For me, that is the heart of a more left-leaning society. It is saying "this policy is not right for me personally, but I see it could benefit society".
Labour are very centrist. You don't have to lean very far left to vote that way.
Off Topic Politics Thread
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Labour are very centrist. You don't have to lean very far left to vote that way.
I get that. My concern is that the ‘progressives’ are pushing centrist people further right. That’s how I feel, but I also feel like I can’t vote Tory.
Progressive ideas fill 95% of social media but impact 0.001% of your life. I would hate to see anyone basing their vote on that stuff.
You’re absolutely right. But if you’re in that targeted cross section of the 0.001% it can feel limiting.
But I very much agree with your general point.
Fair point about the global recession. Actually thinking back, I turned 18 smack bang in the middle of it and the 2010 GE, the first one I could vote in, happened just before I turned 19. And the fact was I was seeing horrendous stats about people my age who couldn't find work. It was a truly horrible time for people of my age (as it was for older people I'm sure) and there was a mutual hatred of Labour and Brown with me and my friends. Back then, it was black and white for me, Labour had to go and those memories have made me dislike Labour. Maybe it's somewhat unfortunate that all this happened just as I was preparing for my first GE. The first GE you vote in will inevitably have a huge influence on political opinions going forwards and I will really find it difficult to vote Labour. But like I say, assuming Labour get in I will give them a chance to earn my vote in future elections, but I can't vote for them until they can prove to me they can run the country without hurting the UK economy. As the Tories have been in power ever since they're yet to have that chance. My trust of politicians is at an all time low thanks to Boris and his crew, then the farce of Truss, now Sunak so I'm inclined to skip the next GE, see how Labour get on and then go from there.
Your last sentence is a little bizarre and confusing. If a party has made a complete **** up of things (and importantly has shown now indication or even desire to fix them) then you should be expected to vote against them. And in most cases in General Elections people should be voting for who they think should be in government and has a chance of being so. Which in our current system until there is reform is Labour. Perhaps a tactical vote to get the Tories out
And if Labour are as Tory lite as many are saying then it really shouldn’t prove too much of a jump to vote for them instead. Especially if the alternative is literally more of the same rather than just an assumption is might be
Why? It simply means I won't vote for them. Besides, if I want to get the Tories out I'll be voting Lib Dem anyway, being based in Winchester. Problem solved!
I appreciate your feelings, and I understand only too well how things were back in 2010, although Gordon Brown might well have edged the election were it not for “Bigotgate”.
The thing is though, someone has to win the next election, and while you can’t affect the overall outcome you could certainly help to get rid of a sitting Tory MP in Winchester by voting Lib Dem. That’s exactly what I’ll be doing in Frome and East Somerset. Sadly I can’t use my vote to get rid of my current MP James Heappey as we’re being moved from Wells to another Tory seat.
Edit: Just seen your reply to Greg’s post. Good!
Come on guys. Rishi sunak is a saints fan.
Is this really even a debate?
Is this really even a debate?
There's no debate he's an arsehole first class with bar. His latest faux pas a trans jibe at Starmer whilst Brianna Ghey's mother was watching PMQs from gallery.
The biggest harm done to the UK economy since the global recession was the brexit vote and it's imbecilic implementation. Lib Dem your best option in Winchester I think you posted earlier.
But he has middle class friends and working class friends. Actually… no working class friends…
Gordon Brown also put forward a strategy to help countries recover from the global economic crisis, a strategy that most of the world followed, except of course for the UK, as the Tories decided to ignore investment and go down the austerity route, which is why after 14 years the country and the people are so ****ed.
Many years on from the crisis one of Osborne’s top financial advisors was quoted as saying that Brown’s financial plan was very good.
People generally fall for the Tory media lies about Labour wasting the country’s money but the bottom line is that whenever they come into power the country is in a hell of a mess and needs to be rebuilt as a result of deliberate underspending and neglect by the Tories.
I have mentioned this analogy before but the two parties are like house owners.
Labour invests in the house, carrying out maintenance when due to offset greater costs of repairs and making it good to live in.
The Tories are the opposite. They don’t invest, they don’t maintain so repairs become more costly and by the time they move out the house they moved into has become a hovel.
This is also somewhat untrue though. In isolation I agree that Brown’s plan was good, and that labour did actually manage the financial crisis pretty well.
However the thing that people miss is that finance is upstream of politics. Stuff happens in the financial world first (most of the time).
Politicians have as much less control over the economy than they want people to believe. What they do instead is manipulate data and statistics to try and hoodwink the general public into thinking they have done something.
Prime example; Sunak trying to claim credit for bringing down inflation. He keeps banging on about it. It’s an outright lie. Inflation has nothing to do with his work. It’s mostly to do with the Fed and BoE raising interest rates.
Both parties are guilty of lying. It’s worth saying because whilst people argue the toss about labour vs. Tory, the reality is they are both guilty of horrendous mismanagement of the country’s finance over decades and decades.
Both parties debase the currency and steal from the citizens whilst simultaneously providing less & less value.
Garry Kasparov was once (in)famously banned from the ballot because, after clearing all of the other hurdles for ballot access, he and his supporters needed to rent a venue that could host at least 500 people. And rather strangely, every such venue in Russia suddenly realized that it was booked full. Including one that had already agreed to provide space and then discovered it was a grave clerical error on their part.
Hmm… they are both guilty?
I have been alive since 1979. For 13 years of that time Labour were in power. For 31 years the Conservatives.
There is no ‘they are both the same’. The tories have been in charge THIS TIME longer than Labour in the totality of that period. They have mismanaged the country more heinously in those 14 years than any previous government.
You can believe Labour did a bad job. Fine. But let’s not draw any kind of equivalence. Everyone needs to be open with themselves that the party in power now is the worst manifestation of a British government for at least 150 years.
I actually agree with both of you (Yep I agree with O's on the Politics thread
)In your example, you were born in 1979 (you nipper snapper). That was when the Conservatives came into power, so your results are slightly skewed as one party will always take over from the other. In the previous 14 years, I believe Labour were in for 9 of them (including 5 immediately preceding 1979).
What I mean is that there will always be a change in government due to the previous government (perceived) mismanagement.
HOWEVER, this was more so the case up to about 2016. This was before social media/internet had taken over the world. Nowadays, we sometimes do not know the truth - there is sp much misinformation out there that even non-political people jump on to the 'They are all the same' bandwagon.
I totally agree that the Tories have totally mismanaged everything in the last 7-8 years. But Politics is cyclical, in about 10 years (after 2 Labour governments) we will probably say the same about them (well not some on here lol), as the country will need a change. Or think it does.
I am all in on this post, except the last line perhaps. Maybe that is a bit too sensational for me.
I truly believe that any government has only a small influence on the economy due to it being so tied to the global economy and world events.
We can though shoot ourselves in the foot though and implement Brexit.
I am convinced we will never see ineptitude of the levels we have seen from these Tories again in my lifetime. They have been staggeringly bad.I actually agree with both of you (Yep I agree with O's on the Politics thread
In your example, you were born in 1979 (you nipper snapper). That was when the Conservatives came into power, so your results are slightly skewed as one party will always take over from the other. In the previous 14 years, I believe Labour were in for 9 of them (including 5 immediately preceding 1979).
What I mean is that there will always be a change in government due to the previous government (perceived) mismanagement.
HOWEVER, this was more so the case up to about 2016. This was before social media/internet had taken over the world. Nowadays, we sometimes do not know the truth - there is sp much misinformation out there that even non-political people jump on to the 'They are all the same' bandwagon.
I totally agree that the Tories have totally mismanaged everything in the last 7-8 years. But Politics is cyclical, in about 10 years (after 2 Labour governments) we will probably say the same about them (well not some on here lol), as the country will need a change. Or think it does.
I am all in on this post, except the last line perhaps. Maybe that is a bit too sensational for me.
I truly believe that any government has only a small influence on the economy due to it being so tied to the global economy and world events.
We can though shoot ourselves in the foot though and implement Brexit.
Yep, hence my dilemma in my vote. Morally, no way I can vote Tory, but there is some niggling thing holding me back from Labour.
Maybe it is the right wing press that subliminally are in my mind? Something about Sir Kier I don't get. What I will say though is that if I am ever going to vote Labour this will be it as they are so near to centre, that maybe they are even totally centre.