They aren't dealing with Hamas, though. They are going to kill tens of thousands of civilians, while further depriving two million more already badly deprived people, and in so doing they will ensure that Hamas is as or more popular than ever. This playbook has never worked, anywhere. You can't brutalize a civilian population into stopping an insurgency, it will only lead to more insurgents.
Off Topic Politics Thread
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Love 'em we make ours a spicier than the traditional recipe.
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I'm a bit disappointed it's taken until now for a comment but I can always rely on you Jabbo
.There was a post above that mentioned chopping wood and I was of course referring to this and not the type of ***got usually accompanied by an onion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/***go...alled a short ***got,was also called a nicket.
Yes I knew that. I was tempted to post re billets having lived in a Chilterns village for many years, lots of bodging going on. A pub in the village, the Crooked Billet was affectionately known as Nobbies.I'm a bit disappointed it's taken until now for a comment but I can always rely on you Jabbo
There was a post above that mentioned chopping wood and I was of course referring to this and not the type of ***got usually accompanied by an onion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/***got_(unit)#:~:text=Sometimes called a short ***got,was also called a nicket.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billet_(wood) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodging
That made me wonder why pubs are called "The Crooked Billet" and came across this.
Quote:
Crooked Billet - It is a popular misconception that pub signs came along to illustrate the name of the pub, when actually it was the other way around. In ancient Roman times, taverna keepers would hang out a bunch of grapes to show locals that the harvest was in. Much later, english taverns also wanted a way to draw attention to themselves, so they would hang something outside as a sort of reference point for travellers. One of the most primitive and simple of which was a Crooked Billet (a billet was a big old stick fallen from a tree), so that medieval travellers' could be told: "If thee travelleth west from London toward that fair town of Bracknell. Thou shalt after a few hours come across an inn with a crooked billet outside, and there wilt thou be made most welcome, before continuing thy journey to the new Siemens Computers Head Quarters". Or something.
That'd be down in sillicone valley we's up in them hills in the dark woods.
Let's agree to disagree on this.
I agree and this is sickening. Equally, condemnation should be placed on Egypt for restricting aid and keeping their borders closed. Lebanon who, instead of negotiating with Israel to open aid corridors, decided to attack Israeli borders.
Point being, there are other countries who have helped escalate the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Yet they aren't widely (if at all) discussed and they certainly won't be remembered after this conflict.
I agree with you here too. But what options have been left? They had left Gaza in 2005, they were increasing work permits for those in Gaza and they were working towards closer Arab relations in general. If Hamas hadn't attacked, then in all likelihood Netanyahu would have been ousted opening up the possibility for more reforms. Hamas don't want peace with Israel (more specifically the Jews) as has been made abundantly clear by the actions on the 7th (the bodycam footage from the Hamas fighters really rams this home).
Hamas is a dictatorship. They are extremely well funded yet very little is spent on governing Gaza.
How do yo deal with a dictatorship who cares little about the people they govern? Who's sole purpose is the extermination of another race? Who launches indiscriminate terror attacks? And does all of this whilst happening to be your nextdoor neighbour.
The brutal truth is the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is created and used by Hamas to provide justification for their actions, to generate income for their cause and to get support from Western countries. It is not in their interest to see things get better and so they don't.
Do you believe Hamas will be destroyed? Even massively weakened? I certainly don't.
Hamas was actually elected initially. It happened as part of a strategy by the Netanyahu government to divide and conquer, propping up Hamas to weaken Fatah and make it impossible for the Palestinians to negotiate as one and thus scuttle a two-state solution.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
That's the thing, though. Gaza isn't their next-door neighbour in a geopolitical sense. If they were, the Gazans would actually be able to operate like, y'know, a country. They cannot. They are, by design, completely dependent on Israel for all services. They cannot leave or export or import goods without Israeli approval, their power, food and water supplies are regularly suspended at the whims of the Israeli government, and the civilian toll from Israeli attacks on Palestinians vastly exceeds that of Palestinian attacks on Israel.
If Gaza was their next-door neighbour, these things would constitute declarations of war. Given that Gaza is not a country, though, they're just collective punishment: a crime against humanity.
And if you think that further brutalizing them is going to end the attacks, then, I mean, there's the whole of human history to point at of that failing miserably. People do not generally respond well to being brutalized.
I'm sorry, this is grossly inaccurate. The humanitarian crisis is caused by Gaza being an open-air prison where 2m people are fenced into a tiny space with zero resources or means to better themselves. Their houses can be, and frequently are, razed to the ground or simply taken at any time, for any reason, both in Gaza and in the West Bank. Yeah, being the third generation imprisoned in that fashion makes people a mite unhappy with their jailors.
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Nope, I don't. But that's what Israel are trying to do. Given the ease at which Hamas were able to walk into Israel I can understand that Israel want as much as the infrastructure, tunnels and capability of death that Hamas can cause off the table.
Hitler was elected initially that didn't make the Nazi regime any less a dictatorship.
https://fsi.stanford.edu/news/terrorism-terrorism
But they are in a real physical sense which is the issue.
I certainly do not think that. If I've given that impression then I'm sorry, but far from it as I've always hoped for a two-state solution. My point is Hamas don't want peace and for them, the worse conditions in Gaza, the better for them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47616809
This is precisely what makes this situation so complex, in that you're both right.
Hamas doesn't want peace. I don't think it matters if Hamas wants peace, though, because the Israeli government holds all the cards, and the Israeli government has no interest in peace, either. Hamas has the power to kill some civilians, and it should be condemned for doing so...it accomplishes nothing. Israel has the power to blockade Gaza for decades at a time while ethnically cleansing the West Bank in order to expand its own borders. That's a massive power differential.
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St Jerome should think himself lucky, being put straight by a Canadian living in Canada. Although he is married to an Israeli and visits the country to see his wife's family why would St Jerome know more about what's going on there and not just read about it on the internet? Schad's arrogance knows no bounds.
**** joins ****s on psuedo news channel.
Share Message - Boris Johnson: Former prime minister to host GB News show
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67242822
Share Message - Boris Johnson: Former prime minister to host GB News show
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67242822
Exactly. Every orphaned kid or kid who lost their brother, sister, whatever is going to grow up one day and when they do, they're potential radicalised extremists willing to commit atrocities against Israel. The day of the terrorist attack took place, I was watching BBC news and they'd mentioned that there were groups of Palestinian students who had been offered places at various international universities but were not allowed to leave by Israel, and it got me thinking, like if you grow up in Palestine and maybe you're taught keep your head down, do well in school and good things will happen to you... And then you do all that, you do the right thing and yet it doesn't matter because of some arbitrary reason. Like, I could understand those students being angry. Maybe some of them might even turn to terrorism, I wouldn't condone it nor say it's justified but it's blindingly obvious that if people have something to lose, they're less likely to turn to terrorism and vice versa. I feel unless they're idiots, Benjamin and co understand so this so my theory is they're using hamas to make them appear a strong, decisive leader and boost their popularity among conservatives. That's why they don't care about potentially radicalising civilians through their use of indiscriminate force.
So you shouldn't comment on trans people going by that? C'mon...
This is such a bizarre take.
Although not occurring here, anecdotal and emotional views are often wrong.
Both Schad and St Jerome have made some excellent and respectful posts on an incredibly nuanced subject.
Your contribution on the other hand is bitter drivel.
And we're talking three (or more) generations in many instances who have been stateless refugees in Gaza. 70% of the population are classified as refugees. It's hard to convince people that they simply need to keep their heads down and work toward something when they have living proof all around them of it coming to nothing, and there are few people in Gaza that haven't experienced profound loss...of their homes, of people they know, with zero recourse because they basically exist in a land with no real legal system, given that it's not a state, but also not governed by the laws of Israel. If your home is destroyed, or a loved one is shot by snipers, well...tough break, better luck next time.
Hopelessness, anger and idleness -- given that Gaza basically hasn't had an economy since the blockade was initiated 15 years ago, the unemployment rate is astronomical -- is a breeding ground for extremism, and no amount of bombing is going to fix that.