Off Topic Politics Thread

[thereisonlyoneno7]

The pictures may have been staged.

Then again, the Moon landing never happened and I think all those pictures of a spherical earth are staged too.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

what would be the point...........no matter what I say you would see something in there that you would disagree with.
I also don’t know why you think that I don’t think there is a problem with the NHS because I do. If anyone who is having treatment they should or would not be put on the floor. If a doctor condoned this he would should be out of a job!!! The NHS has enough problems without authorising to putting children supposedly on oxygen and a drip on the floor and taking their bed. It just would not happen. If as you allege it did then he or should be taken out of that department and retrained.

I see something that I disagree with Beddy. Please explain why what the Dr did was anything other than necessary prioritisation of resources? If there are no beds, no spare trolleys, and obviously the ambulances are out and about being ambulances rather than mobile overflow units, how do you ensure that every needy case gets a bed, and what does one do when you have 51 patients and 50 beds?

Also, when all these doctors and nurses (who probably have to make decisions like this much more regularly than they'd like to) get forced off the ward in order to be "retrained" or sacked if you have your way, who then provides the care and support in an already understaffed hospital?
Do you have a secret stash of spare medics, or is it good fiscal practice to keep using high cost agency staff to cover long term staff shortages hence making even worse use of overstretched budgets?

And please spare me this bullshit from an earlier quote of yours...
"I trust my own family when it comes to discussing the nhs and their views. They are the people who have first hand experience."
How arrogant or deluded are you that you think your family's experience is any different or more valid than anybody elses? We all use the NHS, we all know someone who works in the NHS - your family are not the arbiters of truth in this matter, they just suit your own personal echo chamber.

 

[VocalMinority]

I don't really know the circumstances behind the decision, but triage is an important part of any A&E. The Mum praised the staff so i cant say more than that.

What people seem to be disagreeing with is
A: That this was staged when pretty much every source including the hospital are saying it is a true story.
B: That the hospital staff should be taking blame or punishment for the situation.

 

[Beddy]

I see something that I disagree with Beddy. Please explain why what the Dr did was anything other than necessary prioritisation of resources? If there are no beds, no spare trolleys, and obviously the ambulances are out and about being ambulances rather than mobile overflow units, how do you ensure that every needy case gets a bed, and what does one do when you have 51 patients and 50 beds?

Also, when all these doctors and nurses (who probably have to make decisions like this much more regularly than they'd like to) get forced off the ward in order to be "retrained" or sacked if you have your way, who then provides the care and support in an already understaffed hospital?
Do you have a secret stash of spare medics, or is it good fiscal practice to keep using high cost agency staff to cover long term staff shortages hence making even worse use of overstretched budgets?

And please spare me this bullshit from an earlier quote of yours...
"I trust my own family when it comes to discussing the nhs and their views. They are the people who have first hand experience."
How arrogant or deluded are you that you think your family's experience is any different or more valid than anybody elses? We all use the NHS, we all know someone who works in the NHS - your family are not the arbiters of truth in this matter, they just suit your own personal echo chamber.

For a start I didn’t say I believed my family against others experiences. My reference to my family was in response to people reading more into what happened or didn’t happen at that hospital. My family do have to make decisions on a regular basis on the lack of beds and other things. How ever they would not allow a child under any circumstances to have to lay on a floor. Especially one alleged to be on oxygen and a drip.

 

[Kaito]

Oh yes you did .....

You must log in or register to see media

 

[StJabbo1]

I don't really know the circumstances behind the decision, but triage is an important part of any A&E. The Mum praised the staff so i cant say more than that.

What people seem to be disagreeing with is
A: That this was staged when pretty much every source including the hospital are saying it is a true story.
B: That the hospital staff should be taking blame or punishment for the situation.

Yes, clear and concise. Have to include ignoring others on here with personal experiences valid to the argument.

 

[Beddy]

I see something that I disagree with Beddy. Please explain why what the Dr did was anything other than necessary prioritisation of resources? If there are no beds, no spare trolleys, and obviously the ambulances are out and about being ambulances rather than mobile overflow units, how do you ensure that every needy case gets a bed, and what does one do when you have 51 patients and 50 beds?

Also, when all these doctors and nurses (who probably have to make decisions like this much more regularly than they'd like to) get forced off the ward in order to be "retrained" or sacked if you have your way, who then provides the care and support in an already understaffed hospital?
Do you have a secret stash of spare medics, or is it good fiscal practice to keep using high cost agency staff to cover long term staff shortages hence making even worse use of overstretched budgets?

And please spare me this bullshit from an earlier quote of yours...
"I trust my own family when it comes to discussing the nhs and their views. They are the people who have first hand experience."
How arrogant or deluded are you that you think your family's experience is any different or more valid than anybody elses? We all use the NHS, we all know someone who works in the NHS - your family are not the arbiters of truth in this matter, they just suit your own personal echo chamber.

oh dear oh dear..........I’m neither arrogant or deluded....... I suggest you take a step back from calling me names. Disagree by all means have different view by all means. My family are the best arbiters of what happens in their hospitals. I certainly would rather believe them than anyone on here.

g

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

For a start I didn’t say I believed my family against others experiences. My reference to my family was in response to people reading more into what happened or didn’t happen at that hospital. My family do have to make decisions on a regular basis on the lack of beds and other things. How ever they would not allow a child under any circumstances to have to lay on a floor. Especially one alleged to be on oxygen and a drip.

I didn't see a drip anywhere, just the O2 mask. I would also repeat my question, what do you do when you have 51 patients and 50 beds? Balance them on top of a filing cabinet, sit them up in a chair, make a hammock out of the curtains? What you do is make a decision on who needs a bed least, and try and make unlucky number 51 as comfortable as possible - it wasn't the fact that the poor lad was stretched out on the floor that was shocking, it was the fact that there was no bed for him, which is a result of a decade of deliberate, policy led under spending.
I was going to apologise for the tone of a couple of my previous posts Beddy, but having just read your last one, I don't think I need to

 

[Libby]

oh dear oh dear..........I’m neither arrogant or deluded....... I suggest you take a step back from calling me names. Disagree by all means have different view by all means. My family are the best arbiters of what happens in their hospitals. I certainly would rather believe them than anyone on here.

g

Do you think it's possible that there might be different situations in different hospitals around the country? NHS care is a bit of a postcode lottery after all.

 

[Beddy]

I didn't see a drip anywhere, just the O2 mask. I would also repeat my question, what do you do when you have 51 patients and 50 beds? Balance them on top of a filing cabinet, sit them up in a chair, make a hammock out of the curtains? What you do is make a decision on who needs a bed least, and try and make unlucky number 51 as comfortable as possible - it wasn't the fact that the poor lad was stretched out on the floor that was shocking, it was the fact that there was no bed for him, which is a result of a decade of deliberate, policy led under spending.
I hope I didn't go a rant too far Beddy, but I am a lifelong and committed socialist and things like this completely boil my piss.

Fair enough mate.......either way blame or not it shouldn’t have happened that surely we can agree on......

 

[Beddy]

Do you think it's possible that there might be different situations in different hospitals around the country? NHS care is a bit of a postcode lottery after all.

mate there is no doubt the hospitals are a mess up and down the country. Not all of it their own fault. Some though do leave a lot to be desired. I don’t profess to know the rights or wrongs only that the things being argued about on here are not helpful at times. People have a right to their views and to express it without some of the attempted bullying going on.

 

[tiggermaster]

I can only talk about mental health services. Whilst beds have been reduced since the 80s. The Labour government increased community services. Sadly, what was not acknowledged was that without sufficient beds to provide a service to complement community services these were also destined to come under incessant pressure. In 1973 there were approximately 300 beds for the elderly mentally ill serving Southampton, Fareham and Gosport plus 2 large day hospitals. Today, I understand, there is a ward in Gosport and 2 in the Western Hospital. 75 beds tops. Both day hospitals have closed. Now let's all guess whether dementia is more prevalent today or 46 years ago...

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Fair enough mate.......either way blame or not it shouldn’t have happened that surely we can agree on......

I absolutely agree it shouldn't happen, so what we need is a properly funded NHS. We already have great staff, we need more
We already have good facilities, we need more
If that ends up costing money, then so be it - hospitals can't run properly regarding patient care and make a profit for shareholders.
That's the problem, the idea that an successful hospital trust is one that makes a profit. In a growing and aging population, the need for a good health service is paramount. If it ends up costing us all more in taxes, then so be it as the alternatives are much worse.
1% extra on tax to fund the NHS properly would be money well spent, not an additional tax burden.
There needs to be a massive change of attitude about the difference between a resource and a cost.
9 years of cuts caused that whole story, not the doctors, not the nurses and not the parents.
Politicians caused those cuts, specifically Tory ones with some help from their LibDem lackeys.
That is the scandal, and anyone deflecting it away from that is either blind or malicious

 

[Beddy]

I absolutely agree it shouldn't happen, so what we need is a properly funded NHS. We already have great staff, we need more
We already have good facilities, we need more
If that ends up costing money, then so be it - hospitals can't run properly regarding patient care and make a profit for shareholders.
That's the problem, the idea that an successful hospital trust is one that makes a profit. In a growing and aging population, the need for a good health service is paramount. If it ends up costing us all more in taxes, then so be it as the alternatives are much worse.
1% extra on tax to fund the NHS properly would be money well spent, not an additional tax burden.
There needs to be a massive change of attitude about the difference between a resource and a cost.
9 years of cuts caused that whole story, not the doctors, not the nurses and not the parents.
Politicians caused those cuts, specifically Tory ones with some help from their LibDem lackeys.
That is the scandal, and anyone deflecting it away from that is either blind or malicious

I so agree although I would rather see a 2% rise and all of it clearly on the nhs. However suggest you look out for flack suggesting we should pay more tax.

 

[......loading......]

I can only talk about mental health services. Whilst beds have been reduced since the 80s. The Labour government increased community services. Sadly, what was not acknowledged was that without sufficient beds to provide a service to complement community services these were also destined to come under incessant pressure. In 1973 there were approximately 300 beds for the elderly mentally ill serving Southampton, Fareham and Gosport plus 2 large day hospitals. Today, I understand, there is a ward in Gosport and 2 in the Western Hospital. 75 beds tops. Both day hospitals have closed. Now let's all guess whether dementia is more prevalent today or 46 years ago...

I don't like bringing personal things on here, but my wife has long suffered some serious mental health issues to the extent that a few years ago she took an overdose and drank a lot of vodka. I got her to hospital and she was treated for the physical consequences of her action before she was assessed by a mental health nurse.

She was told to go home and they would speak to her doctor. Her doctor never received a letter and we had to find our own help. Mental health is invisible and so governments just ignore it.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

I so agree although I would rather see a 2% rise and all of it clearly on the nhs. However suggest you look out for flack suggesting we should pay more tax.

I expect 2% is probably more realistic Beddy. I don't care about flack though, because I've always believed that a high tax/high welfare society is the moral way forward so will happily argue my side against anyone else.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

I don't like bringing personal things on here, but my wife has long suffered some serious mental health issues to the extent that a few years ago she took an overdose and drank a lot of vodka. I got her to hospital and she was treated for the physical consequences of her action before she was assessed by a mental health nurse.

She was told to go home and they would speak to her doctor. Her doctor never received a letter and we had to find our own help. Mental health is invisible and so governments just ignore it.

I feel for you...loading, my first wife had a few issues that were never really addressed.
Thatcher's government started the closure of large mental health care facilities back in the 80s, it's got a lot worse since and as you say, mental health is invisible so the decline is ignored. Again, that is down to decades of underfunding.
What is needed is a seachange in people's attitudes towards what constitutes the necessities for a just society, and in that sense I guess I'm being naive if I imagine that all people can be that human. One day though, there might just be enough of them.

 

[SaintinSerbia]

mate there is no doubt the hospitals are a mess up and down the country. Not all of it their own fault. Some though do leave a lot to be desired.

it's good to know that not everything is the fault of the hospitals themselves, and who would know better? mate

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

A terrorist and an anti-semite and a communist walk into a bar.
The barman says
"Evening Mr Corbyn"

 

[SaintinSerbia]

A terrorist and an anti-semite and a communist walks into a bar.
The barman says
"Evening Mr Corbyn"

they both look at each other confused. I think the bloke that just went out left us a package?