If you're implying that people don't like Abbott because of her colour with the "wonder why", I think that's a bit of a cheap shot mate, and wildly incorrect.
Off Topic Politics Thread
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If you're implying that people don't like Abbott because of her colour with the "wonder why", I think that's a bit of a cheap shot mate, and wildly incorrect.
If you think some people don't, then that is also wildly inaccurate. And the roots of the anti-Abbot media situation are very hard to separate from race.
Even this last attack on her is racial. How can it be wrong to say someone who you can visibly see is different faces more consistent racism than someone who looks like everyone else but has a hidden difference? That is just basic logic. But Diane Abbot said it and not a middle-aged white man.
Sure, some people may do, but a vanishingly small number, who will also equally hate David Lammy, Trevor McDonald, Floella Benjamin and Kamaldeen Sulemana. The vast majority of people that don't like Abbott don't like her because she's a terrible politician/public figure. It's too easy just to say that someone is disliked because of their colour alone.
Isn’t it more to do with how terrified Labour were of claims of anti-semitism? If she had made identical comments and not mentioned Jewish people but only mentioned travellers for example - I expect nothing would have happened or it would have been tied up quickly. But the anti-semitism that was allowed to fester for years, including under her preferred leader when she was a shadow minister, left Labour very jittery.
And she speaks out against the party which wouldn’t help her case
I didn't say it was colour alone. Yet her colour has an ugly tendency of creeping into these conversations:
"Frank Hester, who has donated £10m to the Tories, reportedly said the MP made him want to "hate all black women"."
This Tory donor was forgiven his "racist comment" as it did not make him racist. Meanwhile, Abbott was suspended for her comment and will not be allowed to stand at the next election. It does make it LOOK like some kinds of racism are worse than others...
By all accounts she is a very hard-working and effective local MP, by the way.
Depends on whether you believe anti-semitism was allowed to fester for years or not. The actual evidence suggests otherwise. Abbott has always been despised by the right - even when she was a much more effective, younger and more dynamic figure.
I do agree that entrenched, institutionalised racism has obviously impacted her. She’s had to put up with things nobody should.
But I’ll say again, her views on Russia/Ukraine, Assad and Iran are hugely problematic for me. There’s no doubt she, at best and being generous, has a blindspot for antisemitism.
But I’ll say again, her views on Russia/Ukraine, Assad and Iran are hugely problematic for me. There’s no doubt she, at best and being generous, has a blindspot for antisemitism.
You don’t have to believe it - the press insisted it was true and kept banging that drum. Aided by the comments of some Jewish Labour MPs who quit and made those claims
I think you’re being incredibly naive here tbh. There’s a lot of nasties out there on social media. Not to mention the not so subtle dog-whistle messaging in The Mail, Express and Sun.
Of course her race is a factor; so is her gender, and then there’s the fact that she doesn’t conform to most standards of physical beauty. I’m pretty sure the woman gets three times the abuse other public figures get, and that’s certainly not all down to a tendency to put her foot in her mouth.
I don't disagree. Not my favourite MP. But I do see her as a last vestige of the left in the party. The left side of Labour is the part I vote for. She is part of a quite sinister cleanse of dissenting voices.
I appreciate that stance and nobody can deny she’s had to work much harder to get to where she is than her peers.
Genuine question, is there anything left for you to vote for there? Do you not think Starmer will inevitably move to the left once he’s won?
I will vote the Tory party out. I think Starmer is a better Tory than any of the current Tories and the nation will be better off. I think we will take a decent step to the left - but only because the Conservatives had moved so far to the right. Honestly, this is not going to be a party that renationalises and bans landlordism - so it will fall short of what I think this country needs.
Fair enough, I don’t disagree with any of that. Are there any MPs left in the party that you do feel represent your politics?
I'm not denying that some people think that way, and you're right that her gender and looks will also be a factor. I probably worded it slightly badly, because I do think there's a tendency to shut down discussion in the sense of 'if you don't agree with my perspective it's because you're racist/transphobic/a genocide supporter/a misogynist/homophobic' (delete as appropriate), which is hugely problematic right now (and does stem from a righteousness of some from the lefter leaning crowd).
I am absolutely not suggesting that Loading was doing that at all, but I just feel a bit more aware of that line of discussion-killing at the moment. So yes, probably over reacted to that, but it has its roots in a good place. The cancellation of valid and robust discussion on those grounds is a very bad path that we're headed down currently.
Starmer’s not a Tory. The Tory Lite jibes had some traction with Blair, though Blair had Brown, and Brown is Labour to his core. I’m hoping Starmer will prove to be to the left of both Blair and Brown, though every bit as much of a pragmatist
I probably have some agreement with Nandy and Raynor. The rest of the Labour front bench could be the 90s Tory front bench!
Who knows anymore though? The whole lot know if you step out of line you get crushed.
We aren't a million miles apart in view. What got Abbott shut down was making a comment comparing lived experience for races. And just mentioning that lived experience might be different for people who look different has cost her her political career. That is the true power of political correctness - it can be abused to quiet the voices of those already disenfranchised. Like Abbott. Or a Palestinian.
I think that’s how it should be. Racism and intolerance because of one’s religion, race or political persuasion is just wrong full stop. Regardless of your own colour or beliefs.
Those protesting in universities under the guise of peace are spewing some of the most vile and hateful rhetoric you could imagine. But they justify it because they view everything in a very binary way of oppressed vs oppressor.