Off Topic Politics Thread

[Ian Thumwood]

If I had a magic wand and unlimited budget, I'd take the following steps to try and recover faith in the police.

1) Basic Law lessons at school. Explain fully what the police can/can't do. Explain how police can escalate their use of force to match yours. Explain how even if the police are wrong the place to fight it is court
2) Release BWV of an incident straight away post incident
3) A royal commission on policing. What do the public actually want? If its attending every burglary/shoplifter, great. But Explain that cannot be done whilst attending all and every MH incident. Enshrine in law priorities.
4) Making being a police officer a serious aggrevating condition if any crimes are committed. Double sentences for police officers due to the nature of the role.
5) Invite senior public critics (I'm looking at you MP's and media moguls) and get them to a police training centre. Invite them to restrain an individual who doesn't want to be handcuffed and put in a vehicle. Get them to do it in one's and twos and film it. Remind them after the event that they were restraining someone not trying to take their head off and not off their ****ing face on gear. Film it and every time they decide to flap their gums post it underneath their tweet.


There's loads more but **** it

I agree with most of this but I would like more officers recruited from the black community. It is interesting to read some ofthe other opinions posted on this forum as the views are quite varied. For me, the issue will ony be resolved when we solve the problems which cause crime such as poverty , lack of opportunities and racism. There is often a disconnect from mainstream society which is understandable when there seem to be so many restrictions within the broadly white population.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/09/27/the-real-reason-they-hate-gb-news/

"It won’t stop the pile-on, though. And that’s because the pile-on isn’t really about Laurence Fox. Or Ava Evans. Or sexism. It’s about the virtual left’s burning hate for GB News. Their prim horror that there exists a news channel that thinks differently to them. Their staggeringly entitled belief that they should never have to see ‘unwoke’ commentary on TV. The Fox scandal is a Trojan horse for the longstanding urge of middle-class authoritarians to take GB News down.

Consider their frenzied condemnation of GB News as a cesspit of misogyny. Who are they kidding? For the woke left to call other people sexist is an act of industrial-strength chutzpah.


These are the people who fight for the right of men to strip off in women’s changing rooms. Who think rapists should be in women’s jails. Who turned a blind eye, or even nodded along, when Róisín Murphy was ferociously set upon by misogynists in gowns for the crime of criticising puberty blockers. Who said nowt when Kellie-Jay Keen was assaulted by a feral sexist mob in New Zealand. Who kept schtum when ex-con turned trans activist ‘Sarah Jane’ Baker told a crowd in London that if they see a TERF they should ‘punch them in the ****ing face’. Who are fine with the hounding and censure of women like Maya Forstater, Kathleen Stock, Julie Bindel and far too many others to mention, all for the wrongthink of believing sex is real.

Yes, Fox’s comments were loathsome – but so is the hypocrisy of these privileged virtue-signallers who spend their days siding with bepenised people against women and then think they can get on their high horse over a sexist jibe on a news channel. Get real, fellas."

That's....well....that's not true.

 

[LincolnSaint]

The reports I had read a;; stated that Chris Kaba's car was boxed in by the police so he was unable to move the car. There was no attempt to ram the police cars. I believe a police officer got out of his car and fired a shot at point blank range through the windscreen which instantly killed Mr Kaba. My understanding was the the whole incident from the blocking in of the car that was being pursued to the shooting was a matter of seconds and it is unlikely that the police could have faced let alone assessed a risk to life incident that necessitated Mr Kaba's life being terminated in such a miniscule time frame . The period of the officer leaving his car to firing the fatal shot was supposedly less than 5 seconds. There was no record of Mr Kaba being armed in any shape or form and it would appear that no warning was issued to Mr Kaba prior to him being shot. This smacks of an extra-judicial killing.

The link to "The Critic" piece is interesting because it mentions Mr Kaba's association with crime. As far as I know, this has not been mentioned at all in any of the mainstream media. The only element of criminality appertained to the car which was no owned by Mr Kaba which was alleged to have been associated with a fire arms incident. At worse, he could have been driving the car with no insurance. I totally agree with Bell Rebeiro- Addy's comment that....

"The press have said he was a drill artist, as if that’s a way of justifying why he may have found himself in that situation, or that he’d been arrested before. But we have to realise that with our justice system, if you’re Black, from a working-class background, you’re more likely to go to jail. "

For me, this is the nub of the problem. The statistics for convictions against people of colour and the percentage of black people in jail is totally out of step with the proportions of race within society. If you are black, the police will utlimately "get you" if you commit a crime. If you resist arrest, there is a good chance there will be a threat to life. I am not condoning criminality. However, I think that the way the police dispense justice is a two tier system and the fact that Mr Kaba's life was considered by the police officer's assigned to the case to have been worthless is demonstrated by the events. White people like to pretend that the police enforce the law and that you have nothing to fear if you have done nothing wrong. They have confidence in our police services. I do not believe that people of colour, espeially from the Black / Aftica / West Indian backgrounds would feel quite so assured when we are repeatedly seeing instances when the people who are being killed by the police are largely from their own community. I whole-heartedly subscribe to the idea of no justice, no peace. I cannot understand how any upstanding and right-thinking person of whatever colour could feel different. The swiftness with which the incident took place shows the total lack of due deligence and professionalism in the manner in which the police carried out this operation. The other fire arms officer's are totally wrong to support their colleague and the fact they have downed tools in sympathy undrscores exactly why Black people can have no confidence in the police. This amounts to a shoot-to-kill policy- regardless if we are talking about murder or manslaughter.

Total bollocks with absolutely no evidence to back it up whatsoever.

You and I have absolutely no idea what happened that night but you've made up your own narrative and by God you're going to run with it regardless of what other eye witnesses have said. This is an ongoing case- the mods are going to have to be really careful with your last 2 posts and your version of events

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Lincoln

The comments I have posted have come from reading mainstream media articles (most likely BBC) on this and following the Kaba family's website on line. What I have posted is common knowledge.

 

[LincolnSaint]

I meant to add, by all means talk about policing/armed policing as a whole but this specific case should really be left alone until after court proceedings

 

[LincolnSaint]

Lincoln

The comments I have posted have come from reading mainstream media articles (most likely BBC) on this and following the Kaba family's website on line. What I have posted is common knowledge.

I'm sure the families website is completely objective

 

[ChilcoSaint]

The reports I had read a;; stated that Chris Kaba's car was boxed in by the police so he was unable to move the car. There was no attempt to ram the police cars. I believe a police officer got out of his car and fired a shot at point blank range through the windscreen which instantly killed Mr Kaba. My understanding was the the whole incident from the blocking in of the car that was being pursued to the shooting was a matter of seconds and it is unlikely that the police could have faced let alone assessed a risk to life incident that necessitated Mr Kaba's life being terminated in such a miniscule time frame . The period of the officer leaving his car to firing the fatal shot was supposedly less than 5 seconds. There was no record of Mr Kaba being armed in any shape or form and it would appear that no warning was issued to Mr Kaba prior to him being shot. This smacks of an extra-judicial killing.

The link to "The Critic" piece is interesting because it mentions Mr Kaba's association with crime. As far as I know, this has not been mentioned at all in any of the mainstream media. The only element of criminality appertained to the car which was no owned by Mr Kaba which was alleged to have been associated with a fire arms incident. At worse, he could have been driving the car with no insurance. I totally agree with Bell Rebeiro- Addy's comment that....

"The press have said he was a drill artist, as if that’s a way of justifying why he may have found himself in that situation, or that he’d been arrested before. But we have to realise that with our justice system, if you’re Black, from a working-class background, you’re more likely to go to jail. "

For me, this is the nub of the problem. The statistics for convictions against people of colour and the percentage of black people in jail is totally out of step with the proportions of race within society. If you are black, the police will utlimately "get you" if you commit a crime. If you resist arrest, there is a good chance there will be a threat to life. I am not condoning criminality. However, I think that the way the police dispense justice is a two tier system and the fact that Mr Kaba's life was considered by the police officer's assigned to the case to have been worthless is demonstrated by the events. White people like to pretend that the police enforce the law and that you have nothing to fear if you have done nothing wrong. They have confidence in our police services. I do not believe that people of colour, espeially from the Black / Aftica / West Indian backgrounds would feel quite so assured when we are repeatedly seeing instances when the people who are being killed by the police are largely from their own community. I whole-heartedly subscribe to the idea of no justice, no peace. I cannot understand how any upstanding and right-thinking person of whatever colour could feel different. The swiftness with which the incident took place shows the total lack of due deligence and professionalism in the manner in which the police carried out this operation. The other fire arms officer's are totally wrong to support their colleague and the fact they have downed tools in sympathy undrscores exactly why Black people can have no confidence in the police. This amounts to a shoot-to-kill policy- regardless if we are talking about murder or manslaughter.

I think we should all reserve our judgment on what actually happened in this case until the evidence comes out in court.

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

Posted in error

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

It is so reassuring to to have Braverman confirm what I have always thought which is that the Tory party is actually the National Front in disguise. No wonder all those Brexit supporters were waving their Union Flags. The National Front has stolen our flag, stolen the Tory party and stolen our country.

 

[Osvaldorama]

We need more police and harsher punishments.

As a country we have gone soft and dropped the standards of how to behave.

If anything the Tories are too soft, nothing like the national front.

 

[Archers Road]

We need more police and harsher punishments.

As a country we have gone soft and dropped the standards of how to behave.

If anything the Tories are too soft, nothing like the national front.

We could start with harsh punishments for louts vandalising ULEZ cameras

 

[Osvaldorama]

We could start with harsh punishments for louts vandalising ULEZ cameras

We should start by getting the guillotines out for corrupt politicians that tax the working class to death

 

[......loading......]

We should start by getting the guillotines out for corrupt politicians that tax the working class to death

I think you mean the corrupt landlords who take advantage of the corrupt politicians who decided short term profit was more important than an affordable society. Taxes are only the big problem if you are rich - and then you probably know how to dodge them.

Edit: perhaps one of the greatest tricks in modern times is convincing the poor that taxation does not serve them.

The poor profit the most from tax. The poor need the services provided by tax the most. The poor pay the least in tax. And yet the poor are told taxes are the problem. By whom? By rich newspaper owners.

Someone on minimum wage, earning a paltry £1092 per month will pay £60 per month in tax. That is not their issue.

 

[Osvaldorama]

I think you mean the corrupt landlords who take advantage of the corrupt politicians who decided short term profit was more important than an affordable society. Taxes are only the big problem if you are rich - and then you probably know how to dodge them.

Edit: perhaps one of the greatest tricks in modern times is convincing the poor that taxation does not serve them.

The poor profit the most from tax. The poor need the services provided by tax the most. The poor pay the least in tax. And yet the poor are told taxes are the problem. By whom? By rich newspaper owners.

Someone on minimum wage, earning a paltry £1092 per month will pay £60 per month in tax. That is not their issue.

Couldn’t disagree more.

The government has a spending and overreach problem. Raising taxes will not solve the equation.

Imo calling for higher taxes and socialist policies is a naive viewpoint of someone that fundamentally misunderstands how the economy functions

 

[......loading......]

Couldn’t disagree more.

The government has a spending and overreach problem. Raising taxes will not solve the equation.

Imo calling for higher taxes and socialist policies is a naive viewpoint of someone that fundamentally misunderstands how the economy functions

Ah yes, the I know better approach to debate.

 

[StJabbo1]

Couldn’t disagree more.

The government has a spending and overreach problem. Raising taxes will not solve the equation.

Imo calling for higher taxes and socialist policies is a naive viewpoint of someone that fundamentally misunderstands how the economy functions

Ah yes, the I know better approach to debate.

After thirteen years of tory policy the economy isn't functioning neither is the NHS, social services, the police, prison and probation services, transport, border control etc, etc. The incumbent bunch of incompetents become more and more unelectable day by day. The low tax unchecked Mistruss unfunded budget tanked the economy heaping more humiliation on the tories.

 

[Archers Road]

Couldn’t disagree more.

The government has a spending and overreach problem. Raising taxes will not solve the equation.

Imo calling for higher taxes and socialist policies is a naive viewpoint of someone that fundamentally misunderstands how the economy functions

So you want more police, a more robust justice system, but less tax? How’s that going to work then mate?

 

[......loading......]

So you want more police, a more robust justice system, but less tax? How’s that going to work then mate?

We can cut social care to lazy jobless types and the disabled!

 

[Archers Road]

We can cut social care to lazy jobless types and the disabled!

We seem to have spent 13 years doing that, not sure it’s helped much tbh

 

[......loading......]

We seem to have spent 13 years doing that, not sure it’s helped much tbh

You are too short sighted! We can take even more from them. Also, the 5p each we all spend on the mentally ill needs to go altogether. Being mentally ill is a state of mind and Tate (genuinely) says we can believe ourselves better!