Off Topic Politics Thread

[Osvaldorama]

And who, pray tell, are these people? And I don’t mean fringe activists. Are there any people with real power or a chance at winning it any time soon who plan to do as you claim?

Literally every single politician runs on pro-green agenda these days. All of them are keen on raising taxes on everyday citizens in the name of “low carbon”.

Any discussion regarding the climate & fossil fuels has moved toward a religious metaphor “the beautiful green earth is being destroyed by us evil humans” and I just think it’s a terrible message.

We need to evaluate the pros & con’s of fossil fuels more honestly instead of branding everyone as evil for using them.

 

[tiggermaster]

I've truly come to the end of my tether reading the so called debate prompted by and defended by Os. As far as I 'm concerned I am worried for my grandchildren's futures. Nothing that this troll says does anything but make me worry more for my grandchildren's futures, because there must be more people out there trolling like Os. They are not intellectually competent because in the end they rely on the montypython yes/no argument. No substance, nothing, just empty words supporting less. I'm out of here... See you on the otherside

 

[Osvaldorama]

I've truly come to the end of my tether reading the so called debate prompted by and defended by Os. As far as I 'm concerned I am worried for my grandchildren's futures. Nothing that this troll says does anything but make me worry more for my grandchildren's futures, because there must be more people out there trolling like Os. They are not intellectually competent because in the end they rely on the montypython yes/no argument. No substance, nothing, just empty words supporting less. I'm out of here... See you on the otherside

I’m not trolling. My genuine opinion is that the climate “crisis” is massively overblown and the response is disproportionate

https://climatediscussionnexus.com/2022/12/21/by-the-way-we-might-all-be-wrong/

The science is obviously complex and far from as settled as people like to believe. It is definitely not settled enough to destroy the current power grid and create global energy shortages.

Any time someone says that science is “settled” and closes down all debate, I become sceptical.

 

[San Tejón]

I hope everyone is in good health on the first day of 2023. If not I hope you don’t have to contend with what is in the report, below.


SHATTERED A&E staff last night told of “Dickensian overcrowding” and third world conditions in which patients are asked to monitor themselves.

At least 15 hospital trusts have declared “Critical Incidents” in the past week – meaning they can no longer provide safe levels of care.

In Stoke, Staffs, 31 ambulances queued outside A&E waiting to admit patients.

Data shows over 63,000 staff were off sick each day last week. And 93% of beds were filled, compared to 86% last year.

Oxfordshire-based NHS doctor Rachel Clarke wrote online: “In 14 years as a doctor I’ve never known such horrific conditions. Patients dying on trolleys with zero dignity. Or screaming & moaning in corridors. Dickensian overcrowding, total implosion. Despair. Weeping staff.

“Critical incidents declared by multiple NHS trusts. Patients in ambulances & corridors for 24, 48 hours or more. Dying before they even get a bed. How dare the govt stand idly by while inflicting such horrific conditions?” The Royal College of Emergency Medicine warns the NHS is near collapse in many areas.

President Dr Adrian Boyle said some A&E patients are asked to monitor vital signs and equipment. One seriously ill patient in a corridor was told to call out if his oxygen started to run out. Dr Boyle added: “That is how bad it has become. We do not have enough beds.”

More than 90% of senior doctors told the RCEM they had people in A&E for over 24 hours.

Rob Galloway, consultant at Royal Sussex County Hospital in Brighton, tweeted the NHS was in a “critical state”, saying: “I’ve come close to tears whilst apologising to patients for the care. In 22 years, I’ve never seen things so bad.”

Kelly Ameneshoa, an A&E doctor in South London and Surrey, tweeted: “Ran out of trolleys as well as beds. 22 in corridor, all wards beyond capacity.”

NHS worker Catherine Bond tweeted: “The scenes reminded me of the footage of hospitals in third world countries I remembered growing up. Sad.”

A nurse called Gill compared her workplace to a warzone, tweeting: “A&E seeing hundreds of patients a day with no beds to admit into and drugs out of stock in pharmacy! It’s like a field hospital – except they’d be better organised!”

One paramedic in the East Midlands said a man drove his wife to hospital after waiting hours for an ambulance.

She arrived crumpled in the car footwell and medics had to dismantle the back seats to release her. The medic said: “Never have I felt so awful. The NHS is broken, the ambulance service is broken.”

NHS England said 42 new “traffic control centres” were processing patients as quickly as possible. Prof Sir Stephen Powis, NHS national medical director, said: “The NHS continues to be under significant pressure – high bed occupancy, more than 12,000 beds taken up by patients fit for discharge.

“Please make the most of 111 online and only call 999 or visit A&E in an emergency.”

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I’m not trolling. My genuine opinion is that the climate “crisis” is massively overblown and the response is disproportionate

https://climatediscussionnexus.com/2022/12/21/by-the-way-we-might-all-be-wrong/

The science is obviously complex and far from as settled as people like to believe. It is definitely not settled enough to destroy the current power grid and create global energy shortages.

Any time someone says that science is “settled” and closes down all debate, I become sceptical.

When someone, as happens a lot even just on here, shows you evidence that one of your theories is wrong - say for instance regarding solar fluctuations, all of one day ago - do you actually stop and think “that’s interesting, it turns out I was incorrect. I’ll revise my position on this” - just like science does when presented with new information. Or do you just ignore it because it doesn’t suit your narrative?

I ask, because I’ve never seen you admit to being wrong, or to have learned anything. And I’m sure you might agree that might possibly be a bit of a problem?

 

[saintrichie123]

He really is a nasty piece of work.

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[Le Tissier's Laces]

He really is a nasty piece of work.

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It doesn’t take much to work that out.

 

[The Ides of March]

Just seen that the owners of the Hythe ferry want to sell the company. Here's a perfect opportunity for the Southampton and New Forest Councils to take ownership.and provide users with free transport. Here in Spain the national.and autónomous regions have a very different attitude towards public transportation

 

[Osvaldorama]

When someone, as happens a lot even just on here, shows you evidence that one of your theories is wrong - say for instance regarding solar fluctuations, all of one day ago - do you actually stop and think “that’s interesting, it turns out I was incorrect. I’ll revise my position on this” - just like science does when presented with new information. Or do you just ignore it because it doesn’t suit your narrative?

I ask, because I’ve never seen you admit to being wrong, or to have learned anything. And I’m sure you might agree that might possibly be a bit of a problem?

I often admit that I’m wrong. Fair play, it isn’t directly solar flares. There are a million other interrelated reasons that the planet’s climate could be changing. I also have said all along I think it is likely that humans are having an impact.

But I still don’t think that it justifies many of the harmful policies and inhumane fear mongering that goes on. I simply don’t believe the climate crisis is a huge crisis. I think it’s something that we will deal with fairly easily, and the talk of an overpopulated world which humans are destroying is harmful nonsense.

The big thing I come back to is:
In your life, the amount of energy you use is almost directly proportional to how good your life is. To have all the comforts we take for granted, cheap & abundant energy is the core to it all. And yet we are now stigmatising energy and trying to force lesser developed countries to adhere to energy policies which will harm their living standards. It is simply wrong.

Obviously I am not a climatologist. But then neither are you. But you don’t have to be a climatologist to have an opinion. My opinion is simply that it isn’t as nowhere near as bad as the doom-mongers are predicting.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I often admit that I’m wrong. Fair play, it isn’t directly solar flares. There are a million other interrelated reasons that the planet’s climate could be changing. I also have said all along I think it is likely that humans are having an impact.

But I still don’t think that it justifies many of the harmful policies and inhumane fear mongering that goes on. I simply don’t believe the climate crisis is a huge crisis. I think it’s something that we will deal with fairly easily, and the talk of an overpopulated world which humans are destroying is harmful nonsense.

The big thing I come back to is:
In your life, the amount of energy you use is almost directly proportional to how good your life is. To have all the comforts we take for granted, cheap & abundant energy is the core to it all. And yet we are now stigmatising energy and trying to force lesser developed countries to adhere to energy policies which will harm their living standards. It is simply wrong.

Obviously I am not a climatologist. But then neither are you. But you don’t have to be a climatologist to have an opinion. My opinion is simply that it isn’t as nowhere near as bad as the doom-mongers are predicting.

Fair enough re the solar flares admission.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Fair enough re the solar flares admission.

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It’s just constant bombardment to cause fear amongst people.

first it was freezing, then global warming, then acid rain, then the ozone layer, now co2, and I assume in 20 years when the world doesn’t end they will invent another scary story to keep people living in fear.

What do all these things have in common? They push up taxes and costs on the ordinary citizen, whilst giving themselves tax cuts on their private jets. Meanwhile the world never ends.

I am not scared at all of their imaginary climate crisis.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

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It’s just constant bombardment to cause fear amongst people.

first it was freezing, then global warming, then acid rain, then the ozone layer, now co2, and I assume in 20 years when the world doesn’t end they will invent another scary story to keep people living in fear.

What’s do all these things have in common? They push up taxes and costs on the ordinary citizen, whilst giving themselves tax cuts on their private jets. Meanwhile the world never ends.

I am not scared at all of their imaginary climate crisis.

…but now you sound silly…

It’s not imaginary, and it’s not ‘theirs’.

 

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It’s just constant bombardment to cause fear amongst people.

first it was freezing, then global warming, then acid rain, then the ozone layer, now co2, and I assume in 20 years when the world doesn’t end they will invent another scary story to keep people living in fear.

What do all these things have in common? They push up taxes and costs on the ordinary citizen, whilst giving themselves tax cuts on their private jets. Meanwhile the world never ends.

I am not scared at all of their imaginary climate crisis.

You see consistent messaging over decades as proof it isn’t real? Because these messages ARE consistent. It is a sequence of environmental impacts created by man.

 

[Osvaldorama]

You see consistent messaging over decades as proof it isn’t real? Because these messages ARE consistent. It is a sequence of environmental impacts created by man.

No it’s not consistent. They predicted the world would be frozen over by 1990, an arid desert by 2000. Then they said it would be under water.

None of it has happened. They just move the goal posts every time. And there is a huge difference between real science and political “science” which is effectively propaganda. Most of the climate hysteria is the latter

 

[......loading......]

No it’s not consistent. They predicted the world would be frozen over by 1990, an arid desert by 2000. Then they said it would be under water.

None of it has happened. They just move the goal posts every time. And there is a huge difference between real science and political “science” which is effectively propaganda. Most of the climate hysteria is the latter

They didn’t predict that at all. Everybody does a worst case and those make front pages. Find me a realistic scientific projection from the 70s saying anything of the kind!

I am finding it Hard to indulge you now. Your science facts are Time magazine front covers! You deal in asserted ideology and never in evidence.

 

[Shandy_top_89]

Just seen that the owners of the Hythe ferry want to sell the company. Here's a perfect opportunity for the Southampton and New Forest Councils to take ownership.and provide users with free transport. Here in Spain the national.and autónomous regions have a very different attitude towards public transportation

As sad as it would be to lose the Ferry, I think if council funding were to become involved it would be better spent on the Waterside rail link and improved road capacity between Totton and Fawley. Especially with the possible new town development in Calshot on the horizon.

Public transport on the Waterside has been an embarrassment for a long time and although the Hythe Ferry is important in terms of historic value I’m not sure how much it really does for the Waterside in terms of capacity?

Really boiled my piss when I used to see the Hythe Ferry used as an excuse by local politicians to not develop other infrastructure in the past.

Fondly remember a Bluestar return to Southampton from Marchwood costing £7 in 2007 before I passed my driving test.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

No it’s not consistent. They predicted the world would be frozen over by 1990, an arid desert by 2000. Then they said it would be under water.

None of it has happened. They just move the goal posts every time. And there is a huge difference between real science and political “science” which is effectively propaganda. Most of the climate hysteria is the latter

Utter tripe.

 

[San Tejón]

Awful if true.

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[The Ides of March]

As sad as it would be to lose the Ferry, I think if council funding were to become involved it would be better spent on the Waterside rail link and improved road capacity between Totton and Fawley. Especially with the possible new town development in Calshot on the horizon.

Public transport on the Waterside has been an embarrassment for a long time and although the Hythe Ferry is important in terms of historic value I’m not sure how much it really does for the Waterside in terms of capacity?

Really boiled my piss when I used to see the Hythe Ferry used as an excuse by local politicians to not develop other infrastructure in the past.

Fondly remember a Bluestar return to Southampton from Marchwood costing £7 in 2007 before I passed my driving test.

I would argue all three projects need attention, the Hythe ferry, Waterside rail link and better road infrastructure. It would be wonderful if your local MP supported all three in equal.measure.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Utter tripe.

It’s not utter tripe. Here’s a UN report from 1889 saying “entire nations will be wiped off the earth by 2000”:

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Just one example of literally hundreds. It was totally wrong.

If the science was so spectacularly wrong then, why would I believe a single prediction now?

Why should I live in fear of a broken future which will never arrive