to be extremely careful about tarring everybody out on the streets as far right hooligans. Is that truly any different to the racists tarring all asylum seekers as rapists and/or criminals?

Many people there will be going purely for a peaceful protest, as is their right, and will have some legitimate concerns (not that I necessarily agree). They shouldn't be lumped in with the thugs merely there to cause trouble and couldn't care less about any supposed cause.

And if they are then that actually feeds into the narrative from the far right and helps amplify their message. More division never heals division and you can't fight hate with hate.

The way I see it is there are probably 3 main groups of people involved with these events:

- The far right who are main instigators of trouble and behind the movement getting people travelling hundreds of miles to different cities to cause havoc.

- Kids/teenagers who don't need much of an excuse to act like ****s during the holidays and a spell of good weather.

- People wanting to protest peacefully within their communities about concerns they might have.


The more people lump that third group in with the first group then the more of them will actually become part of that group. And that's the absolute last thing this country needs right now.

They have to call them all far right extremist football thugs otherwise they would be admitting that some ordinary decent people don't like the way politicians, police and some of the media are controlling events.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/08/02/keir-starmers-two-tier-tyranny/

 

[......loading......]

Nah mate. Just no. Anyone attending rallies organised online by far right agitators, have nothing to do with the right to peaceful protest.

Was about to say this. Only a far right racist thinks a moment of quiet reflection for dead children is a ‘time to protest’ anything. They can all burn in hell.

 

[Libby]

Nah mate. Just no. Anyone attending rallies organised online by far right agitators, have nothing to do with the right to peaceful protest.

So there is nobody protesting peacefully? As far as I can see a lot of the smaller ones are going ahead without incident.

It mainly seems to be the larger ones with people being dragged up from loads of places outside the community - driven by the far right - where thugs are there purely to kick off.

In my view this is a clear tactic to cause as much issues as possible by concentrating those with bad intentions in one place rather than having those people spread out.

My point is labelling anyone with concerns around immigration as racist as has been happening since the Brexit campaign is part of the reason we are where we are now.

We've largely lost the ability to have nuanced conversations as a society in the era of social media (which is a cancer) era imo. Simply labelling people as racist without any engagement on their thoughts pushes people towards extremism.

Sadly I've got a friend who falls into this exact category. He was always pro immigration but was worried about whether the numbers were sustainable over the long term and the lack of integration in some areas.

Unfortunately whenever he discussed this with many people they just brushed him off calling him a racist and Ukip fan boy etc. so after a while he stopped trying and ended up going down the rabbit hole of utter ****s like Tate and Yaxley-Lennon.

I've known this guy for near 30 years and he's never had a racist bone in his body but now has fallen for the propaganda around this issue and is a completely different person. Breaks my heart.

 

[......loading......]

This kid who did the stabbing was as English as me or anyone else born here to foreign parents. Wtaf are people protesting? English people?

I think anyone can see from my posts I am immigration sceptical, but this is being stoked up by racists and lies.

 

[Libby]

Was about to say this. Only a far right racist thinks a moment of quiet reflection for dead children is a ‘time to protest’ anything. They can all burn in hell.

This isn't about the horrific incident in Southport and it's disgusting that people are using such a thing to advance their hateful ideology.

This has been bubbling under the surface and coming for a good few years now and anyone who hasn't realised that hasn't been paying attention imo.

 

[......loading......]

This isn't about the horrific incident in Southport and it's disgusting that people are using such a thing to advance their hateful ideology.

This has been bubbling under the surface and coming for a good few years now and anyone who hasn't realised that hasn't been paying attention imo.

I agree - but anyone protesting now, alongside people rioting and burning police cars, when the parents just want space to breathe after losing their kids, is an idiot or a scumbag. Nothing else in between.

Organise a peaceful march in a week or two. Don’t let EDL scum in to it. Don’t attack police.

So many scumbags pretending to care about anybody at all.

 

[Libby]

This kid who did the stabbing was as English as me or anyone else born here to foreign parents. Wtaf are people protesting? English people?

I think anyone can see from my posts I am immigration sceptical, but this is being stoked up by racists and lies.

Welsh actually!

Yeah you have made that point. And make no mistake there's thousands of people in this country who would happily label you as a far right racist for having that opinion.

The middle ground has completely ceased to exist in recent years. It's horrifying to me how much worse this could get in years to come as a father.

I've spent basically this entire week talking to my son about how many people out there will try and convince him that migration is the cause of all our problems and that he needs to know it's complete bollocks.

I'm terrified about him getting to an age where he can use social media and what he'll be exposed to.

 

[......loading......]

Welsh actually!

Yeah you have made that point. And make no mistake there's thousands of people in this country who would happily label you as a far right racist for having that opinion.

The middle ground has completely ceased to exist in recent years. It's horrifying to me how much worse this could get in years to come as a father.

I've spent basically this entire week talking to my son about his many people out there will try and convince him that migration is the cause of all our problems and that he needs to know it's complete bollocks.

I'm terrified about him getting to an age where he can use social media and what he'll be exposed to.

There is no easy solution to this. But people will always blame immigrants when they feel poor and unsupported. The solution is in making rents cheaper, improving social services and dialling down the conversation.

Yea, lefties calling righties racist doesn’t help, but so many people are saying racist things. We saw the muslim blaming on this very board!

 

[Archers Road]

So there is nobody protesting peacefully? As far as I can see a lot of the smaller ones are going ahead without incident.

It mainly seems to be the larger ones with people being dragged up from loads of places outside the community - driven by the far right - where thugs are there purely to kick off.

In my view this is a clear tactic to cause as much issues as possible by concentrating those with bad intentions in one place rather than having those people spread out.

My point is labelling anyone with concerns around immigration as racist as has been happening since the Brexit campaign is part of the reason we are where we are now.

We've largely lost the ability to have nuanced conversations as a society in the era of social media (which is a cancer) era imo. Simply labelling people as racist without any engagement on their thoughts pushes people towards extremism.

Sadly I've got a friend who falls into this exact category. He was always pro immigration but was worried about whether the numbers were sustainable over the long term and the lack of integration in some areas.

Unfortunately whenever he discussed this with many people they just brushed him off calling him a racist and Ukip fan boy etc. so after a while he stopped trying and ended up going down the rabbit hole of utter ****s like Tate and Yaxley-Lennon.

I've known this guy for near 30 years and he's never had a racist bone in his body but now has fallen for the propaganda around this issue and is a completely different person. Breaks my heart.

I've got family who fall into this category. I still love them, because they're family; but some beliefs and some behavior are irredeemably scummy, and need to be called out as such.