Has it had a big impact today? And has it had as big an impact with as many people as the number who watched last night? I’m not sure how it could unless it leads to a forced apology at the beginning of the next live debate
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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Not really sure what this means? I don’t back any of them.
I think reforms manifesto promises will lead to a better country. Problem is, no one sticks to their campaign promises.
It’s literally all bullshit
What he may or may not have planned in 2020 is irrelevant. If he wins this year he can't stand again. There is no prospect of an Enabling Act making him dictator for life or giving him unlimited power. There is no prospect of the Constitution being amended to allow him to stand in a third election. None of the Project 2025 stuff threatens to destroy democracy.
Look, I get it. If elected he'll do a lot of stuff you don't like. I don't like some of what's in there. He isn't going to destroy democracy though.
Let me put it this way. At the weekend I told my five year old he couldn't have ice cream. He had a massive tantrum and told me that when I'm asleep he's going to get a light sabre and cut my head off. There's more chance of that happening than there is of Donald Trump destroying democracy in America.
Reform more than any of the others can have a manifesto that looks appealing as they will never have to implement it. It does make you wonder why others like the Lib Dem’s aren’t similarly bold
If Jeremy Corbyn had a magic money tree, Reform have a magic money forest. Crazy day dream politics of tax cuts and increased spending.
I do like that Os is supporting nationalisation though. Was fervently against it a year ago!
But He. Is. Going. To. Try. You know that just as well as I do, which is why you aren't arguing with it...you're just stating that he's going to fail. And he might well. But this time, they'll have four years to prepare, and a president wielding the pardon power to ensure that any illegal actions are forgiven (Trump's already flatly stating his intent to do so).
You're saying that they cannot do it because there is no legal grounding for an attempt to overturn democracy, but the legal process was never something they were particularly fussy about (not surprising given, y'know, the overturning-democracy thing). John Eastman, the soon-to-be-disbarred White House lawyer who dreamed up the fake electors scheme, openly admitted to Pence that their scheme was illegal, and they proceeded with it anyway:
https://yahoo.com/news/even-coup-memo-author-told-173116680.html
Others within the White House have stated that Eastman welcomed the likelihood that this move would result in disorder in the streets, because it would allow Trump to invoke the Insurrection Act and institute martial law.
There doesn't need to be an enabling act or a constitutional amendment: plenty of democracies have falling back into autocracy via what amounted to auto-coups, because once one holds enough of the levers of power, it becomes much easier to get the other levers of power to fall into line.
He wants to do it. He'll have four years to prepare to do it, to put the right people in place to do it. And he's going to try to do it. And yeah, he might be so spectacularly incompetent that he fails, and his all-McDonald's diet might cause him to drop dead before that point. But he is absolutely a threat to democracy. He has proven that before, through word and deed, and if elected he will prove it again.
Seriously, what’s wrong with people? What kind of tragic imbecile thinks Reform are the answer to anything?
Those deluded and gullible enough to think brexshit is anything but national sell harm.
I am sort of with you Puck. The bolded line is exactly how I feel.
He is in the US so in theory doesn't affect me (though he does due to the fact that the US affects everyone). He will do loads I don't agree with. Absolutely loads. What I try to do is separate my dislike for him as a person from things and try not to let that cloud my judgement of everything he says. It is hard though. The CEO of my company (an extremely huge US Financial institution) said on one of our 'Town Halls' this
"I have met him on a few occasions and I have to say he is the most despicable man I have ever encountered in life. Nothing good will come from him leading this country again."
Damning words from someone I respect. The thing about Trump is it isn't necessarily the politics that divide people, it is him. My CEO has admitted in other interviews to being a Republican, so it cant be the politics.
So what of Trump's attempts to subvert the result of the 2020 election by pressuring state officials and members of Congress to interfere with the certification process? Along with the ongoing stolen election rhetoric undermining the election process goes voter suppression claims of voting machine rigging and attacks on election officials like Giuliani's on Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss. Many would say these are demeaning democracy, certainly not bolstering it
Yep they are. However I would hope that if re-elected that’s it. 4 more years of his crap and then that is it. He is gone.
He is a bully. Whatever happens he will bully. Lose, and it’s fraud, win and it’s because he is the almighty. I have this theory that the reason he cites election fraud at every opportunity is because that is what he is constantly trying to do. He runs his businesses like that. If you can’t get a deal done fairly, then do whatever you need to get it over the line. He may be able to get away with it in business, but not in an election.
Don’t put words in my mouth
. I wouldn’t say I support it. I still think privatisation is the best way to run a business. However, the money system and political systems are so broken/corrupt now, incentives are so completely warped that I think nationalisation of public services is probably the only answer. We are now in Weimar Germany in the 20s/30s and seeing all of the same issues.
The amount of printed money that is being hoovered up by these corporations and then used to inflate their own stock / shareholders instead of improving services for the consumer is sickening.
In essence; I don’t support nationalising anything…but I support the current broken set ups even less. And nationalising seems to be the lesser of two evils until the monetary system is fixed and economic incentives align with reality again. (And no politicians are even having the real conversation about the root causes of the decay)
Trump reallyis the boogey man to you guys.
God I hope he wins just to see the liberal tears
That last line isn’t really helpful. Because I could just as easily say I want to Biden win to see the conservative freak out from all those with Biden Derangement Syndrome (a truly deranged condition where people believe he is a senile old man who is just a puppet and also a criminal mastermind in charge of a crime family).
Trump reallyis the boogey man to you guys.
God I hope he wins just to see the liberal tears
Some of the attacks against Biden are just as wild as those against Trump. And some are just projection - notably the “crime family” one.
I’m also staggered by the American right wingers who blame Biden for inflation without spotting that it is high everywhere and higher here in the U.K.
Oz - monetary policy seems to be a special interest area of yours. I assume you are quick to jump into the comment section of all the right with X Accounts you follow and correct them about how inflation is worldwide and Biden isn’t to blame? Or is it only figures representing the “left” and the “mainstream media” that you pull out all the stops to criticise?
I’m not going to lie - trumps 2016 win generated some funny memes/gifs. The screaming woman in the street springs to mind. But I don’t think that’s a suitable trade off for what he’d bring in power - notably bowing down and kissing Putin’s shoes and letting him have free reign of Eastern Europe for as long as he remains alive and has sufficient Russian manpower
Magnanimous in victory gracious in defeat a measure of the man, the team and the country.
Trump reallyis the boogey man to you guys.
God I hope he wins just to see the liberal tears
But who stops him, though? If he executes the purge of the executive branch and military that they are promising, and stock the decision-making organs of government with his most loyal associates, what remains to serve as a guardrail? We know who said no to him previous, and we know that he won't make the mistake of having 'establishment' types near his administration again...he has said so, repeatedly.
I think people vastly overestimate how much braking power all of the checks and balances inherent in the institutions of government exercise, compared to how much of that braking power comes from the people who staff those institutions at the top. SCOTUS isn't a check; the justices of SCOTUS are, and if they are sufficiently Trumpy, they cease to be a brake at all. They also have zero power in a situation where a president simply ignores them...something that hasn't happened for over 150 years, but it has happened. There are no enforcement levers beyond a belief that the Supreme Court gets the final say on constitutional matters (something that is not actually explicitly stated in the Constitution). The military isn't a check; the career officers at the top are, and certainly were in 2020, but the president with 50 senators (and if he wins the presidency, he will have 50 senators) has broad powers to determine who leads each branch of the military. And the president chooses the attorney general and the head of the FBI, and in his past administration those appointees of his curbed his worst impulses. But they won't if he gets reelected and appoints Stephen Miller as AG, as he intends to.
There's this general public belief that democracies the nations of Western Europe and North America are too stable and entrenched to be toppled, but it's worth noting that the people who study comparative and transitional political science have been sounding the alarms on this for years now. Those institutions can fray very quickly unless the people in key positions hold them together, and Trump is going to pick people specifically to tear them apart at the seams.
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And some of the world's highest taxes tbf. With a coherent sense of strong national identity and pride too.
Finland also came out top of the list of the world’s happiest countries in 2021, based on a number of factors. For context, the UK was 20th.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world