Off Topic Politics Thread

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St Badger said:
Interesting read, and fairly accurate imo.

https://rachaelswindon.blogspot.com/2020/08/why-isnt-keir-starmers-labour-party-20.html
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I read as far as " Talented MP's like Dawn Butler" then I looked to see if it was April 1. Dawn got the front bench job only because she supported Corbyn. She isn't talented or even average. And that isn't racist, I'm ignoring her colour. There are talented black women out there, but Dawn isn't one of them as anyone has seen her performances would surely agree. It is also worth noting that Starmer performs ahead of both party and Johnson in terms of popularity. The first time Labour has had a leader ahead of the Tories in popularity for many years. Wait until Brexit hits.
 
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Farked19 said:
I read as far as " Talented MP's like Dawn Butler" then I looked to see if it was April 1. Dawn got the front bench job only because she supported Corbyn. She isn't talented or even average. And that isn't racist, I'm ignoring her colour. There are talented black women out there, but Dawn isn't one of them as anyone has seen her performances would surely agree. It is also worth noting that Starmer performs ahead of both party and Johnson in terms of popularity. The first time Labour has had a leader ahead of the Tories in popularity for many years. Wait until Brexit hits.
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The problem, from my point of view, is uniting the Labour Party AND the supporters.
This is where the Tories are streets ahead of other parties.
For them it’s party first, country second and no matter how much they might disagree with being led by an extreme right wing group, hellbent on ruining the country, even those on the left of the party will toe the party line, if it keeps them in power. Same goes for their voters, IMO.
Labour MPs seem intent on turning on each other, and many Labour voters want their precise vision of what the party should stand for, or threaten never to vote for the party again if they don’t get their way, which is plain stupid.
They need to be more pragmatic, like Tory voters, and vote for whatever shade of red the Labour Party might be, to regain power, and then, if they are unhappy with the party direction try and change it from that position of power.
There’s another 4 years of this government, and you have to presume that, unless they continue to blunder on in the same way as the first year, they will find themselves in a position to throw bribes at the electorate and use the media (and Putin and Dominic Cummings bots) to tell it’s usual vote winning lies, before the next election
 
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Just out of interest a question: What if " A lurch to the right a la Blair" was the only thing that would get Labour into power ? Would you support that? Or would you just take the attitude that the electorate are wrong and stupid ( A possibility that I don't actually exclude) and would re elect the Tories in any other scenario where Labour were further left and just accept that outcome rather than move to the right?

As a point of information my own position is that I'm not on the far right of Labour. I supported Blair but on issues such as Trident I would scrap it in a heartbeat and put the money saved into the NHS.
 
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Farked19 said:
Just out of interest a question: What if " A lurch to the right a la Blair" was the only thing that would get Labour into power ? Would you support that? Or would you just take the attitude that the electorate are wrong and stupid ( A possibility that I don't actually exclude) and would re elect the Tories in any other scenario where Labour were further left and just accept that outcome rather than move to the right?

As a point of information my own position is that I'm not on the far right of Labour. I supported Blair but on issues such as Trident I would scrap it in a heartbeat and put the money saved into the NHS.
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It’s not the only thing that will get Labour into power. It will be monumentally difficult, but if papers like the Mail and Express are calling this government out, it must be possible to at least have a press which doesn’t demonise Labour like they were under Corbyn. Don’t forget how popular Corbyn was with young people in 2017.

But to answer your question obliquely, if Labour won by lurching to the right, I would be deliriously happy, because anything is better than this proto-fascist Tory scum pool.
 
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Farked19 said:
Just out of interest a question: What if " A lurch to the right a la Blair" was the only thing that would get Labour into power ? Would you support that? Or would you just take the attitude that the electorate are wrong and stupid ( A possibility that I don't actually exclude) and would re elect the Tories in any other scenario where Labour were further left and just accept that outcome rather than move to the right?

As a point of information my own position is that I'm not on the far right of Labour. I supported Blair but on issues such as Trident I would scrap it in a heartbeat and put the money saved into the NHS.
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I consider myself to be central Labour, with leanings to the left, but understand that Labour have to regain power by appealing to the Tory voters that lean to the left and no longer wish to be associated with the unnecessarily nasty politics of the last 10 years. Starmer might achieve that.
Blair made mistakes, such as over using PFI in the NHS, introducing Zero Hours Contracts, which now exceed 1 million I believe and the Iraq war, but I think the country generally thrived and was fairer under him.
I loved some of Corbyn’s policies, but fear he was introducing too much too quickly, which gave the media too easy a job to discredit him, but protecting the poorer families/individuals, workers rights and the NHS should always be key to a Labour Party, IMO. A fairer welfare system is important too, after all the damage done by IDS’ changes.
So, in a nutshell I would vote for Starmer.
 
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I see the lazy bastard who is supposed to be running the country is off on holiday yet again. Don't forget he is the man who ****s everything up. Imagine going on holiday with him. It would just be an unmitigated disaster like everything else he has anything to do with.
 
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I wonder if many realise that it probably won’t be governing policies and leanings that will help labour win an election. If they want to do that, they need to give the right media what they want. They’ll have to “buy” their way in, just like the last 30 years worth of governments have done.
 
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fatletiss said:
I wonder if many realise that it probably won’t be governing policies and leanings that will help labour win an election. If they want to do that, they need to give the right media what they want. They’ll have to “buy” their way in, just like the last 30 years worth of governments have done.
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I think Starmer gets that, which is possibly why he didn’t dismiss the question out of hand, when asked if he would be happy if he was endorsed by the Sun.
Blair understood this which is probably why he became friends with Murdoch, because Murdoch, and the Sun, are key to delivering a lot of working class votes one way or the other.
It’s like making a pact with the devil, but buying the Sun and using his position to influence voters, was a very smart move by Murdoch, because it effectively makes him the Kingmaker.
 
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St Badger said:
I think Starmer gets that, which is possibly why he didn’t dismiss the question out of hand, when asked if he would be happy if he was endorsed by the Sun.
Blair understood this which is probably why he became friends with Murdoch, because Murdoch, and the Sun, are key to delivering a lot of working class votes one way or the other.
It’s like making a pact with the devil, but buying the Sun and using his position to influence voters, was a very smart move by Murdoch, because it effectively makes him the Kingmaker.
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Have you seen the Murdock documentary series on iPlayer.

It totally reinforces that.
 
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Perhaps the biggest issue for me is having a BBC that isn't scared of calling out the government of the day whatever shade. I spent the first 60 years of my life having some faith that the beeb was largely balanced and in my experience people trusted it's balance. This trust has been purposely eroded by the Tories by continued threats to the beeb's viability. The last 10 years has, in my opinion, seen a continued attack on our country's most valued institutions. It's taken a pandemic to partially protect the NHS, at least, in the short term. Perhaps the economic nightmare post brexit will require objective news reporting, can we hope the the BBC will be fit enough to tell how it is?
 
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The only glimmer of hope there is that James seems to be falling out with his brother and the Dirty Digger. This cosying up began with John Smith and the so called Prawn Cocktail Offensive. A necessary evil perhaps.
 
tiggermaster said:
Perhaps the biggest issue for me is having a BBC that isn't scared of calling out the government of the day whatever shade. I spent the first 60 years of my life having some faith that the beeb was largely balanced and in my experience people trusted it's balance. This trust has been purposely eroded by the Tories by continued threats to the beeb's viability. The last 10 years has, in my opinion, seen a continued attack on our country's most valued institutions. It's taken a pandemic to partially protect the NHS, at least, in the short term. Perhaps the economic nightmare post brexit will require objective news reporting, can we hope the the BBC will be fit enough to tell how it is?
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Seconded.
When Naga Munchetty gets sanctioned by the BBC, for putting a spin on a comment relative to her own experiences of racism, yet the likes of Laura Kuenssberg puts her own spin on every report, without being told to report just what has been said, questions of bias will always need to be asked of the BBC and it’s neutrality.
Equally on political talk shows. Guests are introduced with their political affiliations announced, yet the hosts don’t have their political affiliations made clear.
I think they should. I think the public should be told about the various connections all the main BBC political chat show hosts have, many that go back to their youth, so that viewers can understand why they give MPs from the left, in general, a harder time than those from the party they favour, which is the Tory party.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
It’s not the only thing that will get Labour into power. It will be monumentally difficult, but if papers like the Mail and Express are calling this government out, it must be possible to at least have a press which doesn’t demonise Labour like they were under Corbyn. Don’t forget how popular Corbyn was with young people in 2017.

But to answer your question obliquely, if Labour won by lurching to the right, I would be deliriously happy, because anything is better than this proto-fascist Tory scum pool.
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Keir Starmer still favourite fo next PM (assuming spaffalot runs full term I feel the knives are out certainly wouldn't have Sunak at my back if I were bumbling Booris). https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-prime-minister
 
St Badger said:
An interesting survey, predicting gloomy times ahead at the next election for Labour.
Labourlist are independent of the Labour Party.

https://labourlist.org/2020/08/55-o...ct-a-tory-government-after-the-next-election/
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Labour and the Lib Dem’s need to massively change electoral strategy and stand down in each other’s target seats, or we will be condemned to perpetual Tory government for good, the Conservatives know this and that’s why we are seeing this complete rise in outright corruption and unaccountability, they know that nothing they do will hurt them because of their grip on FPTP.

It was utterly moronic that they didn’t do this last election, genuinely the difference between a hung parliament and a Johnson majority and it was absolutely obvious. Hubris was more important for both Swinson and Corbyn.
 
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