Off Topic Politics Thread

[Osvaldorama]

I am saddened to see the whistleblower being arrested in the USA.

His leaked documents may go some way to preventing WW3.

Those that leak evidence of government crimes and corruption would be rewarded in a sane society. Instead they are arrested and Western governments continue committing atrocities in our name.

I guess the bigger question is who gave a 20 year old reservist access to top secret documents & why?

 

[Schad]

I am saddened to see the whistleblower being arrested in the USA.

His leaked documents may go some way to preventing WW3.

Those that leak evidence of government crimes and corruption would be rewarded in a sane society. Instead they are arrested and Western governments continue committing atrocities in our name.

I guess the bigger question is who gave a 20 year old reservist access to top secret documents & why?

He didn't leak it to blow the whistle on anyone. He explicitly asked the people to whom he leaked to not to share it so he didn't get in trouble. He leaked it to look cool in his Discord. He had been posting hand-written synopses of classified info, but then got mad that people were more interested in discussing guns and Youtube videos, so he decided to actually upload the documents themselves because he was an abject idiot.

Uploading classified documents to your Discord for clout is not actually heroism. As to why he had access, the pool of people with access to lower-level classified information is enormous. It just generally doesn't get leaked because most people don't think risking many years of prison time for Discord clout is a good tradeoff.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/13/world/europe/jack-teixeira-pentagon-leak.html

But Airman Teixeira, who one member of the group called O.G. and was also its unofficial leader, wanted to teach the young acolytes who gravitated to him about actual war, members said.

And so, beginning in at least October, Airman Teixeira, who was attached to the Guard’s intelligence unit, began sharing descriptions of classified information, group members and law enforcement officials said, eventually uploading hundreds of pages of documents, including detailed battlefield maps from Ukraine and confidential assessments of Russia’s war machine.

His goal, group members said, was both to inform and impress.

Airman Teixeira’s access to secret information and his ability to know about major global events before they appeared on front pages stoked the curiosity of the group, which numbered 20 to 30 people.

“Everyone respected O.G.,” Vahki said in an interview. “He was the man, the myth. And he was the legend. Everyone respected this guy.”

What Airman Teixeira was not, Vahki said, was a whistle-blower in the vein of Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning, whose outrage over perceived injustices led them to break the law and reveal closely held government secrets.

The secret documents in the news now, Airman Teixeira’s friends said, were never meant to leave their small corner of the internet.

 

[StJabbo1]

He didn't leak it to blow the whistle on anyone. He explicitly asked the people to whom he leaked to not to share it so he didn't get in trouble. He leaked it to look cool in his Discord. He had been posting hand-written synopses of classified info, but then got mad that people were more interested in discussing guns and Youtube videos, so he decided to actually upload the documents themselves because he was an abject idiot.

Uploading classified documents to your Discord for clout is not actually heroism. As to why he had access, the pool of people with access to lower-level classified information is enormous. It just generally doesn't get leaked because most people don't think risking many years of prison time for Discord clout is a good tradeoff.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/13/world/europe/jack-teixeira-pentagon-leak.html

Not quite at the level of Edward Snowden or Julian Assange publishing leaks by Chelsea Manning.

 

[Schad]

Not quite at the level of Edward Snowden or Julian Assange publishing leaks by Chelsea Manning.

And even that was done in a hamfisted manner. The standard for investigative journalists publishing these sorts of leaks has always been to redact anything that involved human intelligence unless it was reeeeeeeeeeeeally relevant. Assange just dumped everything without giving it so much as a look, and consequently he got a lot of innocent people killed.

 

[thebronze14]

Successive American administrations love to talk in terms of the power their military, military intervention and that good old American favourite.....Justice. It's actually sickening to watch the war mongers threaten country after country with their superior 'military'. Those days are coming to a close, and with ordinary citizens in the West recognising that all wars end in a negotiated settlement, why not start there?

How about giving dialogue a try?

We need more people such as Clare Daly to call out the war mongers for what they are.

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Claire Daly and her sidekick Mick Wallace are seen as a bit of a joke these days. They spent 9 days there in China and are now spouting more Chinese Propaganda. Wallace is a crook, I had a good bit of time for Daly but she has gone off the deep end in recent years

 

[Kaito]

Claire Daly and her sidekick Mick Wallace are seen as a bit of a joke these days. They spent 9 days there in China and are now spouting more Chinese Propaganda. Wallace is a crook, I had a good bit of time for Daly but she has gone off the deep end in recent years

You are completely missing the point. The reason for posting the video was because of the message it contained. It's easy to find fault with the messenger and ignore the message because of it.

Saying what we in the West are led to believe about China is in fact untrue, makes it Chinese propaganda? What kind of world do you live in? It's what people are discovering when visiting, travelling round and living in China. Just because it's different from the political narrantive here, that doesn't make it propaganda.

Years ago I lived in Japan on two separate occasions. My father and most of the older generation in my family refused to accept that Japanese people were so polite, respectful, extremely warm and very kind. The one exception to that was my grandmother, who got to know a Japanese family when she lived in London. The difference is she saw first hand how lovely those people were and they became life long friends. Very different to believing a narrative without knowing the facts.

 

[Shandy_top_89]

Looks like RCN members are rejecting the nursing pay offer, rightfully imo. Shocked that the RCN and other Unions suggested that they accept that derisory mess.

I don’t see why Nurses in England should accept being told they are worth less than their Scottish and Welsh counterparts, I would have thought it was a common sense case of match the other offers and then we will talk?

Wonder how the government will try and paint it now they can’t use the ‘militant union’ angle anymore.

 

[Schad]

You are completely missing the point. The reason for posting the video was because of the message it contained. It's easy to find fault with the messenger and ignore the message because of it.

Saying what we in the West are led to believe about China is in fact untrue, makes it Chinese propaganda? What kind of world do you live in? It's what people are discovering when visiting, travelling round and living in China. Just because it's different from the political narrantive here, that doesn't make it propaganda.

Years ago I lived in Japan on two separate occasions. My father and most of the older generation in my family refused to accept that Japanese people were so polite, respectful, extremely warm and very kind. The one exception to that was my grandmother, who got to know a Japanese family when she lived in London. The difference is she saw first hand how lovely those people were and they became life long friends. Very different to believing a narrative without knowing the facts.

China is a highly repressive, arch-capitalist oligarchy that cosplays as socialist for the purposes of internal consumption. Its political structure is also increasingly dynastic, and consequently is trending toward a modern form of feudalism. Arguably already there.

There are many things wrong with western democracies. I'm quite comfortable preferring our system to theirs, though.

 

[Osvaldorama]

You are completely missing the point. The reason for posting the video was because of the message it contained. It's easy to find fault with the messenger and ignore the message because of it.

Saying what we in the West are led to believe about China is in fact untrue, makes it Chinese propaganda? What kind of world do you live in? It's what people are discovering when visiting, travelling round and living in China. Just because it's different from the political narrantive here, that doesn't make it propaganda.

Years ago I lived in Japan on two separate occasions. My father and most of the older generation in my family refused to accept that Japanese people were so polite, respectful, extremely warm and very kind. The one exception to that was my grandmother, who got to know a Japanese family when she lived in London. The difference is she saw first hand how lovely those people were and they became life long friends. Very different to believing a narrative without knowing the facts.

This post sums go exactly why I am anti-war & anti-government.

Most people, from any country, are great people who just want to live a good life and provide for their family.

It’s basically just a handful of weird old psychopaths that think it’s a good idea to stoke tension, attack & spy on people. Unfortunately those weird psychopaths are the ones with all the power & money.

But I guarantee we all have more in common with the average Russian or Chinese person than we do with the worlds political leaders.

The governments & media paint narratives about other countries deliberately. They would have you believe that South America is a violent gang ridden hell hole, China is a corrupt communist cess pit and Russia is full of evil people. At the same time they present the UK/USA as the world leaders that are ahead of everyone else.

Governments try their hardest to incentivise people to stay so that they don’t lose their taxpayers and can keep milking the general public for money to keep the fiat Ponzi scheme going.

Good book about this very subject; The Sovereign Individual

 

[Kaito]

China is a highly repressive, arch-capitalist oligarchy that cosplays as socialist for the purposes of internal consumption. Its political structure is also increasingly dynastic, and consequently is trending toward a modern form of feudalism. Arguably already there.

There are many things wrong with western democracies. I'm quite comfortable preferring our system to theirs, though.

Have you been to China and spent time with people in a normal family setting, travelled and seen how the general population live? You know only what you have read in the NY Times, Washington Post and the drivel the American administration administration and it's marketing departments tell you.

You have no first hand experience of China, but as a confirmed American apologist you naturally believe the crap you have been taken in by is actually true.

Pathetic.

 

[Schad]

Have you been to China and spent time with people in a normal family setting, travelled and seen how the general population live? You know only what you have read in the NY Times, Washington Post and the drivel the American administration administration and it's marketing departments tell you.

You have no first hand experience of China, but as a confirmed American apologist you naturally believe the crap you have been taken in by is actually true.

Pathetic.

Alternatively, I did my undergrad at the university with the highest concentration of children of Chinese Communist Party members outside China itself, and know several ex-pats beyond. Funny story: the Chinese government has my driver's license on file, because I mailed something to a person I knew in China, and they required my ID in order to forward the parcel.

 

[EasyBreezer]

I am saddened to see the whistleblower being arrested in the USA.

His leaked documents may go some way to preventing WW3.

Those that leak evidence of government crimes and corruption would be rewarded in a sane society. Instead they are arrested and Western governments continue committing atrocities in our name.

I guess the bigger question is who gave a 20 year old reservist access to top secret documents & why?

What documents do you refer to when you say prevent WW3?

Only one I read so far was regarding internal memos saying the US intelligence community expects the Russo-Ukrainian war to drag on at stalement for the foreseeable. Terrible for people, great for the stock market and a jolly big contract to rebuild eastern Ukraine on the horizon, which ever camp the lands end up in.

Shameful that still no negotiation is being backed by the west. Only Turkey and China have any interest at brokering a deal. Seems to me that the longer this goes on the weaker Ukraine's position will be.

 

[Osvaldorama]

What documents do you refer to when you say prevent WW3?

Only one I read so far was regarding internal memos saying the US intelligence community expects the Russo-Ukrainian war to drag on at stalement for the foreseeable. Terrible for people, great for the stock market and a jolly big contract to rebuild eastern Ukraine on the horizon, which ever camp the lands end up in.

Shameful that still no negotiation is being backed by the west. Only Turkey and China have any interest at brokering a deal. Seems to me that the longer this goes on the weaker Ukraine's position will be.

Just a few items confirmed by the leaked docs:

- Zelensky ordering attacks inside Russia
- Presence of US/NATO special forces in Ukraine
- US spying on top Ukraine officials
- Ukraine attacking Belarus

Although it’s hard to actually know which ones are real.. I’d have thought all were fake if they hadn’t publicly arrested someone for it to be honest

 

[Kaito]

Alternatively, I did my undergrad at the university with the highest concentration of children of Chinese Communist Party members outside China itself, and know several ex-pats beyond. Funny story: the Chinese government has my driver's license on file, because I mailed something to a person I knew in China, and they required my ID in order to forward the parcel.

And that is enough, along with the USA narrative on China for you to state the following?

China is a highly repressive, arch-capitalist oligarchy that cosplays as socialist for the purposes of internal consumption. Its political structure is also increasingly dynastic, and consequently is trending toward a modern form of feudalism. Arguably already there.

Have you ever stopped to consider the USA is the only country that repeatedly threatens and often invades small countries that have no ability to defend themselves against the American goons with guns? How about the endless Drone strikes which even the USA admits kill many thousands of civilians rather than their so called 'targets' What an absolutely disgusting way to behave by a so called civilised country.

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/25/1067...ds-of-civilians-nyt-magazine-investigation-fi

I honestly don't know how anyone can defend that kind of behavior and still consider themselves members of the human race, but I'm sure you will give it your best shot.

Unsurprisingly, America is the most hated country in the world and that is down to the violent, militaristic and imperialist nature of successive governments and the complete idiots wheeled out as presidents. If you interfere with, invade and arm rebel groups in small unstable countries you end up by being hated by at least some of that country's population. The USA has been doing it for 60 years but the time is coming when emerging economic and military powers are going to offer an alternative trade routes to the smaller nations rather than them having to contend with the bully boy tactics of American hegemony.

You need to take your head out of your arse Schad because as Bob Dylan once sang .....'The times they are a changin' and the American Empire which, just like the British Empire, has been build on the suffering of others, is in decline. Defend it all you want but it's loosing its grip and people can see a better life without American influence and meddling in their lives.

 

[EasyBreezer]

Just a few items confirmed by the leaked docs:

- Zelensky ordering attacks inside Russia
- Presence of US/NATO special forces in Ukraine
- US spying on top Ukraine officials
- Ukraine attacking Belarus

Although it’s hard to actually know which ones are real.. I’d have thought all were fake if they hadn’t publicly arrested someone for it to be honest

Yeah it's certain that some will have been doctored and recirculated to suit whatever narrative required.

The publicity of the whole thing is kind of crazy. Everyone seemingly wants this in the news but it doesn't really seem too surprising.

I read years ago that 1% of the US workforce had access to classified/ top secret info, it is almost more shocking these leakers and whistle blowers don't occur more often.

You can be certain that within almost all agencies there are currently people collating huge amounts of material to leak one day.

 

[Schad]

And that is enough, along with the USA narrative on China for you to state the following?



Have you ever stopped to consider the USA is the only country that repeatedly threatens and often invades small countries that have no ability to defend themselves against the American goons with guns? How about the endless Drone strikes which even the USA admits kill many thousands of civilians rather than their so called 'targets' What an absolutely disgusting way to behave by a so called civilised country.

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/25/1067...ds-of-civilians-nyt-magazine-investigation-fi

I honestly don't know how anyone can defend that kind of behavior and still consider themselves members of the human race, but I'm sure you will give it your best shot.

Unsurprisingly, America is the most hated country in the world and that is down to the violent, militaristic and imperialist nature of successive governments and the complete idiots wheeled out as presidents. If you interfere with, invade and arm rebel groups in small unstable countries you end up by being hated by at least some of that country's population. The USA has been doing it for 60 years but the time is coming when emerging economic and military powers are going to offer an alternative trade routes to the smaller nations rather than them having to contend with the bully boy tactics of American hegemony.

You need to take your head out of your arse Schad because as Bob Dylan once sang .....'The times they are a changin' and the American Empire which, just like the British Empire, has been build on the suffering of others, is in decline. Defend it all you want but it's loosing its grip and people can see a better life without American influence and meddling in their lives.

I haven't been defending the American empire even once you silly, silly man. I have protested American empire-building. In person. Yelled nasty things at George W Bush. It was fun.

But this is the most idiotic thing I have ever read:

Have you ever stopped to consider the USA is the only country that repeatedly threatens and often invades small countries that have no ability to defend themselves

No they absolutely ****ing are not. Here is an incomplete list of the places that Russia/the USSR sent troops into from 1950 on:

Hungary
Albania
Czechoslovakia
Afghanistan
Georgia...repeatedly. Half a dozen times.
Romania
Moldova
Tajikistan
Chechnya/Dagestan
Ukraine
Syria
Central African Republic

 

[Schad]

American empire-building is bad. Russian empire-building is bad. Chinese empire-building is bad. Belgian and Croatian and New Zealand and Kenyan and *****lian empire-building is bad. And if you believe that America is the only country that is capable of undertaking such actions, and the only country we need focus on regarding imperial actions, you are delusional.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Must say, I don't understand where this idea that Schad is some kind of American shill is coming from? As a Canadian, I suspect he probably considers large parts of the American populace to be even more unbearable than we do.

Also, I don't think anyone is having a pop as the Chinese people as a whole, more their system/style of governing (and in doing so, that by no means is an indicator of satisfaction in the way "we" do things. Again, two thoughts that can coexist perfectly well at the same time).

Unless I've read all this wrong (which isn't out of the bounds of possibility either).

 

[Schad]

That's honestly the strangest part. All of the American things I post? They're bad things! I post them because I'm alarmed that large parts of the country next to me is backsliding into something that is, charitably, fascism-adjacent! And I don't like that!

How that has become a full-throated defense of American imperialism has me flummoxed.

And yeah, I take great pains to refer to the _____ system/state/regime for that reason. The state apparatus =/= the people. The Iranian regime, as an example, is atrocious, both figuratively and literally. I'd certainly never say the same about the Iranian people, the majority of whom hate the Iranian regime far more than I do, because they are a rather modern, well-educated people suffering under the yoke of an extremely backward dictatorship. And a dictatorship that I believe would have been ousted some time ago if not for the saber-rattling of the US, Israel and Saudi Arabia, for what it's worth.

 

[Kaito]

And even that was done in a hamfisted manner. The standard for investigative journalists publishing these sorts of leaks has always been to redact anything that involved human intelligence unless it was reeeeeeeeeeeeally relevant. Assange just dumped everything without giving it so much as a look, and consequently he got a lot of innocent people killed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51616077

This BBC article states quite clearly there is no proof that anyone has died due to the material Julian Assange published.

James Lewis QC, representing the US government said:

'The dissemination of specific classified documents unredacted put dissidents in Afghanistan and Iraq at "risk of serious harm, torture or even death".

The US identified hundreds of "at risk and potentially at risk people" around the world, he said, and made efforts to warn them.

"The US is aware of sources, whose redacted names and other identifying information was contained in classified documents published by Wikileaks, who subsequently disappeared, although the US can't prove at this point that their disappearance was the result of being outed by Wikileaks."

You have just taken the side of those seeking to murder Julian Assange and said "and consequently he got a lot of innocent people killed" without any proof whatsoever. All you are doing is repeating the American lie and pre-judging a man who has exposed the criminal actions and war crimes of the American government and military.