Off Topic Politics Thread

[Onionman]

The electoral commission reports that the government's efforts to disenfranchise non-Tory voters* has worked well.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...dog-issues-damning-verdict-on-voter-id-impact

Stopping people voting; what a ****ing triumph!

Vin

* Publicly admitted by Rees-Mogg

 

[milton archer]

BJ and LBJ are equally horrible characters.!!

A few years ago the term "cockwomble" surfaced on this forum, I think it describes BJ perfectly (and I not even sure that I know what it means!)

 

[StJabbo1]

The electoral commission reports that the government's efforts to disenfranchise non-Tory voters* has worked well.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...dog-issues-damning-verdict-on-voter-id-impact

Stopping people voting; what a ****ing triumph!

Vin

* Publicly admitted by Rees-Mogg

Damned indeed.
"The current voter-ID system is, as it stands, a ‘poisoned cure’ in that it disenfranchises more electors than it protects."

"Such a damning verdict from the official body for elections risks considerable embarrassment for ministers, who have repeatedly refused to engage with similar concerns from charities and other groups about the impact of voter ID.

However, in its own statement about the report, the Department for Levelling Up, which has responsibility for elections, failed to mention any of the criticisms and said the rollout of voter ID had instead been “very encouraging”.

 

[StJabbo1]

A few years ago the term "cockwomble" surfaced on this forum, I think it describes BJ perfectly (and I not even sure that I know what it means!)

I found this in the Urban Dictionary:-
(noun) A person, usually male, prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behaviour while generally having a very high opinion of their own wisdom and importance.

synonyms: ****wit, ****-for-brains.

It applies to many, if not all, of the cabinet irrespective of gender.

 

[Archers Road]

I agree with Schad. I quite liked Boris as Mayor of London. He chose to morally bankrupt himself as he never believed in Brexit but took the populist route to power. I think if he had led as he truly believes he could have been ok. But that doesn’t forgive him for being an arrogant bully.

He was a pretty terrible Mayor actually, and quite possibly corrupt. Millions spent on a bridge to nowhere, planning permission granted for hundreds of high rises marketed to investors in Moscow, Saudi, and Hong Kong (during a housing crisis). Oh, and bus fares doubled on his watch. The fact he could get himself elected, twice, as Conservative Mayor of a Labour city, shows how engaging his personality was though.

 

[Osvaldorama]

The 'whistleblower' to whom you refer has provided zero evidence, and also happens to be a wanted fugitive (and was indicted before he became a whistleblower, I might add, so spare me the conspiracies). He appears to have been angling for an immunity deal from House Republicans, but it wasn't forthcoming. He has zero known connections to the Bidens.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/11/...nter-biden-indictment-justice-department.html

I trust that if Biden has done something wrong, it will be uncovered in due course.

However I do find it extremely interesting how a lifelong politician on a senators salary who supposedly grew up poor/middle class is worth so much.

The same can be said of almost every politician - especially in the US. The corruption and insider trading that goes on is simply staggering really.

 

[Osvaldorama]

I mean, yeah. There are a lot of presidents who had massive personal failings. There are a lot of presidents who did really bad things in the line of duty. There is only one president that attempted to rally his supporters to overthrow democracy by way of seizing the Capitol. He isn't the only awful president, but he is uniquely awful.

This is just an outright lie.

Politicians on both sides have been trying to subvert democracy by calling elections rigged for decades in America. There is copious footage of Hilary saying the election was rigged when she lost. Even back to the Bush administration there have been shenanigans.

The only difference is that trump has a big following who actually listened to him.

 

[Gregm1988]

I trust that if Biden has done something wrong, it will be uncovered in due course.

However I do find it extremely interesting how a lifelong politician on a senators salary who supposedly grew up poor/middle class is worth so much.

The same can be said of almost every politician - especially in the US. The corruption and insider trading that goes on is simply staggering really.

How much is he said to be worth?

Agreed on the bit about all politicians. I remember thinking this when Paul Ryan first burst into prominence along with his slavish worship of Ayn Rand. It didn’t track with me how he was so wealthy when it seemed like he was basically a career politician. I might be misremembering his background. But it is the same with loads of them like you say. Some have careers of at most 10 years in the private sector. Even in the US and with an Ivy League education that’s not going to net you the big bucks unless it is banking / hedge funds. Including Law which most of them actually seem to do (here is it PPE, there is Law)

 

[Schad]

I trust that if Biden has done something wrong, it will be uncovered in due course.

However I do find it extremely interesting how a lifelong politician on a senators salary who supposedly grew up poor/middle class is worth so much.

The same can be said of almost every politician - especially in the US. The corruption and insider trading that goes on is simply staggering really.

I have no idea where you come up with the idea that Biden got rich as a Senator. His net worth was actually below zero as of 2005, after decades in the Senate:

https://www.opensecrets.org/personal-finances/joseph-biden/net-worth?cid=N00001669&year=2005

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michel...much-in-2017-than-previous-19-years-combined/

As for how he got rich after his vice-presidency, it's simple: he signed a really lucrative book deal, as basically every president/vice-president does, because people read politician's memoirs for reasons I'll never really fathom. The books that Biden and his wife wrote made them eight figures.

 

[StJabbo1]

This the opening paragraphs from a CNN politics articles which goes to discuss the investigation in full:-
"The initiation of an impeachment investigation against a president ought to be an earthshaking moment in the nation’s history.

Yet when Republican House Speaker Kevin McCarthy announced the opening of such a probe into President Joe Biden Tuesday, it felt like more of an inevitable consequence of America’s diseased politics than a constitutional thunderclap."

McCarthy appears to be a Trump mouthpiece with the investigation more a distraction from Trump’s own two impeachments and his four looming criminal trials than any lofty idealed noble seeking of the truth.

 

[Onionman]

I have no idea where you come up with the idea that Biden got rich as a Senator.

You know exactly where it came from; lunatic right-wing US "sources" taken as gospel and never, ever back checked. So I did it.

Here's literally the first response on Google to the search term "did joe biden become rich as a senator"

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/a31265187/joe-biden-net-worth/

And here's the key part for people who don't actually read anything past the headline:

"As recently as November 2009, Joe Biden's net worth was less than $30,000, according to CBS, but life post-vice presidency has been quite lucrative for President Obama's former number two. When Biden released his financial disclosures in July of 2019, they showed that he and his wife Jill had earned more than $15 million in 2017 and 2018."

Not exhaustive research but it doesnt quite paint the picture of someone becoming rich as a senator. As VP, yes.

Won't change anyone's mind, of course. Some people are past being able to change their beliefs when presented with evidence.

Vin

 

[......loading......]

This is just an outright lie.

Politicians on both sides have been trying to subvert democracy by calling elections rigged for decades in America. There is copious footage of Hilary saying the election was rigged when she lost. Even back to the Bush administration there have been shenanigans.

The only difference is that trump has a big following who actually listened to him.

This isn’t quite true either, is it?

https://eu.statesman.com/story/news...s-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/69548196007/

Clinton said the election was influenced by Russia - since proven to be tru - and that she got nearly 3 million more votes - also true. She never told anyone to fight the election result. This is what made Trump, with his huge following, a monster.

 

[Schad]

This isn’t quite true either, is it?

https://eu.statesman.com/story/news...s-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/69548196007/

Clinton said the election was influenced by Russia - since proven to be tru - and that she got nearly 3 million more votes - also true. She never told anyone to fight the election result. This is what made Trump, with his huge following, a monster.

She also conceded the morning after the election and urged her supporters to accept the results:

https://time.com/4564480/read-hillary-clintons-concession-speech-full-transcript/

I know how disappointed you feel because I feel it too, and so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful and it will be for a long time, but I want you to remember this. Our campaign was never about one person or even one election, it was about the country we love and about building an America that’s hopeful, inclusive and big-hearted.

We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.

Trump never conceded, spent months whipping his supporters into a frenzy, and then stood back and watched as they stormed the Capitol to stop the peaceful transition of power. Juuuuuuuuuuuust a slight difference there.

 

[Saints_Alive]

This is just an outright lie.

Politicians on both sides have been trying to subvert democracy by calling elections rigged for decades in America. There is copious footage of Hilary saying the election was rigged when she lost. Even back to the Bush administration there have been shenanigans.

The only difference is that trump has a big following who actually listened to him.

Trump has not been indicted for just calling the 2020 election rigged though, he actively headed an unconstitutional and treasonous plan with other co-conspiritors to overturn the result and seize power against the will of the American electorate, every other losing President oversaw a peaceful transition.

 

[StJabbo1]

Trump has not been indicted for just calling the 2020 election rigged though, he actively headed an unconstitutional and treasonous plan with other co-conspiritors to overturn the result and seize power against the will of the American electorate, every other losing President oversaw a peaceful transition.

All of what you say and more has been posted in this 'discussion'. The chaulk and cheese nature of the Trump/Biden investigations are plain to see by all with a rational view.

 

[Onionman]

Trump has not been indicted for just calling the 2020 election rigged though, he actively headed an unconstitutional and treasonous plan with other co-conspiritors to overturn the result and seize power against the will of the American electorate, every other losing President oversaw a peaceful transition.

And for fraud in New York.

And for an illegal hush money payment to a pornstar he ****ed while Melania was pregnant.

And he lost a civil suit against a woman he raped.

Oh, and the impeachment for trying to extort Ukraine by attempting to hold back weapons sales unless they made up stories about a political opponent, Joe Biden.

Bear in mind that no President in office or former President has ever faced criminal charges..

Anyone who truly believes they are all the same is a tragically credulous fool.

Vin

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

Lots of US Presidents, and other world leaders, have had character defects glaring enough to match or even eclipse their benign qualities. Trump is the only one who comes to mind, who seems entirely devoid of benign qualities. The man’s character is nothing but defects.

You know what, that is 100% true! You have jut put into words what I have been trying to say to my daughter for years.

 

[Schad]

My favourite story regarding Trump's character defects:

For the final fifteen years of his life, Roy Cohn was Trump's lawyer, fixer, and by most accounts one of his only close friends. Previously best-known for his work for Joe McCarthy in the 1950s (and for his misconduct as a young prosecutor that helped to get the Rosenbergs executed for espionage), Cohn was brought in by Trump to fight a lawsuit from the government because his properties refused to rent to Black people, and he quickly became a mentor for Trump.

After winning one case, Trump rewarded Cohn with a bonus: he took off his diamond cufflinks, and gave them to Cohn. Many years later, after Cohn's death, his partner took them a jeweler to be appraised...they were utterly worthless fakes. Probably more than anyone else, Cohn was responsible for making Trump into who he became, and his reward was that Trump ripped him off. Because that's just fundamentally who he is.

/www.nytimes.com/2016/06/21/us/politics/donald-trump-roy-cohn.htm

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

You mean other than the fact that there is loads of evidence including voice recordings and bank records of potentially illegal payments to & from foreign officials?

I don’t think your boy is as innocent as you think he is.

He's not my boy. I don't really have a dog in this fight other than wanting to see the legal process carried out fairly. If there's no case, there's no legal process and I have seen nothing that even gets close to being actual evidence of wrongdoing. And impeachment requires very specific wrongdoing which hasn't happened. Allegations and accusations don't mean anything if they're baseless.

Whatever happens with this political circus will not change the fact that Trump is a low grade hustler who is probably going to do time because he's been a moron and actually provided substantial evidence against himself and all the Biden Crime Family nonsense is just desperate deflection to draw attention away from real issues.
Biden probably isn't a nice man, and he has a few skeletons in his closet like a lot of powerful people seem to collect up over the years but he never tried to start a revolution and there is absolutely nothing that the deplorables in the GOP can find that will actually stick.

 

[Gregm1988]

He's not my boy. I don't really have a dog in this fight other than wanting to see the legal process carried out fairly. If there's no case, there's no legal process and I have seen nothing that even gets close to being actual evidence of wrongdoing. And impeachment requires very specific wrongdoing which hasn't happened. Allegations and accusations don't mean anything if they're baseless.

Whatever happens with this political circus will not change the fact that Trump is a low grade hustler who is probably going to do time because he's been a moron and actually provided substantial evidence against himself and all the Biden Crime Family nonsense is just desperate deflection to draw attention away from real issues.
Biden probably isn't a nice man, and he has a few skeletons in his closet like a lot of powerful people seem to collect up over the years but he never tried to start a revolution and there is absolutely nothing that the deplorables in the GOP can find that will actually stick.

What Trump is doing is just pure projection.

And this “your boy” stuff is basically exactly the same thing. Trump very much seems to be Os’s boy despite likely protestations otherwise. The posting history including pretty baseless defences of his behaviour that is actually on record - including but not limited to - ignoring all the evidence and claiming Biden has done the same or worse with no real evidence of this

The Biden crime family is a ludicrous claim when you compare to what the Trump family has actually done. Just start by comparing the size of the bung allegedly received to the payment Jared got from the Saudis.

You will also find that most democrats at least say they will want Biden to be punished if he has committed actual crimes. Where as the extent to which republicans have stuck their heads in the sand over trump on both the impeachments (both of them) and now his charges is truly breathtaking. Just picture if Obama or Clinton (either of them) had done what trump is accused of. You don’t even need to imagine because you can look at how they reacted to far more minor situations (Lewinski, Benghazi or in Obama’s case - simply being the wrong colour so accused of not being a citizen).

It’s just all so hypocritical. Dealing in state secrets and confidential information is usually an anathema to republicans. And they worship the constitution like a sacred document but are now ignoring someone who is accused (and is on tape) trying to subvert it

But they lose their minds over the guy currently in charge. The boring and bland centrist who is somehow both senile and must be having his strings pulled but also an evil mastermind behind a crime family. Schroedingers despot or something like that.

I’ve said it before but whilst I acknowledge that Trump Derangement Syndrome was a thing - it’s nothing compared to the Biden Derangement Syndrome going on among the US right wing and their international fans. It takes epic levels of projection to work yourself up into believing what they seem to about him.