Off Topic Politics Thread
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There won’t be a Labour PM until those who want Socialism understand the power of Pragmatism
That’s my pithy one liner of the day
I’ll get my coat
Pragmatism is the illusion under which we hide our fear of change.
Yes, you guys want a more balanced society, but, like, that would make me poorer, so the pragmatic solution is to... erm... get those benefit cheats!
Not actually that pithy, but by Ian’s standards it’s a brilliant exercise in Brevity.
As for Keir Starmer, he is neither as cynical as Tony Blair, nor as dogmatic as Jeremy Corbyn. Hopefully he can prove that it’s possible to be both a winner and a principled politician. How long is it since we’ve had a leader like that, of any party?
'RLB re-tweeted a comment by Maxine Peake which...having read Ms Peake's interview in the Independent and finding much within in it with which I agree, feel that RLB's sacking is a gross over-reaction...There is a serious issue here of double standards and people like Maxine Peake have actually visited Palestine in order to make more informed comments. This is not a case of some "air head" actress talking about something about which she knows nothing'.
Ian, Maxine has since said: ‘I feel it’s important for me to clarify that, when talking to The Independent, I was inaccurate in my assumption of American Police training & its sources. ‘I find racism & antisemitism abhorrent & I in no way wished, nor intended, to add fodder to any views of the contrary.’
So why didn't Rebecca Long-Bailey simply apologise and delete her tweet of an 'inaccurate assumption' when asked to do so by her party leader?
'At the same time, I have today received an e-mail from the Labour Party stating that this is "Armed Forces Day." I find this slightly odd that Labour feel this is worthwhile celebrating more that the recent contributions of the NHS or other key workers. It just sends out a message that Starmer's Labour Party does not have it's priorities correct and perhaps does not quite understand the current mood of the country insofar that the people genuinely recognise the contribution to society of those people who have shown in the last three months who demonstrably matters the most'.
We can appreciate both organisations Ian, it's not a case of either/other. Armed Forces Day (formally Veterans' Day) has been an annual event since 2006. Labour 'feel this is worthwhile celebrating' as it is an official event, so much so that in 2007 Labour MP Jim Devine tabled an House of Commons Early Day Motion calling for the day to be a public holiday, stating, "that this House recognises the outstanding contribution that veterans have made to the country; and believes that Veterans' Day should be a national public holiday across the United Kingdom."
My opinion on why Labour have made a big issue about the Armed Forces Day, is simply because for the last few years, under Corbyn, the Tories have depicted Labour as being unpatriotic.
They need to get the right wing groups to realise that Labour DO give a feck about the country and those that serve it, and this is an easy way to get the ball rolling.
They need to get the right wing groups to realise that Labour DO give a feck about the country and those that serve it, and this is an easy way to get the ball rolling.
On a completely different subject, I was reading a week or so ago, about the state of our navy.
Regarding our type 45 destroyers. We have 6.
One has spent just 6 days at sea, in the last four years.
One has been out of duty for the last 2 years.
And a third was out of duty for all of last year, less 15 days.
Good to know, as an island, that we are in good shape to protect our shores.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/royal-navys-1bn-warship-stuck-22225304
Regarding our type 45 destroyers. We have 6.
One has spent just 6 days at sea, in the last four years.
One has been out of duty for the last 2 years.
And a third was out of duty for all of last year, less 15 days.
Good to know, as an island, that we are in good shape to protect our shores.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/royal-navys-1bn-warship-stuck-22225304
Just pinched this.
Still baffled as to why 14 million people voted for this and why a right-wing cabal within the Labour Party, decided this was preferable to a Labour government ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1. Let’s start with the milder corruption: it was revealed Matt Hancock tried to block 400 homes and a primary school near Newmarket racecourse, after receiving at least £65,000 in donations from horseracing bigwigs who opposed the scheme
2. And then Robert Jenrick, the Housing Minister, overruled his dept and planning officers to rush through planning permission that saved Richard Desmond a £45m fee. Desmond is a billionaire pornographer, former-Express owner, and (subsequent to this) a Tory donor
3. The Tory Manifesto says: “we will offer more homes to local families, enabling councils to use developers’ contributions via the planning process”
4. The lost £45m was the “developers’ contribution”. One of Britain’s most deprived areas lost it. A billionaire kept it.
5. And then, I'm sure coincidentally, Desmond donated £12,000 to the Tory Party the next week. A bargain – only 0.02% of the £45m he saved
6. So this week Jenrick denied he had done anything wrong
7. Unfortunately, he had already admitted his actions were “unlawful” on 29 May
8. And then the business minister said voters could “raise their concerns at Tory fundraisers”
9. So now have to donate to the Tory Party before we can complain about the Tory Party doing illegal things for their donors
10. In Coronavirus news: Boris Johnson announced more relaxations of the lockdown, saying he would “trust the British public to use their common sense”
11. 48 hours later a major incident was declared on the South Coast, as 500,000 people common-sensibly crowded the beaches
12. Boris Johnson said he “would not hesitate” to bring back lockdown if the rules on social distancing weren’t observed
13. 48 hours later, he hasn’t brought back lockdown
14. Then the govt announced councils would have the “power and resources” to enforce local lockdowns
15. But council leaders wrote to the govt to explain that they don’t actually have the legal powers to do this
16. And then 8 out of 10 councils in England have declared they are at risk of bankruptcy, having absorbed cuts of between 26% and 50%
17. Health leaders, including the presidents of Royal Colleges of Physicians, Nurses, GPs and Surgeons wrote to the govt asking for an urgent review of preparations for a second wave
18. The govt declined to do a review
19. And then the WHO warned of global shortage of oxygen and breathing equipment
20. So naturally, the govt opened pubs and cinemas
21. Then, after a month of not telling us the daily test numbers, the govt went a step further and cancelled the daily briefings altogether
22. UK Statistics Authority issued a 2nd official warning about the “trustworthiness” of the govt’s figures
23. Association of Medical Research said 74% of clinical trials had been put on hold in 2020 due to cuts
24. So we spent £900k painting a flag on Boris Johnson’s plane
25. And then it was revealed the govt spent £12m on the “world beating” contact app that didn’t work
26. If you paid the average £50,000 programmer salary, £12m buys 320 programmers
27. The German app code is open-source, and the free repository for it lists 34 programmers
28. The UK has repeatedly declined to use the free German App
29. Boris Johnson claimed in Parliament that "no country in the world has a working contact tracing app”
30. There are working contact tracing apps in: Angola, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh...
... Brazil, Canada, China, Colombia, Czech Rep, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Israel, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Latvia, Malaysia, Morocco, N Macedonia, Netherlands, Norway, NZ, Poland ...
... Qatar, Russia, S Africa, S Korea, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland and Vietnam. That's 42 countries.
31. The gov declined to publish its report on food and medicine shortage risks from no-deal Brexit, which surely bodes well.
32. Boris Johnson said Brexit must be delivered, as we have a “democratic duty” to listen to the people
33. A report this week found 9m voters – most thought likely to oppose the Conservatives – will vanish from the electoral roll when new Westminster seats are drawn up
34. When the govt (breaking pre-election promises) merged the Dept for International Development into Foreign Office 2 weeks ago, they said there would be no cuts to overseas aid
35. This week the Treasury asked govt depts to find "a minimum of 30%" cuts, including overseas aid
36. The govt continued to decry the removal of statues connected with slavery, as this might “diminish public knowledge of British history”
37. Govt cuts led to the closure of 773 public libraries, and I suspect many of them contained books about British History
38. The Minister for Arts said the govt was “committed to supporting the Arts Sector in through crisis”
39. Emergency funding for the arts (converted into £)
- France £6.3bn
- Germany £900m
- Canada £295m
- Italy £221m
- NZ £90
- Spain £68m
- Ireland £18m
- UK £0
40. In 2019 the govt committed to net zero carbon emissions by 2050
41. A year on a report found at the current rate, the govt would hit its target by the year 3650, which is 1500 years from now, a mere 1470 years too late
42. This week it reached 38°C in the Arctic
43. The govt said it would “fairly and courageously to maintain law and order” in the light of the [HASHTAG]#BlackLivesMatter[/HASHTAG] movement
44. And then the govt announced it wants to abolish trial by jury in order to address a 41,000-case backlog caused by its own cuts
From:
[HASHTAG]#TheWeekInTory[/HASHTAG] (Wed to Sun) @RussInCheshire
Still baffled as to why 14 million people voted for this and why a right-wing cabal within the Labour Party, decided this was preferable to a Labour government ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1. Let’s start with the milder corruption: it was revealed Matt Hancock tried to block 400 homes and a primary school near Newmarket racecourse, after receiving at least £65,000 in donations from horseracing bigwigs who opposed the scheme
2. And then Robert Jenrick, the Housing Minister, overruled his dept and planning officers to rush through planning permission that saved Richard Desmond a £45m fee. Desmond is a billionaire pornographer, former-Express owner, and (subsequent to this) a Tory donor
3. The Tory Manifesto says: “we will offer more homes to local families, enabling councils to use developers’ contributions via the planning process”
4. The lost £45m was the “developers’ contribution”. One of Britain’s most deprived areas lost it. A billionaire kept it.
5. And then, I'm sure coincidentally, Desmond donated £12,000 to the Tory Party the next week. A bargain – only 0.02% of the £45m he saved
6. So this week Jenrick denied he had done anything wrong
7. Unfortunately, he had already admitted his actions were “unlawful” on 29 May
8. And then the business minister said voters could “raise their concerns at Tory fundraisers”
9. So now have to donate to the Tory Party before we can complain about the Tory Party doing illegal things for their donors
10. In Coronavirus news: Boris Johnson announced more relaxations of the lockdown, saying he would “trust the British public to use their common sense”
11. 48 hours later a major incident was declared on the South Coast, as 500,000 people common-sensibly crowded the beaches
12. Boris Johnson said he “would not hesitate” to bring back lockdown if the rules on social distancing weren’t observed
13. 48 hours later, he hasn’t brought back lockdown
14. Then the govt announced councils would have the “power and resources” to enforce local lockdowns
15. But council leaders wrote to the govt to explain that they don’t actually have the legal powers to do this
16. And then 8 out of 10 councils in England have declared they are at risk of bankruptcy, having absorbed cuts of between 26% and 50%
17. Health leaders, including the presidents of Royal Colleges of Physicians, Nurses, GPs and Surgeons wrote to the govt asking for an urgent review of preparations for a second wave
18. The govt declined to do a review
19. And then the WHO warned of global shortage of oxygen and breathing equipment
20. So naturally, the govt opened pubs and cinemas
21. Then, after a month of not telling us the daily test numbers, the govt went a step further and cancelled the daily briefings altogether
22. UK Statistics Authority issued a 2nd official warning about the “trustworthiness” of the govt’s figures
23. Association of Medical Research said 74% of clinical trials had been put on hold in 2020 due to cuts
24. So we spent £900k painting a flag on Boris Johnson’s plane
25. And then it was revealed the govt spent £12m on the “world beating” contact app that didn’t work
26. If you paid the average £50,000 programmer salary, £12m buys 320 programmers
27. The German app code is open-source, and the free repository for it lists 34 programmers
28. The UK has repeatedly declined to use the free German App
29. Boris Johnson claimed in Parliament that "no country in the world has a working contact tracing app”
30. There are working contact tracing apps in: Angola, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh...
... Brazil, Canada, China, Colombia, Czech Rep, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Israel, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Latvia, Malaysia, Morocco, N Macedonia, Netherlands, Norway, NZ, Poland ...
... Qatar, Russia, S Africa, S Korea, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland and Vietnam. That's 42 countries.
31. The gov declined to publish its report on food and medicine shortage risks from no-deal Brexit, which surely bodes well.
32. Boris Johnson said Brexit must be delivered, as we have a “democratic duty” to listen to the people
33. A report this week found 9m voters – most thought likely to oppose the Conservatives – will vanish from the electoral roll when new Westminster seats are drawn up
34. When the govt (breaking pre-election promises) merged the Dept for International Development into Foreign Office 2 weeks ago, they said there would be no cuts to overseas aid
35. This week the Treasury asked govt depts to find "a minimum of 30%" cuts, including overseas aid
36. The govt continued to decry the removal of statues connected with slavery, as this might “diminish public knowledge of British history”
37. Govt cuts led to the closure of 773 public libraries, and I suspect many of them contained books about British History
38. The Minister for Arts said the govt was “committed to supporting the Arts Sector in through crisis”
39. Emergency funding for the arts (converted into £)
- France £6.3bn
- Germany £900m
- Canada £295m
- Italy £221m
- NZ £90
- Spain £68m
- Ireland £18m
- UK £0
40. In 2019 the govt committed to net zero carbon emissions by 2050
41. A year on a report found at the current rate, the govt would hit its target by the year 3650, which is 1500 years from now, a mere 1470 years too late
42. This week it reached 38°C in the Arctic
43. The govt said it would “fairly and courageously to maintain law and order” in the light of the [HASHTAG]#BlackLivesMatter[/HASHTAG] movement
44. And then the govt announced it wants to abolish trial by jury in order to address a 41,000-case backlog caused by its own cuts
From:
[HASHTAG]#TheWeekInTory[/HASHTAG] (Wed to Sun) @RussInCheshire
And you expect this crooked bunch of charlatans and liars to actually do what they say?
Sadly the opposition are busily tearing themselves apart again so, if we’re not careful, the voter will be frightened of the “hard left” again (helped by the media) and may well vote the bastards in again.
“And you expect this crooked bunch of charlatans and liars to actually do what they say?”
No I don’t, which is why I posted it, as it has most of their lies in one easy to read list.
The left side of Labour need to pipe down a bit and keep the infighting until labour have gained control, or in-house, otherwise they will just undermine Starmer’s chances.
It was a rhetorical question - quite agree. We need all the opposition parties to work together to get this lot out!
Pragmatism gets you into power and without power you can change nothing
Thanks Ian for your detailed response to my post.
I agree the oppoutunity to remove RLB from the shaow cabinet may have had some small part in the thinking of the Labour leader, I do think Starmers prime motive was to showthat he is serious on anti-semminism.
The point I was making, RLB was given an oppourtunity to delete her retweet, and didn't. I am not saying it shouldn't have been handled in this way but I can understand Starmer wants a hard line in the sand over ant-semminism, and every one in the shadow cabinet should either back him on that or leave.
What is happening the US
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I think that they have every right to protect themselves and their house to be honest.
Im fully against guns being allowed, but if i lived there right now, I'd be doing the same thing.
A gun like that belongs in the hands of soldier , not a untrained member of the public.
And if they believed their safety was at risk then they ring the police to sort out.
1. Protesters were not on their property.
2. Protesters had done nothing to threaten their property...they were simply walking past.
3. Neither of them clearly has any idea how to handle a gun. The likelihood that they succeeded in protecting anything was low; the likelihood that they accidentally shot someone were fairly high. In fact, the person most likely to be shot was the dude's wife, as he was unintentionally pointing the rifle at her at various times.
1) There is another video showing that they broke through a gate onto private property
2)All of the protests started peacefully. An expensive house would clearly be a target to the antifa brigade out to cause trouble
3) The problem is the obscene american gun laws. Also, in a few places in america the police have stopped responding. Police officers are going on strike and early retirement due to the 'defund the police' movement. They could easily have called the police and got no response for all you know. People will start to take matters into their own hands if they have to.