Actually you are totally wrong about what I read.........I'm well aware that I have different opinions and ideas than some of you on here. I don't read right wing, left wing or any wing of political views. My views maybe wrong, they maybe obscure to you........but I remind you, I too have a right to a view and a right to air them. The difference is I don't go round telling everyone their views are wrong. Or they read the wrong stuff, I accept I could be wrong, you guys do not, or at least that is the way you come over.
Off Topic Politics Thread
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Actually you are totally wrong about what I read.........I'm well aware that I have different opinions and ideas than some of you on here. I don't read right wing, left wing or any wing of political views. My views maybe wrong, they maybe obscure to you........but I remind you, I too have a right to a view and a right to air them. The difference is I don't go round telling everyone their views are wrong. Or they read the wrong stuff, I accept I could be wrong, you guys do not, or at least that is the way you come over.
That is how democracy works. It's why right wing and left wing are still fighting it out for over 300 years of parliament with no permanent winner. It's also why the third Reich was not democratic despite its leader being voted in. It's also why all the elective monarchies were not democratic despite having leaders voted in.
Democracies require the ability to change decisions otherwise it is not a democracy.
All parliament is doing is representing what people voted for in the referendum. 52 - 48 is a clear vote for the softest Brexit possible. Basically all of those 48% would chose a soft Brexit over no deal and a large bunch of those 52% . All of those 52% need to work together to have a majority Yet no dealers refuse to compromise and are dragging their heels to get what they want, voting against leaving more times than remainers who are trying to honour the result if the referendum with a deal.
Yet some people actually believe all this BS that its remainers fault that we have not left. There's so much denial.
I want a second referendum because it is not clear from the first vote whether there is a method of leaving preferred to remain, and it's clear opinion could have changed and as such it is more democratic to take another poll, and basically required to let politicians know how they want to proceed.
If we start denying people the right to change their mind, then our democracy is down the ****ter. Might as well go back to a monarchy.
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It was a fraudulently won referendum, with 17.4 million people or 26% of the population as a whole, 37% of the electorate voting leave, 16.1 voted to stay far to tight a majority for such a momentous decision. No deal is not the "will of the people" as Johnson and his cronies bleat. It may be that further investigations will nullify the vresult. A second referendum is the least we should have.
Edmund Burke. This to.
“Parliament is not a congress of ambassadors from different and hostile interests; which interests each must maintain, as an agent and advocate, against other agents and advocates; but parliament is a deliberative assembly of our nation, with one interest, that of the whole; where, not local purposes, not local prejudices ought to guide, but the general good, resulting from the general reason of the whole. You choose a member indeed; but when you have chosen him, he is not a member of Bristol, but he is a member of parliament”.
Why would it be totally disregarding the first vote? We have had 3 and a half years of debate and discussion because of the first vote. It has most certainly not been disregarded. Clearly something was a miss with the public, but equally clearly, it wasn’t thought out well and hasn’t been able to be sorted.... so another vote has to be a sensible option.
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Sorry Beddy, but if you believe that you must only post and not read. I’ve spent three to four years asking to know the benefits. I’ve asked question after question. On here. To my Dad. To my leavers mates. I don’t get answers, I get sound bites.
“We’ve recovered before.”
“Let’s put the Great back into Great Britain”
“They need us more than we need them”
“We don’t need their crap laws”
“We can govern our own land”
“Our fisherman need protecting”
And tris one for you:
“The French didn’t want us in in the first place!”
I just can’t find a leaver who will give me a to and fro discussion, answering my questions. Originally I stated that I probably didn’t know enough, so was open to be persuaded away from what I believed (the status quo seemed to work and make sense to me, so I voted against changing that), but nobody can offer me anything.
The politicians who led leave originally, fecked off until there was a chance to stir more trouble and now one of them is trying every tactic possible as PM to drive us out anyhow and he has missed the obvious tactic: convince us with facts, figures and plans that this is the best way to go. Instead he is behaving like a spoiled brat who will do anything to get his way.
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Whatever your political beliefs, or whether you're for or against brexit, what is happening is terrible.
A deadlocked parliament, which refused to agree a deal and now refuses to call an election to try and break the deadlock doesn't serve the country in any way.
It wouldn't surprise me to see the Tories polling way ahead in a few prorogued weeks, using "Labour are holding up brexit" rhetoric in every single paper.
So many awful decisions have led us here, with May and now Bojo desperately clinging to power, to the nation's detriment. There isn't a single party that has come out of this with any credit, really. Conservatives right at the bottom of the list though.
A deadlocked parliament, which refused to agree a deal and now refuses to call an election to try and break the deadlock doesn't serve the country in any way.
It wouldn't surprise me to see the Tories polling way ahead in a few prorogued weeks, using "Labour are holding up brexit" rhetoric in every single paper.
So many awful decisions have led us here, with May and now Bojo desperately clinging to power, to the nation's detriment. There isn't a single party that has come out of this with any credit, really. Conservatives right at the bottom of the list though.
The opposition aren’t refusing an election. They are tactically delaying it, as any sound opponents would, in order to improve their chances of winning when it does happen.
As for the papers rallying against Labour, that happens every day of the year because the majority of the media is owned by right wing tax dodgers who would sooner destroy this country rather than let a party come to power that would make them pay taxes.
The last time Labour took down a Tory government was when Murdoch switched sides and took the Sun and News of the World readers with him, which is why I have always believed that we don’t get the government we need. We get the government that the media need.
For those who say they would vote Lib Dem because of their Remain stance, should you be worried about the following?
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The difference between us is I have based my opinions on experience in my own and my families direct dealings with the EU. You indeed may have a different experience. I’m not going to try to persuade anyone they are wrong. There is nothing I can tell you that you don’t already know. You and others keep bringing up things that are facts as far as you see it. I also have mentioned facts however you and others make out that they are not important but to others they are. All I ask is that you except we have a different point of view. I don’t ask you to change your mind just to except a different view point.
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And when leavers do try to point out a problem with the EU, I ask them how leaving would improve that situation and they rarely have an answer.
I know, it's like calling the defender of a siege a coward for not abandoning their castle and charging the attackers.
Yet some people actually do believe the opposition don't want an election.
You do have a tendency to say you have facts to back you up but then not provide them.
I don’t know how credible this guy is, but he has tweeted this.
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Meanwhile, in the EU, the European Commission (the body that makes EU laws) has named 27 Germans to represent Europe from November 1st. Only kidding, one member from each country, 13 women and 14 men.