Off Topic Politics Thread

[davecg69]

That’s exactly what the media owning billionaires want you to think

This is how they undermine democracy

You actually need to watch and listen and decide who to trust. The more Johnson lies the less people believe Corbin

It’s unbelievably scary how the population of this country of ours is allowing itself to be hoodwinked into believing that the bunch of liars, cheats and rich boys who have systematically screwed them over the last years will take them into the sunlit uplands of a no deal Brexit where everyone will be better off and unicorns will gambol around. On the other hand, the evil commie bastards Corbyn and Swinson (she’s useless as she’s not green enough) will destroy everything decent .......
I’m at my wits end trying to argue with all parties that only tactical voting will bring this corrupt government down and by in-fighting will allow them in with an increased majority. They just don’t want to listen.
I’m in no way a Labour voter (the last time I voted for them was for my local MP Jim Callaghan, as he was the only one to actually come and talk to us) but I’d do it this time if it meant bringing a Tory down ........ (as it is, I’m in a potential swing seat, so LD for me, even if I’m not fully in agreement with Swinson’s views).
I’m not generally a political activist, but we CANNOT let this whole sorry situation to continue. I was in Stockholm last weekend and we (the British) are viewed as completely bonkers and a joke ......
If Bozo and his clowns get returned with a majority so they can take us out, I’m moving abroad, despite leaving family, friends and (perhaps not such a bad idea) my ailing football club ....... I worry about how things are likely to be ......

 

[The Ides of March]

I am no fan of Boris but have been shocked by the tactics used by the Conservatives which are straight out of the Trump and Putin school of campaigning. It is fascinating to see the election hot up this week after a rather disappointing first week of campaigning. I have not seen a poll today but think that the election is taking some unusual turns. The Liberals are not making the inroads that had been anticipated but I also think that the only publicity Boris has received so far has been negative. The ITV debate was poorly handled and despite the lack of management of the proceedings, I felt that it marked a point where the tide stopped turning against Corbyn. The Labour Party manifesto launch today has grabbed the imagination of the public and press alike so that the initiative now looks to be with Labour. It is no longer the Conservative Party's election to lose.

I think that the Alex Salmond business today was a shock and wonder how that will play itself out in Scotland. For my money, although I cannot abide her, Nicole Sturgeon is probably the most capable and credible political leader in Europe at the moment, a savvy politician to whom the main parties have no response. It would be interesting to see if today's news has repercussions.

The early days of the campaign seemed to have been dominated by the fringe parties and I think that the Brexit party is now starting to look like an irrelevance. The election was called to unblock the impasse with Brexit but Labour have managed to reset the agenda. I had thought their campaign had begun poorly yet , if anything, it is the likes of the Greens and the Brexit Party who are dropping by the wayside. Once again, Jeremey Corbyn is catching the imagination of the voting public but , confronting a Tory leader with little credibility and a reputation for being dishonest, I think Labour will actually win by a much bigger margin than people would have thought two week's ago.

I am surprised Putin wants anything to do with Trump or Johnson to be honest. Surely, it benefits Russian interests to be on better terms with the EU, after all it is on the doorstep and I would estimate that some 70% of that country´s population live to the west of the Urals. Besides which Russians are daily flying all around Europe doing business, so I just do not get the present situation.

However, like the UK it is dressed up to adore its magnificent military, 8th May is celebrated as VE Day. Having been there, it would be better if Putin invested in its crumbling infrastructure - roads, public buildings, railways,

 

[StJabbo1]

It’s unbelievably scary how the population of this country of ours is allowing itself to be hoodwinked into believing that the bunch of liars, cheats and rich boys who have systematically screwed them over the last years will take them into the sunlit uplands of a no deal Brexit where everyone will be better off and unicorns will gambol around. On the other hand, the evil commie bastards Corbyn and Swinson (she’s useless as she’s not green enough) will destroy everything decent .......
I’m at my wits end trying to argue with all parties that only tactical voting will bring this corrupt government down and by in-fighting will allow them in with an increased majority. They just don’t want to listen.
I’m in no way a Labour voter (the last time I voted for them was for my local MP Jim Callaghan, as he was the only one to actually come and talk to us) but I’d do it this time if it meant bringing a Tory down ........ (as it is, I’m in a potential swing seat, so LD for me, even if I’m not fully in agreement with Swinson’s views).
I’m not generally a political activist, but we CANNOT let this whole sorry situation to continue. I was in Stockholm last weekend and we (the British) are viewed as completely bonkers and a joke ......
If Bozo and his clowns get returned with a majority so they can take us out, I’m moving abroad, despite leaving family, friends and (perhaps not such a bad idea) my ailing football club ....... I worry about how things are likely to be ......

Dave, I can only echo what you say about the UK being perceived as where the lunatics are running the asylum. Here in the Hague how spaffer Johnson and his crooked cronies have managed to garner the support they appear to have is regarded as astounding given the proven lies and deceit going back to the referendum campaign. This is the view of a international group of friends, colleagues and acquaintances and shared by others worldwide. Any form of brexit is seen as self harm.

Vin hasn't posted for a while but his "what a ****ing triumph" comment is totally appropriate.

 

[Schad]

I am surprised Putin wants anything to do with Trump or Johnson to be honest. Surely, it benefits Russian interests to be on better terms with the EU, after all it is on the doorstep and I would estimate that some 70% of that country´s population live to the west of the Urals. Besides which Russians are daily flying all around Europe doing business, so I just do not get the present situation.

However, like the UK it is dressed up to adore its magnificent military, 8th May is celebrated as VE Day. Having been there, it would be better if Putin invested in its crumbling infrastructure - roads, public buildings, railways,

Investing in things won't get Putin anywhere. He and his cronies have siphoned off tens of billions, Russia's economy is weak and unstable, and nothing Putin can do will change that in the short or medium term.

But what he can do is portray strength. Nationalist sentiment is extremely strong in Russia, as often is the case in once-major powers forced to confront the reality that they're no longer dominant players (not that such would have any relevance for other topics of conversation in this thread...). Even as the country has crumbled in many respects, manipulating and antagonizing the EU and US has allowed Russia to feel their equal on the world stage again, with Putin as the architect. It's foreign policy as a form of theatre for domestic politics, and it's basically the only thing keeping him in power.

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

Bush is reported to have said about elections:

"You can fool some of the people all of the time,
and they are the ones you focus on."

 

[TheSecondStain]

Dave, I can only echo what you say about the UK being perceived as where the lunatics are running the asylum. Here in the Hague how spaffer Johnson and his crooked cronies have managed to garner the support they appear to have is regarded as astounding given the proven lies and deceit going back to the referendum campaign. This is the view of a international group of friends, colleagues and acquaintances and shared by others worldwide. Any form of brexit is seen as self harm.

Vin hasn't posted for a while but his "what a ****ing triumph" comment is totally appropriate.

The modern Tory/Brexit Party initiative is a UK version of Trump. The way Trump goes about his business is incredibly echoed in the Tories, right down to Buffoon Johnson, who remember, is actually a Remainer, but saw an opportunity for power. Thankfully, for the sake of the world, it looks like Trump isn't going to survive to a second term. Might not even make it to the end of his first, The Tories have to be voted out, never to return. That's pretty much the only way we are going to get the extremists gone, even if it means a Lib/Lab/Green coalition. Those parties could work together.

 

[Beddy]

It’s unbelievably scary how the population of this country of ours is allowing itself to be hoodwinked into believing that the bunch of liars, cheats and rich boys who have systematically screwed them over the last years will take them into the sunlit uplands of a no deal Brexit where everyone will be better off and unicorns will gambol around. On the other hand, the evil commie bastards Corbyn and Swinson (she’s useless as she’s not green enough) will destroy everything decent .......
I’m at my wits end trying to argue with all parties that only tactical voting will bring this corrupt government down and by in-fighting will allow them in with an increased majority. They just don’t want to listen.
I’m in no way a Labour voter (the last time I voted for them was for my local MP Jim Callaghan, as he was the only one to actually come and talk to us) but I’d do it this time if it meant bringing a Tory down ........ (as it is, I’m in a potential swing seat, so LD for me, even if I’m not fully in agreement with Swinson’s views).
I’m not generally a political activist, but we CANNOT let this whole sorry situation to continue. I was in Stockholm last weekend and we (the British) are viewed as completely bonkers and a joke ......
If Bozo and his clowns get returned with a majority so they can take us out, I’m moving abroad, despite leaving family, friends and (perhaps not such a bad idea) my ailing football club ....... I worry about how things are likely to be ......

Oh I thought the tories were trying to get a deal now..........Only Farage is for a complete Brexit or have I got that wrong too......?

 

[AberdeenSaint]

I`ve been in Delft this week with 2 Germans, 4 Norwegians and a Serb. They were quizzing me as to what the benefits of Brexit are perceived to be in the UK. I couldn`t tell them. They were an enlightened group, and they fear for the future of UK and Ireland. They can`t understand how a democracy such as the UK could end up with a clown like spaffer as PM.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Oh I thought the tories were trying to get a deal now..........Only Farage is for a complete Brexit or have I got that wrong too......?

Boris will push through his deal, which is identical to May's deal but with the good bits removed. At the end of next year, when the trade deal with the EU isn't finalised, which it can't possibly be, we will be in a no deal Brexit. That is why Farage changed his mind about standing in Tory held seats.

 

[StJabbo1]

Beddytare said: ↑
Oh I thought the tories were trying to get a deal now..........Only Farage is for a complete Brexit or have I got that wrong too......?

Boris will push through his deal, which is identical to May's deal but with the good bits removed. At the end of next year, when the trade deal with the EU isn't finalised, which it can't possibly be, we will be in a no deal Brexit. That is why Farage changed his mind about standing in Tory held seats.

That's the worst case scenario Chilcs with jizzmiester Johnson getting a majority to carry that far. I would hope there's sufficient opposition support to force a transition extension should the WAB get through with whatever rabble is elected.

 

[The Ides of March]

The modern Tory/Brexit Party initiative is a UK version of Trump. The way Trump goes about his business is incredibly echoed in the Tories, right down to Buffoon Johnson, who remember, is actually a Remainer, but saw an opportunity for power. Thankfully, for the sake of the world, it looks like Trump isn't going to survive to a second term. Might not even make it to the end of his first, The Tories have to be voted out, never to return. That's pretty much the only way we are going to get the extremists gone, even if it means a Lib/Lab/Green coalition. Those parties could work together.

I feel mother Nature might have a say in whether Trump goes for a second term.

 

[davecg69]

Beddytare said: ↑
Oh I thought the tories were trying to get a deal now..........Only Farage is for a complete Brexit or have I got that wrong too......?


That's the worst case scenario Chilcs with jizzmiester Johnson getting a majority to carry that far. I would hope there's sufficient opposition support to force a transition extension should the WAB get through with whatever rabble is elected.

Sadly, SJ, I think Chilcs’ scenario is the more likely. There is NO way spaffer will get the WTO deals he’s talking about. It’s almost a certainty that we’ll crash out with no deal if he gets his way. Remember, his backers don’t like the new EU tax directives and many of them are literally banking on sterling crashing in value .......

 

[San Tejón]

This is good.

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[Archers Road]

I am surprised Putin wants anything to do with Trump or Johnson to be honest. Surely, it benefits Russian interests to be on better terms with the EU, after all it is on the doorstep and I would estimate that some 70% of that country´s population live to the west of the Urals. Besides which Russians are daily flying all around Europe doing business, so I just do not get the present situation.

However, like the UK it is dressed up to adore its magnificent military, 8th May is celebrated as VE Day. Having been there, it would be better if Putin invested in its crumbling infrastructure - roads, public buildings, railways,

It suits Russian interests to destabilise the West in any way they can. I don’t actually blame Putin for effectively continuing the Cold War by these means. Recent attempts by NATO countries to extend their influence into Eastern Europe, and the way the USA and Europe have sided with Ukraine in a dispute we should probably stay out out, suggest that Russian distrust of the West is by no means unjustified.

 

[The Ides of March]

I notice the slogan on the Conservative bus is "Let´s Get Brexit Done!" I hope someone in the media has taken them to task for this. because didn´t Johnson and his cabal oppose Brexit when Theresa May put her Withdrawal Bill to Parliament because if he had supported her, Brexit would have been done. So in the South Hants area, Suella Braverman and Royston Smith need to be taken to task for delaying Brexit instead of heaping all the blame on the opposition parties for the delay.

 

[Kaito]

It suits Russian interests to destabilise the West in any way they can. I don’t actually blame Putin for effectively continuing the Cold War by these means. Recent attempts by NATO countries to extend their influence into Eastern Europe, and the way the USA and Europe have sided with Ukraine in a dispute we should probably stay out out, suggest that Russian distrust of the West is by no means unjustified.

Absolutely spot on. With the USA relentlessly pushing at Russian territory, no one should be surprised that Russia will push back. The USA are doing exactly the same in the South China Sea to China. History will show the USA as one of the greatest aggressors since WW2. With Trump in the USA and Johnson in the UK, you couldn't ask for more divisive, disconnected and ineffective governments. Why would Putin even bother attacking the west in a military conflict when it can devour itself with these idiots in positions of power?

This is well worth a watch....

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[MIsaints]

The modern Tory/Brexit Party initiative is a UK version of Trump. The way Trump goes about his business is incredibly echoed in the Tories, right down to Buffoon Johnson, who remember, is actually a Remainer, but saw an opportunity for power. Thankfully, for the sake of the world, it looks like Trump isn't going to survive to a second term. Might not even make it to the end of his first, The Tories have to be voted out, never to return. That's pretty much the only way we are going to get the extremists gone, even if it means a Lib/Lab/Green coalition. Those parties could work together.

Unfortunately Trump will finish his first term. No way he gets impeached because his party controls the senate. Can’t see enough of them going against him to get through the senate. His party and the ones that vote republican still think he is making America great again.

 

[Schad]

It suits Russian interests to destabilise the West in any way they can. I don’t actually blame Putin for effectively continuing the Cold War by these means. Recent attempts by NATO countries to extend their influence into Eastern Europe, and the way the USA and Europe have sided with Ukraine in a dispute we should probably stay out out, suggest that Russian distrust of the West is by no means unjustified.

I'm generally the last to back US foreign policy, but the former Bloc states have done as much wooing of NATO as NATO has of them, and for good reason...the value-added of being under the umbrella for those states exceeds their strategic value for the US and Europe, really. Allowing the annexation of Crimea and occupation of the Donbass to go unchecked really isn't an option, because it would legitimize Russia's assertions of decades-departed territorial claims, which would gravely jeopardize the security of the Baltics, who are NATO members.

 

[Archers Road]

I'm generally the last to back US foreign policy, but the former Bloc states have done as much wooing of NATO as NATO has of them, and for good reason...the value-added of being under the umbrella for those states exceeds their strategic value for the US and Europe, really. Allowing the annexation of Crimea and occupation of the Donbass to go unchecked really isn't an option, because it would legitimize Russia's assertions of decades-departed territorial claims, which would gravely jeopardize the security of the Baltics, who are NATO members.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of their territorial claim, Russia was never going to accept losing control of the Crimea. They fought the Ottomans, the Turks, the French and the British for control of that peninsula; Sevastapol is their only western deep water port that doesn't freeze up in winter. It's population has always been predominantly Russian, and it was only in the hands of the newly independent Ukraine because of an administrative decision taken during the Soviet era.

Understand that and you get a different perspective on what you call annexation and occupation. Russia's old Tsarist empire is breaking up, her European power and influence are declining. From a Moscovite perspective, the Eastern European threat is not from Russia, it's to her.

 

[San Tejón]

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