Off Topic Politics Thread

[tomw24]

The problem being there isn't one of the current incumbents fit to lead. Second rate corrupt incompetents all.

Corrupt they may be, but incompetent? Not for me. Boris has done a decent job of responding to the Ukraine crisis and although I understand why he is loathed, he seems to deliver in the face of a crisis. Having said that, as soon as the situation in Ukraine is stable, he should resign. The Tories are in power for another few years at least anyway, so IMO there isn't anything to gain by Boris going now.

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

I thought you would be pleased and surprised to see that Johnson keeps a picture of me in his wallet. Here it is:

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[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

Different era. You really think we should be wasting time with a Tory leadership contest and the disruption of a change of cabinet with Russia about to all out attack eastern Ukraine?

From the Independent:

Mariupol won’t fall. Kyiv won’t surrender. There will be no victory parade in Red Square just because the British prime minister is about to be replaced. We’ve changed PMs in war time before – both world wars, wars of national survival too – and Zelensky will be fine with our next leader. The French, after all, are having a presidential election and the prospect of a much more radical change at the top. Whoever follows Johnson won’t change the policy on Ukraine.

 

[tiggermaster]

Firstly, he is a lying law breaker.
Secondly, he was the worst Foreign Secretary in living memory.
Thirdly, he has the diplomatic skills of a skunk.
Fourthly, There is little or no respect for him amongst Western Leaders.. remember the hand shaking fiasco..
That's only scratching the surface..
He must go, but theTories are so weak, with a front bench of self serving ....s. Not a backbone to be seen.

 

[San Tejón]

Different era. You really think we should be wasting time with a Tory leadership contest and the disruption of a change of cabinet with Russia about to all out attack eastern Ukraine?

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[StJabbo1]

Corrupt they may be, but incompetent? Not for me. Boris has done a decent job of responding to the Ukraine crisis and although I understand why he is loathed, he seems to deliver in the face of a crisis. Having said that, as soon as the situation in Ukraine is stable, he should resign. The Tories are in power for another few years at least anyway, so IMO there isn't anything to gain by Boris going now.

Incompetence not for you? Likening brexit to the Invasion, before that the fiasco of response to the pandemic and the graft and corruption that went along with it doesn't smack of a job well done. Oh yes lets not forget the oven ready deal that's half baked. The list of lies and deceit continues to grow with partygate simmering away. The delivery is being done in spite of him rather than due to.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

It is a tough one. Bad timing for Boris out, but also cannot ignore what he had been fined for...breaking the very laws he pushed thorough Parliament.

Just think back a year ago to the powerful image of a poor old lady sitting alone on a pew in a church while her Husband of 73 years was laid to rest, unable to be consoled by family or mourn him properly. Meanwhile Boris was hosting drinks parties and Abba nights.

I know this thread leans heavily left most of the time, but even a slightly right thinking poster thinks enough is enough.

However, like the Saints and Ralph, it may be a case of be careful what you wish for....

 

[The Ides of March]

Corrupt they may be, but incompetent? Not for me. Boris has done a decent job of responding to the Ukraine crisis and although I understand why he is loathed, he seems to deliver in the face of a crisis. Having said that, as soon as the situation in Ukraine is stable, he should resign. The Tories are in power for another few years at least anyway, so IMO there isn't anything to gain by Boris going now.

How has Johnson delivered in the face of a crisis? He has done b***** all except pose and waffle in front of the cameras!!

 

[Shandy_top_89]

Different era. You really think we should be wasting time with a Tory leadership contest and the disruption of a change of cabinet with Russia about to all out attack eastern Ukraine?

It’s not either or really, foreign policy is one area that won’t really shift no matter who is charge. Johnson is easily replaceable in this situation.

Besides it may be a horrible time internationally, but it doesn’t mean we should turn a blind eye to domestic matters, of which Johnson’s government are doing a piss poor job.

 

[San Tejón]

I wouldn’t stop at changing Johnson. There isn’t a single MP in the Tory party worthy of holding their position.
No matter how low Johnson stoops they support him especially in the house, where they are pushing through laws that will further reduce the freedom of the people and the workers.
The timing really doesn’t matter

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

The problem being there isn't one of the current incumbents fit to lead. Second rate corrupt incompetents all.

Tugendhat.

 

[berlinersaint]

As damning as this is, indeed Johnson is the first serving PM to be sanctioned for breaking the law, I just don't think now is the time for the UK to be changing PM. We're in the middle of a huge international crisis which has to take precedence over the PM breaking Covid rules. There has to be a time where he has to face the consequences for his actions, but it's not now.

Wow where on earth (if indeed) do you live?

 

[tomw24]

Wow where on earth (if indeed) do you live?

I'm entitled to my opinion.

 

[Schad]

From the Independent:

Mariupol won’t fall. Kyiv won’t surrender. There will be no victory parade in Red Square just because the British prime minister is about to be replaced. We’ve changed PMs in war time before – both world wars, wars of national survival too – and Zelensky will be fine with our next leader. The French, after all, are having a presidential election and the prospect of a much more radical change at the top. Whoever follows Johnson won’t change the policy on Ukraine.

I also very much doubt that Boris has any meaningful role in the process, beyond rubber-stamping what the foreign affairs and military people agree upon. Same applies to Trudeau and Macron and Biden etc. He made an important, symbolic trip to Ukraine, and good on him for that. But I don't see any material change happening if he is replaced as PM with whatever buffoon follows him into office, as mercifully there is nearly complete agreement on supplying Ukraine both within the Conservative Party, and basically every corner of the political spectrum.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

I wouldn’t stop at changing Johnson. There isn’t a single MP in the Tory party worthy of holding their position.
No matter how low Johnson stoops they support him especially in the house, where they are pushing through laws that will further reduce the freedom of the people and the workers.
The timing really doesn’t matter

This bascally what I wanted to say . It is a utrning point for the Tories. They have a choice of either supporting a Prime Minister who has deliberately lied before parliament and all that entails or they can demonstrate that they have a moral backbone and force him out. It there is a vote of confidence in parliament, the matter is simple. If you support Boris, it is a statement that you find lying before Parliament to be acceptable. This will be a long, downwards spiral if this is the case. So . in a nushell. any such vote is an assessment of how suitable each MP is to hold his seat. It will be a test of their moral fibre and we will quickly see how suitbale the Conversative party is to represent their constituents. The voters should be encouraged by the opposition parties to make this point perfectly clear.

As I said last week, I do not think that the Conversatives have a role to play in contemporary politics and I would like to think that the voters are intellgent enough to realise that this must remain the case until such time as right-of-centre politicians can demonstrate they are fit for purpose. They have become the party of self-interest and have nothing to do with representing their constituents.

 

[Shandy_top_89]

I am slightly torn, on the one hand it is depressing but entirely predictable to see this being buried, when it should be the end of the current government.

On the other hand I think sticking by Johnson and Sunak through all of their misdemeanours is going to damage their chances at the next General Election. IMO there are plenty of traditional Tory voters who are likely to be getting disillusioned at this point and while they might not vote for anyone else, I can see a reasonable number just not turning up if the current trajectory is maintained.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

I am slightly torn, on the one hand it is depressing but entirely predictable to see this being buried, when it should be the end of the current government.

On the other hand I think sticking by Johnson and Sunak through all of their misdemeanours is going to damage their chances at the next General Election. IMO there are plenty of traditional Tory voters who are likely to be getting disillusioned at this point and while they might not vote for anyone else, I can see a reasonable number just not turning up if the current trajectory is maintained.

But if it is shown that their Tory MP is in support of Johnson, surely this is a clear sign that they do not have the interests in democracy at heart. In such circumstances, I would suggest that the MPs in question cannot represent their consituents and therefore need to be removed from office imediately. It is very much a point of principle. Voting in favour to Johnson is a vote for lying before Parliament. If these MPs cannot see that Johnson's position as First amongst equals is untenable, I am afraid that their positions are untenable too.

I do not think Starmer has the balls to do what is necessary should be become elected in the next election. If Johnson survives, measures need to be put in place to prevent these MPs getting re-elected. They cannot represent their constituents is they believe that it is acceptable to have someone who has mislead Parliament as Prime Minister. Labour should be exploiting this but I am not convinced Starmer appreciates how significant a vote in confidence would be in returning Parliament to something the people believe in. As far as Johnson is concerned, I will reserve judgement until Sue Evans' report is issued and we have had sight of the conclusions of any report in to the pandemic. Is these conclusions are not good, I think someone is going to have to look to see if there was any criminality. What is not in doubt is that Johnson has been a disaster for the constitution of this country.

 

[San Tejón]

I think Jeremy Hunt is quietly positioning himself for a tout as leader of the Lying Party. The slimy toad is even raising questions about the lack of support for the NHS, the institution he did his best to destroy whilst Health Secretary.
If Liz Truss gets anywhere near that position (PM) the country is truly ****ed.

 

[Archers Road]

Different era. You really think we should be wasting time with a Tory leadership contest and the disruption of a change of cabinet with Russia about to all out attack eastern Ukraine?

We’re not at actually at war Tom, despite Boris flying out to Ukraine for a selfie with Zelinskyy. And despite the “Pound Shop Churchill” posturing, the U.K. are minor players on the world stage.

 

[StJabbo1]

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