Off Topic Politics Thread

[ChilcoSaint]

Beddy/other leave voters,

How are you feeling now that operation yellowhammer has revealed "project fear" was actually "project common sense"?

Still want to go through with a no deal even though it would cause unprecedented damage to the UK?

Not to mention the billions staked by hedge funds on no deal Brexit!

 

[VocalMinority]

Just finished reading the document.
the document details whether an assumption will happen, likely happen, may happen, or happen in a worse case scenario.
Anyone saying everything in there is a worse case scenario is talking bollocks.

Section on economy and Northern Ireland

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[Osvaldorama]

Not even to mention that a serving PM has unlawfully lied to the queen, in order to suspend parliament, so that he doesn't face scrutiny for his actions.

This is all absolutely mental.

 

[fatletiss]

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How do I take this? Genuine information or a piece of journalism?

Is it illegal, just immoral or companies gambling on an expected outcome?

I don’t know enough here to judge, before I jump in and understand it’s full value.

 

[The Ides of March]

Found this on Facebook, people obviously read this take it as fact and the bandwagon starts.......






I just got through reading the Lisbon treaty. OMG!!!!!!

WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK TERESA MAYS DEAL IS BAD, JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIN
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anynore.

Nothing wrong with the Lisbon Treaty. Nobody loses their personal or individual liberties and besides which it Will help bridge the gap between the ricer and poorer regions of Europe, so Northern Ireland will be a beneficiary

 

[Beddy]

Still want to go through with a no deal even though it would cause unprecedented damage to the UK?

For the record..............I voted leave as you know...........But have said so many times I accepted at the time when we joined the concept of a common market. None of the stuff since then. If we went back to that kind of agreement with the EU then I would be happy. I have never said to leave without an agreement. However If the EU want to play hardball then leaving without a deal, is the only option. It hurts them almost as much as it hurts us. I'm not sure what the heck the problem is with the borders in NI. I personally don't have a problem with open borders to the EU. If places like Switzerland and the like can have an open border why can't we?
Oh...and for the record also ...........I am no supporter of Boris................But that doesn't mean I don't think he can't get a deal there is one to be had, but not as long as the French keep poking their noses in as I believe they would use their veto again just as they did for years before we joined...........There is nothing anyone can say that will quell my doubts...............As I say I base my feelings on dealings I have had in the past with the EU. I don't trust them...sorry you will just have to except that this man will never be persuaded otherwise

 

[San Tejón]

How do I take this? Genuine information or a piece of journalism?

Is it illegal, just immoral or companies gambling on an expected outcome?

I don’t know enough here to judge, before I jump in and understand it’s full value.

Like you I’m not sure where this lies but could it not be considered to be insider trading, that is, if I am correct, illegal?
Especially if people driving a no deal Brexit stand to make money from it, directly or indirectly.

 

[San Tejón]

Not even to mention that a serving PM has unlawfully lied to the queen, in order to suspend parliament, so that he doesn't face scrutiny for his actions.

This is all absolutely mental.

What concerns me, about this, is that I am already reading reports that top legal counsel believes that the Supreme Court will find in favour of the government, when they pass judgment.
Are they already reviewing the evidence, or does that only happen when it goes before them?
If the former, will the actual hearing just be a formality based on not hearing argument?

 

[VocalMinority]

For the record..............I voted leave as you know...........But have said so many times I accepted at the time when we joined the concept of a common market. None of the stuff since then. If we went back to that kind of agreement with the EU then I would be happy. I have never said to leave without an agreement. However If the EU want to play hardball then leaving without a deal, is the only option. It hurts them almost as much as it hurts us. I'm not sure what the heck the problem is with the borders in NI. I personally don't have a problem with open borders to the EU. If places like Switzerland and the like can have an open border why can't we?
Oh...and for the record also ...........I am no supporter of Boris................But that doesn't mean I don't think he can't get a deal there is one to be had, but not as long as the French keep poking their noses in as I believe they would use their veto again just as they did for years before we joined...........There is nothing anyone can say that will quell my doubts...............As I say I base my feelings on dealings I have had in the past with the EU. I don't trust them...sorry you will just have to except that this man will never be persuaded otherwise

EU is in no way playing hardball. They have given us way more than their policy said they should, such as having a third party state in the middle of the EU customs territory. As well as us using a technical extension meant for sorting out final details for us to simply argue with ourselves some more.
France didn't veto any of this, they've been more supportive than I would have been. I would have refused an extension without an election, referendum or promise of a deal.
We're the ones who have refused every realistic border deal. And yellowhammer documents confirm there is no plan for a technology solution.

But dont let reality get in the way of your prejudices.

 

[Beddy]

EU is in no way playing hardball. They have given us way more than their policy said they should, such as having a third party state in the middle of the EU customs territory. As well as us using a technical extension meant for sorting out final details for us to simply argue with ourselves some more.
France didn't veto any of this, they've been more supportive than I would have been. I would have refused an extension without an election, referendum or promise of a deal.
We're the ones who have refused every realistic border deal. And yellowhammer documents confirm there is no plan for a technology solution.

But dont let reality get in the way of your prejudices.

You really think I'm prejudice?................. also not based on reality?..........Gee wiz mister you have no idea...........

 

[----HistoryRepeating----]

I think you put your point across very well Beddy. I think there's a considerable number of people who think the same, but are scared to express it in public. The divide has become too toxic.
I no longer believe in the people operating on our behalf. So that puts me in the 'lets call the whole thing off' category. Not that it will help now. It's going to get a lot worse.

 

[San Tejón]

Worth a watch.

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[ChilcoSaint]

What concerns me, about this, is that I am already reading reports that top legal counsel believes that the Supreme Court will find in favour of the government, when they pass judgment.
Are they already reviewing the evidence, or does that only happen when it goes before them?
If the former, will the actual hearing just be a formality based on not hearing argument?

The 3 Law Lords of the Scottish Court of Session who made the judgement yesterday represent a higher court than the one which turned down the Gina Miller case last week. Unless there is new evidence which back up the government’s case, it would be almost unthinkable that the Supreme Court would overturn the Scottish Court.

But who knows in this crazy world we have been thrown into by the Tory clowns?

 

[Beddy]

I think you put your point across very well Beddy. I think there's a considerable number of people who think the same, but are scared to express it in public. The divide has become too toxic.
I no longer believe in the people operating on our behalf. So that puts me in the 'lets call the whole thing off' category. Not that it will help now. It's going to get a lot worse.

Man you've hit the nail on the head..............I too have my doubts.........I don't trust the tories and certainly not labour..........I'm not too happy with the Libdems either I'm doubtful I will ever vote again for any of the main parties. The loony party is looking great at the moment........

 

[VocalMinority]

You really think I'm prejudice?................. also not based on reality?..........Gee wiz mister you have no idea...........

Yes, you come across as very prejudiced.

The way you keep bringing up how France kept refusing us entry to the EU close to 50 years ago when the granted us entry with very favourable terms including giving us many powers they themselves dont have is a good example of your prejudice.


I specifically get annoyed when you bring up bollocks about France as I have a close friend who French and currently works as a financial controller for a major Belgian energy supplier. I've known him since I was 15 taught him English and he taught me economics. While it is obviously idiotic to base your view of a country solely based on a mates opinion as everyone is fallible. I've discussed politics with him for a long time. He can explain French and EU position and the economic reasons for it, and has proven he can predict future positions and situations with decent accuracy.
Its from discussions with him I get a lot of my ideas on how we could best work together to create a better Europe.

So when you continuously demonize France based I reasons I know aren't true(at least your public ones) and then say it is because you don't trust them.
Obviously it's going to frustrate me and sound like prejudice.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

How do I take this? Genuine information or a piece of journalism?

Is it illegal, just immoral or companies gambling on an expected outcome?

I don’t know enough here to judge, before I jump in and understand it’s full value.

Looks like genuine information gleaned by good old-fashioned investigative journalism. Byline Times is a respectable outlet who have several big scoops to their credit since forming in 2015. Here’s the full article:
https://bylinetimes.com/2019/09/11/...al-crash-out-by-boris-johnsons-leave-backers/

Hedge fund shorting isn’t illegal by any means, it’s merely another facet of the wonderful capitalist system we live in. As for immoral, well you decide. Backing a candidate for the empty Prime Minister job with huge donations, giving him instructions to achieve a no deal Brexit, and then staking billions on that happening. Lovely jubbly.

 

[fatletiss]

For the record..............I voted leave as you know...........But have said so many times I accepted at the time when we joined the concept of a common market. None of the stuff since then. If we went back to that kind of agreement with the EU then I would be happy. I have never said to leave without an agreement. However If the EU want to play hardball then leaving without a deal, is the only option. It hurts them almost as much as it hurts us. I'm not sure what the heck the problem is with the borders in NI. I personally don't have a problem with open borders to the EU. If places like Switzerland and the like can have an open border why can't we?
Oh...and for the record also ...........I am no supporter of Boris................But that doesn't mean I don't think he can't get a deal there is one to be had, but not as long as the French keep poking their noses in as I believe they would use their veto again just as they did for years before we joined...........There is nothing anyone can say that will quell my doubts...............As I say I base my feelings on dealings I have had in the past with the EU. I don't trust them...sorry you will just have to except that this man will never be persuaded otherwise

Closed then. shame.

 

[fatletiss]

Like you I’m not sure where this lies but could it not be considered to be insider trading, that is, if I am correct, illegal?
Especially if people driving a no deal Brexit stand to make money from it, directly or indirectly.

That was my instinct but could do with some confirmation before I lambast that buffoon

 

[fatletiss]

You really think I'm prejudice?................. also not based on reality?..........Gee wiz mister you have no idea...........

I think he may believe that you are not prepared to consider the situation today based on some experiences you have had in the past (your words). I’d call that closed minded. Others may say another thing.

 

[Beddy]

Yes, you come across as very prejudiced.

The way you keep bringing up how France kept refusing us entry to the EU close to 50 years ago when the granted us entry with very favourable terms including giving us many powers they themselves dont have is a good example of your prejudice.


I specifically get annoyed when you bring up bollocks about France as I have a close friend who French and currently works as a financial controller for a major Belgian energy supplier. I've known him since I was 15 taught him English and he taught me economics. While it is obviously idiotic to base your view of a country solely based on a mates opinion as everyone is fallible. I've discussed politics with him for a long time. He can explain French and EU position and the economic reasons for it, and has proven he can predict future positions and situations with decent accuracy.
Its from discussions with him I get a lot of my ideas on how we could best work together to create a better Europe.

So when you continuously demonize France based I reasons I know aren't true(at least your public ones) and then say it is because you don't trust them.
Obviously it's going to frustrate me and sound like prejudice.

Strewth mate.........You think I'm prejudice? You're not of course? Do you really think I too don't have French friends? Do you really think I have not discussed Brexit with them and pretty well as many nationalities you can think of. Incidentally if you pop up to the airport a bit sharpish you just might bump into them. two of which were staying with me over the last 5 days. When Im talking about the French.......... I'm talking about the hierarchy....... their politicians. Just for the record according to my friends they are of the opinion that a majority of ordinary French people would like a deal.........Does that surprise you?