Off Topic Politics Thread
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No real reason you would have. It’s utterly unimportant and has no influence on anything.
A
ah - so the standard target for the right wing media grifters then
If there is one item of news that I feel needs to be addressed on this thread and that has been seriously over-looked it is the murder charge levied against the office who killed Chris Kaba. I have been following the case off and on as the incident is so shocking but this has been exacerbated by the fact that fellow firearms officers have now threatened to down tools in disgust that their collegue is facing such a serious charge. The media coverage (including the BBC) has generally been extremely poor and very biased towards the officer concerned and the police in general. A lot of the coverage has centred on the threatened mass decision for fire arms officers to down tools.
I am really shocked by this news story. Firstly, we know from past experience that the Metropolitan police force is instituationally racist. This is not a subjective views but a genuine fact. In addition, we also know from the recent case of Sarah Everard that our police forces contain a significant proportion of " rotten apples" who are quite prepared to murder the people they are employed to serve and protect. The circumstances of Chris Kaba's needs to be examined as well as he was an innocent man pursued by a team of police officer which culminated in Kaba's car being blocked in and before he was immediately shot in the head a point blank range. I am relieved that the officer has been charged with murder and, on the basis of the facts that have been made public, this feels very much like an execution carried out in public on an innocent man. I would suspect that this is likely to be even more damning that the previous killing of another innocent man, Mark Duggan. The full details will , no doubt , come out in the trial.
I feel that there are two concerning elements in this story. The first is that Chris Kaba's family needs to see justice properly served. The second element is perhaps even more serious insofar that it is clear that the armed police officers are supporting their colleague and now feel that it is acceptable to argue that the risks they undoubtedly encounter obviate the need for them to be subject to the law of the land when they behave in a seemingly criminal fashion. There seems to be no sympathy towards Mr Kaba's family nor any consideration that the police officer was very much in the wrong amd no better than a criminal himself. the media is not being at all balanced. Why is the BBC not questioning this ? Why are our newspapers siding with officers amd not sunbjecting them to scrutiny. I feel that this is an utter disgrace. The media effectively implying that it is ok for officers to kill innocent civilians regardless of the circumstances and not suffer the consequences if they either get things wrong or perpetrate a crime themselves. For me, this is chilling. It is even more frightening that untrained soldiers have been offered to cover for the resultant short fall of fire arm officers. Given the British Army's propensiy for alleged war crimes in Afghanistan and Iraq, it does not take a genius to realise that this will endanger the lives of more civilians in the UK.
In summary, I feel that the officer charged with murder should not be supported by his colleagues, at least in public, until the facts are known. Until the trial is over and the facts have been establisbed, they should remain impartial . To do otherwise is to suggest that they find the actions of their colleague to be acceptable. I also feel that this should be a wake up call in the UK. We have police forces in this country who are effectivley operating a shoot to-kill policy against people of colour - this is regardless of whether they are innocent or not. People on this board are quick to condemn the actions of other countries yet the case of Chris Kaba is demonstrative that our own forces are often not fit for purpose and that people of colour can no longer guarantee that these forces will protect and serve them. I am shocked that something like this can happen in the UK and disgusted that the media continually advocates the difficulty of the firearms officers' job whilst ignoring the far more chilling fate of Mr Kaba.
This is the UK's George Floyd moment albeit I feel that it is actually far worse as Chris Kaba was an innocent civilian and the officers did not even confront his - they merely shot him in cold blood. In my opinion we need to look at the behaviour of our police force and not sweep the issue of brutality against coloured people under the carpet. The law needs to be seen to be done and justice meted out. The officer in question should not escape the consequences of the law as must also be the case of those fellow officer who have condoned his action. I think it is time to defund the police and put measures in place which protect people of all races and creeds. We would condemn this behaviour if it happened in a country like Iran. The fact that it has happened in the UK makes us no better.
I am really shocked by this news story. Firstly, we know from past experience that the Metropolitan police force is instituationally racist. This is not a subjective views but a genuine fact. In addition, we also know from the recent case of Sarah Everard that our police forces contain a significant proportion of " rotten apples" who are quite prepared to murder the people they are employed to serve and protect. The circumstances of Chris Kaba's needs to be examined as well as he was an innocent man pursued by a team of police officer which culminated in Kaba's car being blocked in and before he was immediately shot in the head a point blank range. I am relieved that the officer has been charged with murder and, on the basis of the facts that have been made public, this feels very much like an execution carried out in public on an innocent man. I would suspect that this is likely to be even more damning that the previous killing of another innocent man, Mark Duggan. The full details will , no doubt , come out in the trial.
I feel that there are two concerning elements in this story. The first is that Chris Kaba's family needs to see justice properly served. The second element is perhaps even more serious insofar that it is clear that the armed police officers are supporting their colleague and now feel that it is acceptable to argue that the risks they undoubtedly encounter obviate the need for them to be subject to the law of the land when they behave in a seemingly criminal fashion. There seems to be no sympathy towards Mr Kaba's family nor any consideration that the police officer was very much in the wrong amd no better than a criminal himself. the media is not being at all balanced. Why is the BBC not questioning this ? Why are our newspapers siding with officers amd not sunbjecting them to scrutiny. I feel that this is an utter disgrace. The media effectively implying that it is ok for officers to kill innocent civilians regardless of the circumstances and not suffer the consequences if they either get things wrong or perpetrate a crime themselves. For me, this is chilling. It is even more frightening that untrained soldiers have been offered to cover for the resultant short fall of fire arm officers. Given the British Army's propensiy for alleged war crimes in Afghanistan and Iraq, it does not take a genius to realise that this will endanger the lives of more civilians in the UK.
In summary, I feel that the officer charged with murder should not be supported by his colleagues, at least in public, until the facts are known. Until the trial is over and the facts have been establisbed, they should remain impartial . To do otherwise is to suggest that they find the actions of their colleague to be acceptable. I also feel that this should be a wake up call in the UK. We have police forces in this country who are effectivley operating a shoot to-kill policy against people of colour - this is regardless of whether they are innocent or not. People on this board are quick to condemn the actions of other countries yet the case of Chris Kaba is demonstrative that our own forces are often not fit for purpose and that people of colour can no longer guarantee that these forces will protect and serve them. I am shocked that something like this can happen in the UK and disgusted that the media continually advocates the difficulty of the firearms officers' job whilst ignoring the far more chilling fate of Mr Kaba.
This is the UK's George Floyd moment albeit I feel that it is actually far worse as Chris Kaba was an innocent civilian and the officers did not even confront his - they merely shot him in cold blood. In my opinion we need to look at the behaviour of our police force and not sweep the issue of brutality against coloured people under the carpet. The law needs to be seen to be done and justice meted out. The officer in question should not escape the consequences of the law as must also be the case of those fellow officer who have condoned his action. I think it is time to defund the police and put measures in place which protect people of all races and creeds. We would condemn this behaviour if it happened in a country like Iran. The fact that it has happened in the UK makes us no better.
This came up on the James O’Brien show last week - he was unwilling to discuss the details of the case on his show as it is an active case. This would likely explain why comparatively little has been said in the media about the case itself. The actions of the other firearms officers are connected to the case but can be discussed in their own right. And therefore have been
I don’t feel in a position to comment on the incident itself. That is something for after the trial. And I’m much happier saying that in this case as opposed to people who defend Russell Brand by saying the same (innocent until found guilty in court) because we know there definitely is a case and trial occurring
I agree with the sentiment of your post Ian -
Just a couple of comments
- we have to be careful to allow this police officer to have a fair trial and avoid any media man hunts, but to do this, we have to be certain that the facts around this case will eventually become available to the public.
- without doubt the culture in the police force has to change. Policing in the UK has always been done with the consent of the public and in the recent history the them and us divide has increased. This is not helped when police who are 'dancing at Notting Hill' or 'wearing a PRIDE badge' are criticized as being woke in the media.
- criticizing the army for stepping up is a little harsh. I question the necessity and their preparedness for such a role, but I don't think they are likely to attack the public at least less likely then the police they replaced, and the soldiers themselves had no say in doing it either.
How is this “news channel” even allowing to give a platform to morons.
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They shouldn't have been stood up to start with.
This is a pretty nuanced issue being looked at, as usual with the state of discourse these days, in binary terms.
Firearms officers are asked to put themselves in danger on two fronts. One from being shot and two from the consequences of feeling the need to shoot someone.
I don’t know what happened on the day but evidently a car flagged as being linked to gun crime was stopped and an officer made a call in the space of a few seconds. It was clearly the wrong call and quite probably the officer will be found guilty of murder.
That raises problems in itself. How did it reach the point the officer thought firing was the best call? Was the messaging from his superiors such that he felt there was a heightened sense of danger? If so, how do other officers deal with these situations?
In the last ten years there have been 26 fatal shootings by police. That is clearly too many but still police in the UK are trained to use a gun as a last resort. We don’t have suicide by cop here because you would struggle to find one who would do it.
I think it is okay for a force who are becoming more confused and more endangered to down tools for a little while and ask for clarity. I mean downing a gun seems like it almost always a good thing.
Firearms officers are asked to put themselves in danger on two fronts. One from being shot and two from the consequences of feeling the need to shoot someone.
I don’t know what happened on the day but evidently a car flagged as being linked to gun crime was stopped and an officer made a call in the space of a few seconds. It was clearly the wrong call and quite probably the officer will be found guilty of murder.
That raises problems in itself. How did it reach the point the officer thought firing was the best call? Was the messaging from his superiors such that he felt there was a heightened sense of danger? If so, how do other officers deal with these situations?
In the last ten years there have been 26 fatal shootings by police. That is clearly too many but still police in the UK are trained to use a gun as a last resort. We don’t have suicide by cop here because you would struggle to find one who would do it.
I think it is okay for a force who are becoming more confused and more endangered to down tools for a little while and ask for clarity. I mean downing a gun seems like it almost always a good thing.
In fairness they weren’t. It was just touted as an option, which wasn’t taken up because they didn’t need to.
As you say, lots of nuanced issues around this including the officer was definitely informed the car was linked to a firearms incident. I remain uncertain if others were/are aware Chris Kaba had served time for possession of firearms and bladed item offences, or indeed if the officer who killed him had this info.
Chris Kaba certainly did not deserve to die and his family deserves justice. However the 'taking sides' mentality that surrounds such tragic incidents just feeds extreme views from all sides imo.
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Jesus lap dancing christ. You could not be more wrong in 99% of this post. Happy to add my tuppence worth on this specific case after the
The option to carry firearms is voluntary. If an officer isn't in the right head space to carry then he/she has every right not to draw weapons prior to the start of their shift. I appreciate that the politics thread is generally a left leaning space but **** me, defund the police? This is another nonsense carry over from the good old US of A where their police departments are buying up surplus military stock. If the police in England are Wales were any further defunded there'd be none left.
AFO's are not paid more than there unarmed counterparts. It is a voluntary role which is subject to more scrutiny then anywhere else in the world.
If there was an aspect of your job which was entirely voluntary, didn't pay any more money and if you do it (even correctly) you could end up in front of jury of 12 people who may or may not hate your guts because of the uniform you wear, and could spend the rest of your life in prison for a split second decision you made years before, would you volunteer? Honestly?
It is Derry, please. Only the BBC and Government call it by its "conquest" name!
Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?
I am pretty sure we are saying similar things!He is a total total complete arse, but what really pisses me off on top of this is that Ana Santina Evans really was out of order and showed a dismissive attitude to the topic of male welfare, she was due some reasonable criticism. (I was even sad enough to complain to the BBC for the first time ever about it).
But now because of that cnob kheese, there will be no serious discussion about the dismissive attitude shown towards men’s physical and mental health in the original programming.
Congrats Lawrence, you absolute tool.
Dan Wootton suspended from GB News. Well, there’s a thing…