I think that has to be the biggest bunch of horseshit I have ever read. I mean, meet in Belarus!!!! I can't think of anywhere apart from Moscow where it would be more inappropriate to meet!
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Isn’t the Belarus thing only being mentioned because there actually were some proposals to do that ?
I know Ian’s post is a load of crazed ramblings that would make Tulsi Gabbard and the like proud but I don’t think that one is completely made up. It would be inappropriate of course
"Unless it is some long con being played Russia haven’t come across looking strong. The actions this afternoon of talking about nuclear deterrent are the signs of panic. Why would you need to deter someone with super weapons if your conventional forces were so much stronger and you were in a position of strength"
Precisely.
And the rest of your post too. Spot on.
He's misjudged on this one. If I could be arsed to find my post before he went in (where in fairness I was wrong because I didn't think he would, for precisely the reasons of what is happening) it's what is playing out.
The main concern, as has been stated, is what happens if he gets cornered. But to take Ian's approach and try and pacify him gently, is precisely what he was gambling the West *would* do, which would then allow him to get away with it. The fact we haven't is what will take him down, along with the bravery and steadfastness of the Ukrainians, plus the fact that the largely conscript army of Russia don't actually want to be killing their Slavic fellows.
Yes, it was proposed, by Lukashenko, to be held in Minsk. That's Lukashenko, who is entirely in the pocket of Putin, and who had a plane diverted to land at Minsk just so he could arrest and disappear a journalist that was on that plane who'd been a bit mean about him. And he was smartly told to bugger off with that idea by the Ukrainians.
Now they have said that they'll meet on the Ukrainian border, which may give Putin an opportunity to back down from this madness. But he won't want to do it unless it makes him look strong and powerful, because ultimately this is all a bit of a dick-waving contest, as it always is with Putin.
Some of the latest developments indicate things like:
- collapse of the rouble
- a run on the Russian banks
- Turkey closing off the Black Sea
It seems like underestimated the response of both Europe and Ukraine
- collapse of the rouble
- a run on the Russian banks
- Turkey closing off the Black Sea
It seems like underestimated the response of both Europe and Ukraine
Which is, funnily enough, what will lead to the Russian people turning against him (I mean, I'm not convinced all that many like him), but almost more importantly, it'll lead to the oligarchs doing so as well. If they start seeing their money disappearing, that's what'll sort this.
I'm glad to see Putin using the nuclear weapon threat hasn't deterred Nato and others from continuing to sanction Russia. I mean, Russia will be financially crippled for a long, long time if Putin continues with his war.
The main question is whether or not we allow Putin a way of backing down that doesn't entirely emasculate him, or whether we keep the foot on his windpipe now he's struggling.
To be honest - the sanctions on the oligarchs should continue as they have enabled this. But I expect it is more likely that if they turned on him they would be relaxed. Price of doing business I expect
I did wonder if he was just positioning the troops with hopes the west would come out and say “ok we agree Ukraine will never join NATO”. And be done with it
But then that didn’t happen and rather than just pretend that it was all an exercise and back down (even though no one would believe it). But he didn’t
We need someone that can get near him to slip some polonium in his tea though. And sadly, with the levels of bonkers paranoia he's displayed, that's going to be pretty tough.
I suspect Putin has realised he's ****ed up but won't withdraw his troops as Ukraine would declare a victory and will make him and Russia a laughing stock. He's not stupid enough to start a nuclear war but one thing Putin will not do is fall on his sword. The most likely ending to all this is a deal will be reached which enables him to save face but will also ensure Ukraine's independence. Don't ask me how though!
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Yeah, FIFA being weaker than a nun's piss shocker. FIFA need to kick Russia out of the World Cup qualifying as an absolute minimum rather than this crock about not being able to play under the national flag.
Last year I watched “The Americans” that is set during the backdrop of the Soviet-Afghan War and it was a very powerful underlying point of the story
I saw someone on Twitter the other day try to big up the Russian army by citing Napoleon and Operation Barbarossa. Completely missing that those where when the Russians were in the same situation as Ukraine is now - fighting to defend their homeland
And if Putin is to be believed - they are very similar people…
He’s not stupid but certainly appears to be mad which for me is more than a tad worrying
I have enjoyed alot of the posts by those people criticising me when the subject has stuck with football and the last thing I want to do is to be personal. I am saddened that there are so many people in this chatroom whose position regarding the Russian invasion of Ukraine could be considered ironic - especially when similar criticism has been levelled for similar errors by British governments such as the invasion of Iraq.
I am not sure that European intervention in Ukraine will make the situation any better. Certainly the idea of supporting the independence of Ukraine with weapons (as well as British mecenaries) is both unhelpful and dangerous. This is even worse that British companies supplying arms to Saudi to kill civilians in Yemen. The threat of sanctions is probably more realistic albeit I do not think it will have the desired effect as China will simply address any shortfall. Access to financial institutions will probably be more damaging, especially to Putin's cronies but , if I was in Putin's shoes, the cutting of gas and grain supplies would be the option I would pursue as this would potentially hit Western Europe harder.I do not concur, as some suggest here, he is a man on the back foot. By contrast, I think he has shown how reliant the West is on Russia for things like grain as well as fuel.
It fascinates me that the opprobrium currently served against Russia has united the rest of the world in a fashion that we have not seen since apartheid in South Africa. Globale pressure eventually brought that regime down without military action and I see no reason why a longer game is not played with Russia. Interestingly enough, alot of other countries such as India have refused to condemn Russia's actions and it is not difficult to appreciate why up and coming super powers like india and China are quite keen for this to remain a European issue which humiliates the West. The world is changing and I feel that both the US and Western Europe cannot count on being the dominant voice in world politics. I would go further and say that Russian intervention in parts of Africa and in Syria will also mean that Putin will be viewed by some countries as a man who sorts out problems. We may consider ourselves to be more sophisticated and abhor the means Putin has at his disposal but I feel that the argument that Western democratic influence being as significant as it once was does have a lot of truck.
Personally, I feel severely let down by the politic leaders in the West who have misjudged the situation for nearly twenty years whilst happy to turn a blind eye to Russian's misdemeanours whilst taking her money. Putin has played a patient game with the West and, with regard to a country like Germany, has maneouvered them in to a position where they are dependent upon Russian fuel. He has out-thought us completely and I totally disagree that the West has either the means or the apetite to confront him. As I said previously. we are now in a situation where a satisfactory conclusion is to prevent closer ties between Russia and China. As someone said earlier in this thread, Russia's actions may emboldened Chinese action in Taiwan having witnessed a belated, concerted effort by the EU to thwart Russia. That horse has now bolted and, I am afraid that Russia is very much the country call Europe's tune in the near future.
Any form of military action against Russia would be a folly and we are entering an era of appeasement until such time as the people of Russia are fed up with Putin and oust him themselves.
I am not sure that European intervention in Ukraine will make the situation any better. Certainly the idea of supporting the independence of Ukraine with weapons (as well as British mecenaries) is both unhelpful and dangerous. This is even worse that British companies supplying arms to Saudi to kill civilians in Yemen. The threat of sanctions is probably more realistic albeit I do not think it will have the desired effect as China will simply address any shortfall. Access to financial institutions will probably be more damaging, especially to Putin's cronies but , if I was in Putin's shoes, the cutting of gas and grain supplies would be the option I would pursue as this would potentially hit Western Europe harder.I do not concur, as some suggest here, he is a man on the back foot. By contrast, I think he has shown how reliant the West is on Russia for things like grain as well as fuel.
It fascinates me that the opprobrium currently served against Russia has united the rest of the world in a fashion that we have not seen since apartheid in South Africa. Globale pressure eventually brought that regime down without military action and I see no reason why a longer game is not played with Russia. Interestingly enough, alot of other countries such as India have refused to condemn Russia's actions and it is not difficult to appreciate why up and coming super powers like india and China are quite keen for this to remain a European issue which humiliates the West. The world is changing and I feel that both the US and Western Europe cannot count on being the dominant voice in world politics. I would go further and say that Russian intervention in parts of Africa and in Syria will also mean that Putin will be viewed by some countries as a man who sorts out problems. We may consider ourselves to be more sophisticated and abhor the means Putin has at his disposal but I feel that the argument that Western democratic influence being as significant as it once was does have a lot of truck.
Personally, I feel severely let down by the politic leaders in the West who have misjudged the situation for nearly twenty years whilst happy to turn a blind eye to Russian's misdemeanours whilst taking her money. Putin has played a patient game with the West and, with regard to a country like Germany, has maneouvered them in to a position where they are dependent upon Russian fuel. He has out-thought us completely and I totally disagree that the West has either the means or the apetite to confront him. As I said previously. we are now in a situation where a satisfactory conclusion is to prevent closer ties between Russia and China. As someone said earlier in this thread, Russia's actions may emboldened Chinese action in Taiwan having witnessed a belated, concerted effort by the EU to thwart Russia. That horse has now bolted and, I am afraid that Russia is very much the country call Europe's tune in the near future.
Any form of military action against Russia would be a folly and we are entering an era of appeasement until such time as the people of Russia are fed up with Putin and oust him themselves.