Off Topic Politics Thread

[Schad]

Mate, I know you are the most widely read and open-minded person on here, but have you actually read the report yourself? And, having done that, have you read your own posts lately?

“A federal grand jury in Tampa, Florida, returned a superseding indictment charging four U.S. citizens and three Russian nationals with working on behalf of the Russian government and in conjunction with the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) to conduct a multi-year foreign malign influence campaign in the United States. Among other conduct, the superseding indictment alleges that the Russian defendants recruited, funded and directed U.S. political groups to act as unregistered illegal agents of the Russian government and sow discord and spread pro-Russian propaganda; the indicted intelligence officers, in particular, participated in covertly funding and directing candidates for local office within the United States.”

This is the first paragraph. The very first. It establishes that these 4 US individuals plus 3 Russian narratives directly interfered in the election process.

Aren’t you the guy who wants the election process to be clean?

Why are you letting nobodies on Twitter tell you what stuff means without… you know… reading it?

Yeah, working as an unregistered (paid) foreign agent has been illegal under FARA -- the Foreign Agents Registration Act -- since frickin' 1938. FARA exists largely so that you can carve out a space for legal paid lobbying on behalf of a foreign government, because before that being paid by a foreign government to do intelligence and lobbying work outside the confines of the diplomatic system was simply good ol' fashioned espionage.

And the charging document makes clear that they were in fact doing precisely that:

The affidavit alleges that the FSB officer provided funding and other support for Burlinova’s foreign recruitment and her efforts to advance Russian interests in the United States. In return, Burlinova provided the FSB officer with extensive information about U.S. citizens who were recruited to attend her programs, including their résumés, passport information, photographs and analyses of their views toward Russia. Burlinova further identified for the FSB officer particular U.S. citizens who, in Burlinova’s view, had expressed positive attitudes towards Russia and were prepared to continue to collaborate. During a recruitment trip to the United States in fall 2018, Burlinova met with U.S. citizens at various universities and research institutions and provided to photographs of her meetings to the FSB officer. The FSB officer used the information Burlinova provided prepare FSB intelligence reports. Burlinova never notified the Attorney General of these efforts or otherwise disclosed to the public that her recruitment efforts were supported and funded by a Russian security service.

If Russian intelligence is paying you to gather intelligence and recruit individuals on their behalf, then yeah: you are a foreign agent.

Fun note: RT America, the Russian news organization to which Glenn Greenwald is a contributor, is a registered foreign agent of the Russian government under FARA.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-as-foreign-agent-in-usa-editor-idUSKBN1DD25B

 

[Archers Road]

Quite lucky really, you might have sneered at Sebastian Fox instead by mistake.

Not familiar with Sebastian. Edward was brilliant in Day of the Jackal. And Laurence is clearly a monumental bell-end. That's all I know about Foxes.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

Not familiar with Sebastian. Edward was brilliant in Day of the Jackal. And Laurence is clearly a monumental bell-end. That's all I know about Foxes.

I also know that if I shout "Fox!" to my dog he goes a bit mental and tries to pull me on the lead.

 

[Shandy_top_89]

Not familiar with Sebastian. Edward was brilliant in Day of the Jackal. And Laurence is clearly a monumental bell-end. That's all I know about Foxes.

Understandable, after all you never see Grant Shapps and Sebastian Fox in the same place, neither Corrine Stockheath or Michael Green for that matter.

‘Shapps's use of the names Michael Green, Corinne Stockheath and Sebastian Fox attracted controversy in 2012. He denied having used a pseudonym after entering parliament and, in 2014, threatened legal action against a constituent who had stated on Facebook that he had. In February 2015, he publicly said: "I don't have a second job and have never had a second job while being an MP. End of story."[27]

However, in March 2015, Shapps admitted to having had a second job while being an MP, and practising business under a pseudonym.’

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Not familiar with Sebastian. Edward was brilliant in Day of the Jackal. And Laurence is clearly a monumental bell-end. That's all I know about Foxes.

Emilia

 

[milton archer]

Emilia

Samantha Fox ......and Roy Rogers

(I know it's not original)

 

[StJabbo1]

Not familiar with Sebastian. Edward was brilliant in Day of the Jackal. And Laurence is clearly a monumental bell-end. That's all I know about Foxes.

Sam fox, I bet she do.

 

[tomw24]

Raab has resigned.

 

[Gregm1988]

Raab has resigned.

He shouldn’t have been given the option to. How weak must Sunak be?

 

[Shandy_top_89]

Raab has resigned.

His letter is just hilarious, if you ever wanted evidence he is a character deficient bully it screams at you from the text.

Just an utter moron.

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

Raab has resigned.

He shouldn’t have been given the option to. How weak must Sunak be?

I'm not attempting to understand the machinations involved here, but this could be Sunak playing a smart hand - If he had sacked Raab, Raab's supporters (assuming that there are any) would have (probably) taken against Sunak. Similarly, if nothing had been done, and Raab had continued in his ministerial post, Raab's detractors, in the Conservatives, and in other parties, would have claimed that Sunak was protecting Raab.

This way, with Raab's resignation, Sunak gets what he wants (in my opinion), but doesn't take any of the blame for Raab's demise. Sunak's Pontius Pilate 'I wash my hands of this' moment.

 

[SaintStu]

I'm not attempting to understand the machinations involved here, but this could be Sunak playing a smart hand - If he had sacked Raab, Raab's supporters (assuming that there are any) would have (probably) taken against Sunak. Similarly, if nothing had been done, and Raab had continued in his ministerial post, Raab's detractors, in the Conservatives, and in other parties, would have claimed that Sunak was protecting Raab.

This way, with Raab's resignation, Sunak gets what he wants (in my opinion), but doesn't take any of the blame for Raab's demise. Sunak's Pontius Pilate 'I wash my hands of this' moment.

I agree it has moved on from Raab going to mitigating any negativity to Sunak - Raab should never get a ministerial position again, but give it 4 weeks he will get a post again.

 

[saintrichie123]

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[Gregm1988]

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Anti semitism is a bit of a reach. Her comments seem to be stupid and ignorant. Or more likely just naval gazing where she seems to (based on the headlines) be one of those people who think people can’t be racist against people who are white.

But anti semitism? I guess they are being super careful because coming from an MP of a party with a history in this area they can’t just waive it away

 

[StJabbo1]

ERS latest.
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Anti semitism is a bit of a reach. Her comments seem to be stupid and ignorant. Or more likely just naval gazing where she seems to (based on the headlines) be one of those people who think people can’t be racist against people who are white.

But anti semitism? I guess they are being super careful because coming from an MP of a party with a history in this area they can’t just waive it away

I am disappointed with Diane. For what it is worth, I think she expressed herself badly in the letter and , given the way that her colleague Jeremy Corbyn was treated for alleged anti-semitism, she must have known that it would have given Starmer the excuse he needed to bin her. The press has had a field day and even at work people had expressed an opinion of her being stupid. I am not really liking the way in which Starmer is stiffling the Left in the Labour Party but the letter was a surprisingly soft own goal/

The world of politics needs people like Diane Abbott whose record of going good and challenging racism has had a far bigger positive impact that her gaff-prone perception in the right wing media. Worth while noting that she has consistently had the largest margin within her constiuency than any other UK politiian and this should give you an indication of how highly she is considered by the people she represents. Unfortuinately, I feel that this has now given Starmer the ability to deselect her which is the most significant element of this unfortunate issue. Starmer's vilification of the Left continues.. Burgon, McDonnell, Whittome and Long-Bailey will no doubt be next on his hit-list.

 

[The Ides of March]

I am disappointed with Diane. For what it is worth, I think she expressed herself badly in the letter and , given the way that her colleague Jeremy Corbyn was treated for alleged anti-semitism, she must have known that it would have given Starmer the excuse he needed to bin her. The press has had a field day and even at work people had expressed an opinion of her being stupid. I am not really liking the way in which Starmer is stiffling the Left in the Labour Party but the letter was a surprisingly soft own goal/

The world of politics needs people like Diane Abbott whose record of going good and challenging racism has had a far bigger positive impact that her gaff-prone perception in the right wing media. Worth while noting that she has consistently had the largest margin within her constiuency than any other UK politiian and this should give you an indication of how highly she is considered by the people she represents. Unfortuinately, I feel that this has now given Starmer the ability to deselect her which is the most significant element of this unfortunate issue. Starmer's vilification of the Left continues.. Burgon, McDonnell, Whittome and Long-Bailey will no doubt be next on his hit-list.

Or perhaps the left need to leave the Labour party and offer a vibrant programme that is not watered down by.the current Labour leadership. I feel both major parties have MPs that are neither Labour if we identify Labour as pursuing a New Labour agenda, while we all know that the ERG are not Tories in the traditional sense and should set up their own party!

 

[Gregm1988]

Or perhaps the left need to leave the Labour party and offer a vibrant programme that is not watered down by.the current Labour leadership. I feel both major parties have MPs that are neither Labour if we identify Labour as pursuing a New Labour agenda, while we all know that the ERG are not Tories in the traditional sense and should set up their own party!

Will only happen if FPTP is ditched

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Or perhaps the left need to leave the Labour party and offer a vibrant programme that is not watered down by.the current Labour leadership. I feel both major parties have MPs that are neither Labour if we identify Labour as pursuing a New Labour agenda, while we all know that the ERG are not Tories in the traditional sense and should set up their own party!

The issue with the Left is that they represent the "traditional" position held by the Labour party. It is just that the current leadership lack principles and are cynically moving towards the centre ground to get more votes from people who would normally be horrified by Diane Abbott.

The ERG MPs are at odd lot and seem increasingly isolated as they become more and more ridiculous. As I said last week, I do feel that the era of these "populist" righ wing politicians is over and you can sense both parties moving, gradually, towards the middle ground consensus.

 

[......loading......]

The issue with the Left is that they represent the "traditional" position held by the Labour party. It is just that the current leadership lack principles and are cynically moving towards the centre ground to get more votes from people who would normally be horrified by Diane Abbott.

The ERG MPs are at odd lot and seem increasingly isolated as they become more and more ridiculous. As I said last week, I do feel that the era of these "populist" righ wing politicians is over and you can sense both parties moving, gradually, towards the middle ground consensus.

As much as I am happy to lose populism, moving to a centrist consensus denies the voters choice and undermines the very narrow concept of ‘democracy’ that exists in the UK. We already ‘elect’ a dictatorship who really don’t have to do what we want or tell the truth or not sell out the rest of us to enrich their friends. As many have said, we desperately need to get rid of FTP and see the big two parties splinter into more ideological bodies. Power sharing is not a dilution of power but a move towards mature leadership. There is nothing more immature than watching the House of Commons at work.