Isn’t Bolsanaro effectively supporting Putin although staying neutral to avoid to ire of the rest of the world (and presumably his population)
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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Jabbo is speculating that decisions may be easier to reach with the UK out of the EU. I am suggesting that is bollocks - what do you find hard with me disagreeing with this view? You have zero proof that the UK would be trying any such thing as to try to water down the measures, none whatsoever - if you have please post them as it would be eye opening to see such a thing. So i stand by my bollocks!
We were in the EU for god knows how many years, and during which time all nations at one time or another disagree - hell, even Germany has been dragging its feet over some of the sanctions to do with Swift and Nordstream - but no one appears to have moaned about that. His post was nothing short of putting down the UK. Did you ask him to give a full explanation as to what he meant? Didnt think so.
What is wrong with our humanitarian position? The EU are on the doorstep of Ukraine and can affect more on the ground than we can. I think we could have waived the visa stuff sooner, but have provided aid, weapons, training etc, so it isn’t like we have sat back and done nothing. Again, Im confused why you have only asked me this and not Jabbo.
Can you elaborate how I was attacking people earlier on the humanitarian level? I criticised some people for scoring points politically - and stand by what I said.
Stricter measures - I’m not sure how to measure like for like to be honest, and I think there is a wider context into funding of political parties, but I’m not sure this is the tight time for that discussion, as I’m sure focus is best placed elsewhere.
And you are talking about the EU as a block compared to what we as a small nation can do. Im not saying we cant go further, i hope we do, but I’m not convinced it is a direct, or fair comparison. I think the collective global effort against Russia has been helpful, i just dont feel some of the baseless stuff said on here is fair, valid, or helpful.
garysfc
Well-Known Member
And so they ****ing should. Their initial stance was abysmal. Blatter, Infantino, jeez
I really couldnt give a **** what you think the UK is held in regards to.
And nicely put - so to you, the UK are all “****ers”. Always thought there was something very off with you.
I really hope Gregg asks you to expand on that
garysfc
Well-Known Member
Yep I read that & thought a bit underhand. Very!I really couldnt give a **** what you think the UK is held in regards to.
And nicely put - so to you, the UK are all “****ers”. Always thought there was something very off with you.
I really hope Gregg asks you to expand on that
I am surprised with the extent of consensus against Russia and this can only be welcomed. It does intrigued me why the world has been slow at coming to the party with regard to Russia whose politican stance as well as behaviour of some of her citizens has been a cause for concern since the 1990s.
On a wider scale, I do wonder how this this pan out for the future. Judging by some of the comments made ito the BBC, Putin still has an appeal for an older generation of Russian but I think that the ypunger generation are unlikely to want to be so isolationist as the world becomes a smaller place. As I said previously, it will be thee oligarchs who will have more of a say in removing Putin that the ordinary man-in-the street but am wondering how these kinds of sentiments wil play out more widely in the world. For example. I think there has been a consensus that a mightmare scenario would be for Russia and China to forge closer links and perhaps embolden the invasion of Taiwan. However, taking a more positive persepctive, how might the events in Ukraine affect somewhere like Hong Kong where liberties have been eroded.
I think it is good that most of the world seems to be taking a dim view of Russia's actions even if military action against them will not solve the problem in my opinion. I must admit that i have felt sceptical about imposing trade restrictions in the fear that it would provoke Russian action if certain essentials like financial services were restricted. Things have moved so fast since the weekend and on a united front that I am hoping that the need for further violence will be obviated. It is a shame that a the EU could not have functioned this well earlier as the benefits would have been much easier to appreciate and someone like Farage would more clearly appear to the public as the idiot that he is. I really like the idea of Internationalism and hope that the sudden desire to collaborate amongst each other to prevent the unsatisfactory behaviour will ultimately be something that can be harnessed against wretehced regimes like North Korea or even to work together to solve the climate emergency.
On a wider scale, I do wonder how this this pan out for the future. Judging by some of the comments made ito the BBC, Putin still has an appeal for an older generation of Russian but I think that the ypunger generation are unlikely to want to be so isolationist as the world becomes a smaller place. As I said previously, it will be thee oligarchs who will have more of a say in removing Putin that the ordinary man-in-the street but am wondering how these kinds of sentiments wil play out more widely in the world. For example. I think there has been a consensus that a mightmare scenario would be for Russia and China to forge closer links and perhaps embolden the invasion of Taiwan. However, taking a more positive persepctive, how might the events in Ukraine affect somewhere like Hong Kong where liberties have been eroded.
I think it is good that most of the world seems to be taking a dim view of Russia's actions even if military action against them will not solve the problem in my opinion. I must admit that i have felt sceptical about imposing trade restrictions in the fear that it would provoke Russian action if certain essentials like financial services were restricted. Things have moved so fast since the weekend and on a united front that I am hoping that the need for further violence will be obviated. It is a shame that a the EU could not have functioned this well earlier as the benefits would have been much easier to appreciate and someone like Farage would more clearly appear to the public as the idiot that he is. I really like the idea of Internationalism and hope that the sudden desire to collaborate amongst each other to prevent the unsatisfactory behaviour will ultimately be something that can be harnessed against wretehced regimes like North Korea or even to work together to solve the climate emergency.
My point was mainly that at least some of this spiel should have been in the initial reply. Not just “bollocks”.
I can tell you are operating from a position of extreme bad faith by demanding proof you know that even if I had I couldn’t give you on a public forum. I’ll indulge anyway.
I already explained a potential theory - the apparent mismatch in sanctions. If a consensus was required it really isn’t unreasonable to at least theorise that we might have been reluctant. It was written the post you are replying to!
You are also doing what Ian does a lot - accuse people of saying or thinking things that they didn’t do or say. How do you know people weren’t furious with Germany for dragging their feet on Swift. They were. If it wasn’t written it is because the situation changed quickly and we are understandably focus on the moves of 3/4 countries before thinking about Germany in this situation (Russia, Ukraine, U.K. and USA)
I didn’t challenge Jabbo because, as should have been obvious from my reply to you (again, reading helps here) his views are closer to mine than yours are. And I challenged you wading in and just basically saying “bah, nonsense”. As noted already since my views aligned with Jabbos I would have appreciated a challenge that gave me reason to potentially change my view. You did not do that or even try - making that particular contribution to a discussion forum pretty much worthless.
The comment about the EU being on the doorstep is a pretty wild one. Some of it is yes so it is technically true. But many countries in it most certainly are not on the doorstep
My challenge on your humanitarian point is you basically waded in here effectively saying “you guys shouldn’t be point scoring whilst people are dying and fleeing for their lives” - whilst seemingly providing cover/excuses for a government that is not doing very much to help the latter of those two situations.
Waived the visa stuff earlier ? Do you know something I don’t know? Has there been an update? Last I heard we hadn’t waived the visa stuff AT ALL. Has this position changed?
The EU has sanctioned 350 individuals. The UK has sanctioned 3, who have been under sanction by the USA since 2018.
I don’t need to - I know from the covid threads that Jabbo is based on the continent so I assume that is where his comments are coming from - speaking to people from there.I really couldnt give a **** what you think the UK is held in regards to.
And nicely put - so to you, the UK are all “****ers”. Always thought there was something very off with you.
I really hope Gregg asks you to expand on that
And you can’t really be surprised with a short, blunt and rude dismissal of a response from Jabbo to your post given that was all you offered his original one
Not sure that was the point Jabbo was making Chilco - he was saying it is likely to be easier for the Eu to make decisions now the UK are out of the Eu, that is what i thought was bollocks.
I think you are not aware of the history with Jabbo.
In any case, his post was short, blunt, and fact-less, just supposition, so Im not so interested if you feel it was rude. That is your opinion, which you are entitled to, but think you are overlooking stuff
The world has been slow due to Russia having a lot of control over important energy resources. Simple as that
I wonder if this will accelerate to the green agenda. I have seen some “anti-establishment” commentators who otherwise have insightful views on this situation (and call out other people who are usually on their side of things for getting it so wrong) try to claim the opposite. That this ends the green agenda. I don’t see how that can possibly be true.
If the world decides it can’t rely on Russia for gas and oil (finite resources anyway) then what is the other solution?
I have no idea what you are talking about regarding “history” so you are right thereI think you are not aware of the history with Jabbo.
In any case, his post was short, blunt, and fact-less, just supposition, so Im not so interested if you feel it was rude. That is your opinion, which you are entitled to, but think you are overlooking stuff
But if you look up you will see Chilcs posted something to suggest it is a little more than a supposition re: number of people sanctioning
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are responding to alerts/notifications and have not seen it
Edit : I was doing the responding to alerts thing I mentioned and missed that you had seen it … and…missed the point
The other issue I had not picked up on before concerned the comments made by Liz Truss over the weekend regarding the relaxation of any restrictions with regard to British citizens wishing tofight the Russians in Ukraine. I am not surprised that the Russians have singled her out for upping the ante and using her as the excuse for supposedly gearing up to use nuclear weapons. The statement has subseuently been played down by the Defence minister yet Truss's call struck me as being even more cavalier than you would expect from his boss. I was frankly staggered by the comment which was highly irrepsonsible from a poltician who is supposed to be operating on a global stage.
The remark is even more surprising in the light of her political interest being sparked by the Liberal Democrats and her previous advocacy of the CND. She seems to have turned full circle. For me, there are a number of really poor female MPs in the country and I feel Truss has effectively demonstrated her unsuitability for public office with that remark. Surprised that it has followed so soon on Angela Raynor's earlier remark last week about the police having a "shoot to kill" policy towards potential terrorisrs. Given the furore this rightly caused in Northern Ireland during the 1980s, I am absolutely shocked that politicians can still think in this way.
The remark is even more surprising in the light of her political interest being sparked by the Liberal Democrats and her previous advocacy of the CND. She seems to have turned full circle. For me, there are a number of really poor female MPs in the country and I feel Truss has effectively demonstrated her unsuitability for public office with that remark. Surprised that it has followed so soon on Angela Raynor's earlier remark last week about the police having a "shoot to kill" policy towards potential terrorisrs. Given the furore this rightly caused in Northern Ireland during the 1980s, I am absolutely shocked that politicians can still think in this way.
She is over-promoted and well out of her depth (Truss). The sort of person where if it was a man certain coroners of the internet would be saying “how did this mediocre white man get into this position”.
I fear her gender protects her far more than she deserves. And I wouldn’t be surprised if it is also another on of the reasons she was singled out by the Russians. They are not known to hold women in high regard as a nationality
It would make reading this thread a lot more informative if you could make your points without turning to personal attacks with your very first post Billy. Everyone values your opinion, but please moderate your language when talking about your fellow posters, who have an equal right to their views.I think you are not aware of the history with Jabbo.
In any case, his post was short, blunt, and fact-less, just supposition, so Im not so interested if you feel it was rude. That is your opinion, which you are entitled to, but think you are overlooking stuff
Exactly.
I feel that Russia's actions and the problems in the Middle East will facilitate a drive towards for sustainable enegery solutions. It always struck me as odd that German was so keen in importing fuel from Russia and there was always the potential for them to be held (urm) over a barrel.
Given the extent of global co-operation against Russia's actions, why can't the rest of the world take a more pro-active role against those causing detriment to the ecology. It would be great if the world's attention could turn against Brazil's depletion of the rzin forests. Imagine the effect if Brazil were banned from playing in the World Cup! Nice to be able to have this kind of leverage as I have always felt it is in the rest of the world's interest that the depletion of the Amazon is an issue for the whole world and not just Brazil. It would be nice to think that the recent events presage the end of nationalism which has been far too divisive this century.
Yes, it is easier for the EU to make decisions post brexit, it's not bollocks it's the considered opinion of those in Brussels. Whereas pre the Brexit nonsense the UK was a respected and influential member it's now a bit playing outsider.
My point was mainly that at least some of this spiel should have been in the initial reply. Not just “bollocks”.
I can tell you are operating from a position of extreme bad faith by demanding proof you know that even if I had I couldn’t give you on a public forum. I’ll indulge anyway. - Im operating from a position of extreme bad faith - what are you talking about? I dont understand what this means.
I already explained a potential theory - the apparent mismatch in sanctions. If a consensus was required it really isn’t unreasonable to at least theorise that we might have been reluctant. It was written the post you are replying to! What mismatch of sanctions - different countries have done doifferent things, and some collective, I have agreed we hopefully will do more. As you seem to like to say - reading helps…
You are also doing what Ian does a lot - accuse people of saying or thinking things that they didn’t do or say. How do you know people weren’t furious with Germany for dragging their feet on Swift. They were. If it wasn’t written it is because the situation changed quickly and we are understandably focus on the moves of 3/4 countries before thinking about Germany in this situation (Russia, Ukraine, U.K. and USA) - You write about me being rude - have you read stuff back you posted to Ian on his views - at times they come over as pretty rude, too. It is irrelevant if people were furious with Germany, you were saying we haven’t done much, i was pointing out other nations took a little time too. It seems as though some on here are hell bent on running the UK down, at least to me that is how it comes across, when i look at it as though everyone is trying to pull together - this is why I was frustrated at earlier sniping/point scoring comments about the Government.
I didn’t challenge Jabbo because, as should have been obvious from my reply to you (again, reading helps here) his views are closer to mine than yours are. And I challenged you wading in and just basically saying “bah, nonsense”. As noted already since my views aligned with Jabbos I would have appreciated a challenge that gave me reason to potentially change my view. You did not do that or even try - making that particular contribution to a discussion forum pretty much worthless. - You dont really know what my views are on the war, so not sure how you come to the belief your views are closer to his than mine. Not that I care if they are, just a weird basis for making a decision. I am not here to try to make you change your view. I think you take this forum stuff by the letter of the law, and far too seriously. Dont call my contribution worthless - that is rude and unecessary - I have explained in context about Jabbo’s post being the same - stop playing double standards.
The comment about the EU being on the doorstep is a pretty wild one. Some of it is yes so it is technically true. But many countries in it most certainly are not on the doorstep - no it isn’t pretty wild, again you are taking this out of context. Try reading - you seem to love that comment. The Eu being on their doorstep makes it far easier for people to migrate from Ukraine.
My challenge on your humanitarian point is you basically waded in here effectively saying “you guys shouldn’t be point scoring whilst people are dying and fleeing for their lives” - whilst seemingly providing cover/excuses for a government that is not doing very much to help the latter of those two situations. - What cover have I given the government? See to me, you are doing the same as many on here - trading in thoughts about comments of political alliance. I have not covered the UK government, Im literally saying they could do more, so could everyone. I think your approach with me is political alliance, you think I am a far reaching right Tory, and that is why you are saying these things. Is funny to watch yo do it, and it ended up being the reason why I stopped posting on here previously.
Waived the visa stuff earlier ? Do you know something I don’t know? Has there been an update? Last I heard we hadn’t waived the visa stuff AT ALL. Has this position changed? - I think we are on the verge of doing something with visas to make it easier - and I wish they had done something sooner, but getting there in the end is surely better than not getting there at all.
Im happy to leave it with you Gregg - I think your views on me/what I write are pretty wild, and prejudiced, and this isn’t really helping anything is it
garysfc
Well-Known Member
Interesting that Truss gets called out & Putin’s response is to raise the nuke stakes. Yes might have a been considered a bit cavalier but she seems to getting more ****e than the bloke who started all this ****e. Maybe that’s how we got here in the first place?
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