Off Topic Politics Thread

[saintlyhero]

I was intrigued to read that the police will be handing out leaflets regarding the protests in support of Palestine which advise what chants may be criminal. There will also interpreters to identify those chanting in another language. I find this quite disconcerting, especially as the pro-Palestine protesters largely have the backing of the general public. Amongst the Muslim population, I would suggest that support must be reaching 100% with some communities coming down in coach loads to show their support. Given just significant the Muslim population is in the UK, I really feel that their voice is not listened to and always considerd by the media to be unreasonable. In the case of support for Palestine, they are very much in the mainstream. It does seem like the taking away of our liberties and the right to free speach.

I cannot recall an instance where both the government in power and the main opposition party have been at odds with public opinion. Most people are calling for a ceasefire which is not at all controversial or unreasonable. I do not feel that a call for sronger action agaist Israel would be controversial either. Having come back from Qatar last week and seen the widespread support for Palestine there, I do feel a bit ashamed of the UK where the support have been on the streets yet the political will to back this up is not only lacking but also hostile to public consensus.

Whilst free speech is very important and I don’t exactly know which chants are on the unacceptable list. I don’t think it unreasonable to request people to not call for the eradication of the state of Israel or any other calls to arms which a minority of protestors have been recorded doing.

Qatar has played a vital role in peace negotiations and its fantastic to see a ceasefire and freeing of hostages at long last

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

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If this was a labour MP the right wing rags would print it for weeks.

The trouble is, the original assertion that none of the “right wing” papers care is absolute rubbish. These things, annoyingly, do need to be checked, not just believed because they might side with what we think (worth asking why we think that too…)

Cleverly admits aiming ‘s***’ jibe at Labour MP but not Stockton https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3c3e20ca-8958-11ee-947e-24524bf233d8?shareToken=5377fa3d702fab27c606d503b832b784

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/11/23/james-cleverly-language-apology-labour-mp/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-Cleverly-Stockton-swearing-Theresa-May.html

 

[Osvaldorama]

So it isn't a terrorist attack or is it? The police say no but you know better hysterically posting the sort of bollocks that the alt right used to provoke the riot.

Allegedly an Algerian man, previously arrested on knife offences & waiting to be deported. Waiting for confirmation but this is from people on the ground.

It was also an Irish bloke that originally stopped him, and was then assisted by a Brazilian chap.

Both of them are heroes. But the media are trying their hardest to portray it as just the Brazilian immigrant preventing the attack for damage limitation purposes, while focusing on the protests instead of the real issue.

Why was there an unhinged and dangerous person stabbing children instead of being deported? The Irish have every right to be furious.

 

[StJabbo1]

Allegedly an Algerian man, previously arrested on knife offences & waiting to be deported. Waiting for confirmation but this is from people on the ground.

It was also an Irish bloke that originally stopped him, and was then assisted by a Brazilian chap.

Both of them are heroes. But the media are trying their hardest to portray it as just the Brazilian immigrant preventing the attack for damage limitation purposes, while focusing on the protests instead of the real issue.

Why was there an unhinged and dangerous person stabbing children instead of being deported? The Irish have every right to be furious.

Whatever nationality or history it's not a terrorist attack and shouldn't be described as such. Of course people have a right to be angry. If it's as you say the attacker should have been in detention before being deported. Nothing condones the far right instigated riots, violence and looting, no excuses whatsoever.

 

[Gregm1988]

I’m trying to imagine what a reaction would be to violent protests from a more left leaning crowd would be as a reaction to an act of violence carried out that they thought needed to be protested against

And where certain people would stand with regards to that and whether they’d be saying that those rioting had every right to be furious

Except I don’t have to imagine. I know what would he happening because it is what did happen among those who disagreed - explanations would be being made as to why they didn’t have every right to be angry.

As mentioned - there is no justification for the riots or protests or whatever you want to call them. Although both issues should being focused on I expect the reason the details have been withheld is because mere rumours of them were seemingly enough to trigger mobs. Confirmation might well have lead to more. And if that is what the authorities believed - they don’t appear to have been wrong

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

I’m trying to imagine what a reaction would be to violent protests from a more left leaning crowd would be as a reaction to an act of violence carried out that they thought needed to be protested against

And where certain people would stand with regards to that and whether they’d be saying that those rioting had every right to be furious

Except I don’t have to imagine. I know what would he happening because it is what did happen among those who disagreed - explanations would be being made as to why they didn’t have every right to be angry.

As mentioned - there is no justification for the riots or protests or whatever you want to call them. Although both issues should being focused on I expect the reason the details have been withheld is because mere rumours of them were seemingly enough to trigger mobs. Confirmation might well have lead to more. And if that is what the authorities believed - they don’t appear to have been wrong

Trouble with the whole protest in Ireland is that mostly, it was just used as an excuse to fight the police, set fire to things and to stock up on trainers.
I can understand that people were outraged by the knife attack and rightly so, but I don't understand what they hoped to achieve by rioting.

 

[saintlyhero]

Similar to the 2011 London riots, just turned into an excuse for a bit of anarchy and retail therapy.

 

[StJabbo1]

More brexshit benefits, we'll all pull together.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...th-even-less-than-previously-thought-obr-says
"The UK’s flagship trans-Pacific trade deal, which was presented as a cornerstone of post-Brexit “global Britain”, will deliver even less benefit to the economy than the tiny uplift that was previously predicted, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility.

In a report accompanying last week’s autumn statement, the OBR said the UK’s entry into the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) would add just 0.04% to GDP in the “long run”, which it defines as after 15 years of membership.

The OBR said two separate bilateral deals between the UK and Australia and New Zealand, also hailed as landmark trade agreements post-Brexit, “might increase the level of real GDP by a combined 0.1% by 2035”.

 

[Osvaldorama]

I’m trying to imagine what a reaction would be to violent protests from a more left leaning crowd would be as a reaction to an act of violence carried out that they thought needed to be protested against

And where certain people would stand with regards to that and whether they’d be saying that those rioting had every right to be furious

Except I don’t have to imagine. I know what would he happening because it is what did happen among those who disagreed - explanations would be being made as to why they didn’t have every right to be angry.

As mentioned - there is no justification for the riots or protests or whatever you want to call them. Although both issues should being focused on I expect the reason the details have been withheld is because mere rumours of them were seemingly enough to trigger mobs. Confirmation might well have lead to more. And if that is what the authorities believed - they don’t appear to have been wrong

When the BLM George Floyd riots happened there were many people that were saying “violent protests are the voice of the unheard” and justifying it. Same when pro-Palestine attacked police. Now those same people are condemning the Irish protests as some sort of far right atrocity.

Well - no one asked the Irish (or the rest of Europe) if they want open door policy migration. This is just the voice of the unheard.

 

[Archers Road]

Whilst free speech is very important and I don’t exactly know which chants are on the unacceptable list. I don’t think it unreasonable to request people to not call for the eradication of the state of Israel or any other calls to arms which a minority of protestors have been recorded doing.

Qatar has played a vital role in peace negotiations and its fantastic to see a ceasefire and freeing of hostages at long last

Was listening to a Qatari journalist on LBC today. The guy’s a cousin of the royal rulers or something, but he still spoke pretty convincingly about Qatar’s role and motivation, and their own human rights problems prior to the WC. They certainly want to be perceived as the positive progressive version of a traditional Arabic state. If there is such a thing; but why shouldn’t there be?

 

[Saintjoey]

The world is polarising so quickly and becoming very policy driven. Netherlands, Argentina, France next? Ireland?…Spain is an utter mess. I think the perception of biased media coverage is pushing central people further to whichever side they might lean.

Interesting article in the FT this week suggests that both UK and US public opinion is still with Israel. In the case of the US, it has strengthened in the past couple of weeks. It suggests the extremely vocal minority isn’t as representative as it seems and that can get lost in the noise.

What is clear is that the 18-24 tik tok generation lean heavily to the left on just about all issues (some of which they can’t answer the most basic of questions on). Not surprising but interesting.

I’d imagine public opinion is much more negative when it comes to Israel’s behaviour in the West Bank but it doesn’t go into that detail.

In more uplifting news, our family friend’s grandchild was released by Hamas this evening. 200 left to go.

We can but pray for peace on all sides. I still cannot see how that can be achieved as long as Hamas has a foothold in Gaza.

 

[StJabbo1]

When the BLM George Floyd riots happened there were many people that were saying “violent protests are the voice of the unheard” and justifying it. Same . Now those same people are condemning the Irish protests as some sort of far right atrocity.

Well - no one asked the Irish (or the rest of Europe) if they want open door policy migration. This is just the voice of the unheard.

So where is this open door migration policy, which counties have open borders? When and where did pro-Palestines attack police? Was it at the cenotaph? It was the far right online calls to get tooled up in Dublin followed by those that were looking for a ruck and stocking up on trainers. As has been pointed out before the Irish riots, violence and looting isn't protesting by any stretch of the imagination. Are you condoning that behaviour?

 

[StJabbo1]

Everyone's got god on their side.

 

[......loading......]

I an very uneasy about the easy legitimisation of taking hostages by Hamas. If they are taking them as a terrorist organisation they need to be dealt with in the harshest terms. If they are taking them as a government then this is a war crime.

Using the kidnap of children to free prisoners who have stabbed and attacked Israelis is swinging me away from supporting Lebanon in any sense. In fact it is nauseating that this isn’t getting called out in the press.

 

[StJabbo1]

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[Saintjoey]

I an very uneasy about the easy legitimisation of taking hostages by Hamas. If they are taking them as a terrorist organisation they need to be dealt with in the harshest terms. If they are taking them as a government then this is a war crime.

Using the kidnap of children to free prisoners who have stabbed and attacked Israelis is swinging me away from supporting Lebanon in any sense. In fact it is nauseating that this isn’t getting called out in the press.

The suggestion of some sort of equivalence is bordering on repulsive.

 

[San Tejón]

An interesting explanation on the migration figures.

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[shoot_spiderman]

How would you plan to reduce recidivism? How much money would need to be spent? How many victims of crime are ok in your eyes before you say, you know what? This person cannot/will not be rehabilitated?

I think there needs to be a culture shift back to the idea that prison is a place of punishment rather than a one stop health/mental health/educational/vocational training facility

I’m sorry but rehabilitation has been proven many times. You can choose to ignore it
Prison IS a place of punishment
This argument that advocates for rehab are soft on crime is nonsense
I want prison money spent on reducing crime, the punishment is already there it’s being locked up and having your freedom and choice taken away
This prison is a holiday camp nonsense is bollocks. Prisoners mental health is often awful. I’ve never met anyone that liked it. It encourages criminality

I’m done

 

[tomw24]

I’m sorry but rehabilitation has been proven many times. You can choose to ignore it
Prison IS a place of punishment
This argument that advocates for rehab are soft on crime is nonsense
I want prison money spent on reducing crime, the punishment is already there it’s being locked up and having your freedom and choice taken away
This prison is a holiday camp nonsense is bollocks. Prisoners mental health is often awful. I’ve never met anyone that liked it. It encourages criminality

I’m done

This. Schemes like the one in the link below do a huge amount in preventing reoffending. Unfortunately there are nowhere near enough of such schemes.

Ian Wright: Former Arsenal striker on prison coaching scheme - BBC Sport

 

[shoot_spiderman]

This. Schemes like the one in the link below do a huge amount in preventing reoffending. Unfortunately there are nowhere near enough of such schemes.

Ian Wright: Former Arsenal striker on prison coaching scheme - BBC Sport

Thanks for the research Tom
I’m away and don’t have the time

Lock em up philosophy is based on criminals are evil ****bags theory
Most people are capable of being good when given a chance, simplistically
Some people aren’t fixable but not the numbers we imprison
I’ve seen change many times