Off Topic Politics Thread

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Archers Road said:
When was the last time you read or heard anything positive from Corbyn (rhetorical question)? That isn’t because he never says anything worth hearing - it’s because no branch of the media, print or TV, ever reports anything that doesn’t suit their own, incredibly biased narrative.
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I watch most PMQs and I've watched Corbyn miss open goals time after time after time after time after time after time after time. I watched as, for months and months after the Brexit vote, he didn't ask a single question on the subject. Instead, we'd get "Jenny, from Wolverhampton, asks..." That's not the job of the leader of the opposition. Their job is to hold the government to account. And instead Corbyn watched as Rome burned.

I'm furious. He's just not doing his job. I want him to succeed but he simply isn't.

By all means kneejerk blame the right-wing media but this is the unfiltered, direct experience of this tiny sample of one human being watching someone's actions and words directly.

Vin
 
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Onionman said:
I watch most PMQs and I've watched Corbyn miss open goals time after time after time after time after time after time after time. I watched as, for months and months after the Brexit vote, he didn't ask a single question on the subject. Instead, we'd get "Jenny, from Wolverhampton, asks..." That's not the job of the leader of the opposition. Their job is to hold the government to account. And instead Corbyn watched as Rome burned.

I'm furious. He's just not doing his job. I want him to succeed but he simply isn't.

By all means kneejerk blame the right-wing media but this is the unfiltered, direct experience of this tiny sample of one human being watching someone's actions and words directly.

Vin
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I agree 100%, but don’t forget there is a core of up to 40 or so Labour MP’s from Leave-voting constituencies who are persisting in putting their constituency before their country. They need to be reminded, as does Corbyn, that nationally 65% of Labour voters voted Remain, and that therefore the majority of people who voted Leave in their constituencies would probably never vote Labour anyway. These MP’s, along with Len McCluskie and other Lexiteers on the NEC, are determined to bring about Brexit, because of the historical opposition of the EU to nationalisation of utilities and the rail industry. I heard Caroline Flint on a recent Brexitcast say that she and the rest of the 40 would probably back whatever ramshackle deal Boris lashes together, and then in her own words, “a no-deal exit wouldn’t be my fault”.

Corbyn is caught in a futile attempt to square a circle which doesn’t need squaring. Whatever other important objectives the Labour Party has, they are less immediately urgent than stopping Brexit completely. Everything else, even drastic measures against climate change, is less important in the short term.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
I agree 100%, but don’t forget there is a core of up to 40 or so Labour MP’s from Leave-voting constituencies who are persisting in putting their constituency before their country.
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Yes, and I think it's entirely fair to question whether Corbyn is part of that group. I'll go one step further and say it's questionable whether Corbyn is even loyal to the leave section of Labour or if he only cares about himself.

There's no question he was put in a tough position. Everyone is. There's no clear majority for the country or even within some of the parties. Corbyn was in much the same position as May.

But there were ways in which Corbyn could have used his leadership to bring the leave Labour side in line, or to at least broker a deal where everyone agrees you have to get vote against whatever the racist, far right people are doing and then figure out the rest later. Instead, he constantly teased sympathy with the leavers, tried to push for some kind of pie-in-the-sky agreement with May, while at the same time undercutting her at every turn to make any such agreement impossible.

You had a remainer on the Tory side, who was ostensibly negotiating for a Brexit and somehow convincing people she could get it done. And you had a leaver on the Labour side, who was ostensibly negotiation to stay in and somehow convincing people he could get it done. The whole thing was preposterous. I see them as two sides of the same coin, promising everything to everyone while taking a hardline against the other side mainly because being against someone required less courage or leadership than actually taking a stance for yourself. They were cowards, both of them.
 
A Welsh farmer, who will be voting in the Brecon by-election, has proclaimed his disappointment at Buffoon putting his livelihood at risk, with a No Deal Brexit.
He originally voted Leave.
He still wants to leave, but he can’t support Bufoon’s hard line Brexit.
So he’s going to vote for the Brexit Party. <doh>
Does he not realise that they are even more hardline than Buffoon?
You couldn’t make it up.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Yes, and I think it's entirely fair to question whether Corbyn is part of that group. I'll go one step further and say it's questionable whether Corbyn is even loyal to the leave section of Labour or if he only cares about himself.

There's no question he was put in a tough position. Everyone is. There's no clear majority for the country or even within some of the parties. Corbyn was in much the same position as May.

But there were ways in which Corbyn could have used his leadership to bring the leave Labour side in line, or to at least broker a deal where everyone agrees you have to get vote against whatever the racist, far right people are doing and then figure out the rest later. Instead, he constantly teased sympathy with the leavers, tried to push for some kind of pie-in-the-sky agreement with May, while at the same time undercutting her at every turn to make any such agreement impossible.

You had a remainer on the Tory side, who was ostensibly negotiating for a Brexit and somehow convincing people she could get it done. And you had a leaver on the Labour side, who was ostensibly negotiation to stay in and somehow convincing people he could get it done. The whole thing was preposterous. I see them as two sides of the same coin, promising everything to everyone while taking a hardline against the other side mainly because being against someone required less courage or leadership than actually taking a stance for yourself. They were cowards, both of them.
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In response to your first paragraph, two points; first, I think you have completely misjudged Jeremy Corbyn’s character if you think he is putting himself or his own interests first.
And secondly, he represents a constituency with one of the most pro-Remain electorates in the country.

What you see is what you get with JC; a bit dogmatic perhaps, possibly idealistic rather than pragmatic, and certainly cynical about the European Union. But absolutely a man of principle, and a committed democrat (small d, for our American friends).

When JC says someone has to re-unite a divided Britain, he means it. And when he says he sympathises with Leave-voting working class regions (like the one @ImpSaint lives in) who feel left behind by globalisation, he means that too.
 
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Well then he should realise that he has to make a choice. He is going to have to disappoint either those Labour voters who supported Leave or the far bigger bulk of voters who support Remain. I jumped ship to the LD's a couple of months back. I don't like all of their policies but at least I do know what they are. And before someone quotes Austerity that was almost a decade back, enough water has flowed under the bridge since then to make a reassessment

Personally I would far rather Corbyn stick to his Leave opinion, which if he is as principled as you say he will do. He spent fifty years being anti EU so why change now? At least that way all the Remain vote can go to the LD's and Brexit will be dead in the water.
 
St Badger said:
A Welsh farmer, who will be voting in the Brecon by-election, has proclaimed his disappointment at Buffoon putting his livelihood at risk, with a No Deal Brexit.
He originally voted Leave.
He still wants to leave, but he can’t support Bufoon’s hard line Brexit.
So he’s going to vote for the Brexit Party. <doh>
Does he not realise that they are even more hardline than Buffoon?
You couldn’t make it up.
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Welsh farmers have been voting like turkeys for Christmas. A significant amount of money that returns from the EU is directed at vulnerable parts of Wales, including Welsh farmers. My sympathy runs very thin when, despite all the data, people can behave so stupidly.

Still, that farmer will find out to his cost. The problem is, us Remainers will too.
 
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People like that Brexit voting farmer comprise a large part of the Leave cohort. It's not nice to say it but I have seen amongst many of my acquaintances their complete and utter lack of knowledge of the situation when supporting Brexit. It sounds elitist I know but it's axiomatic that the Leavers lack the understanding of the situation they are voting for...."It's just project fear..innit?"
 
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Farked19 said:
People like that Brexit voting farmer comprise a large part of the Leave cohort. It's not nice to say it but I have seen amongst many of my acquaintances their complete and utter lack of knowledge of the situation when supporting Brexit. It sounds elitist I know but it's axiomatic that the Leavers lack the understanding of the situation they are voting for...."It's just project fear..innit?"
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This is the age of stupid mate.

I watched a news item the other night, where a bunch of guys were being interviewed in a Workingmen’s Club in Barnsley, about why they had voted to leave the EU. “We’re not stupid people”, they exclaimed, and I thought - “Okay, maybe not completely stupid. But you’ve certainly been misled about your own interests. In fact you’ve been misled by a bunch of upper class clowns claiming to speak for the common man - which is a bit stupid of you, tbh”.
 
This might be interesting to you. It's a conversation about BBC bias and the progress towards a united federal Europe. BTW, this is an intelligent, rational conversation, which I disagree with, because I am an inclusionist, not a separatist, but at least one can see the process of thought:

You must log in or register to see media
There are other videos which you can pursue if you want.

​
 
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TheSecondStain said:
This might be interesting to you. It's a conversation about BBC bias and the progress towards a united federal Europe. BTW, this is an intelligent, rational conversation, which I disagree with, because I am an inclusionist, not a separatist, but at least one can see the process of thought:

You must log in or register to see media
There are other videos which you can pursue if you want.

​
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It lost me after the part where they were talking talking about how all media is liberal and then 5 seconds later were saying how it was wrong to report with a bias <doh>.

Yeah i didn't get very far.


When they say media I am guessing they just mean news and similar in this instance rather than fictional books and the like. A large part of reporting the news is interpreting facts for the people who read what you present.
Mostly, people won't understand if you just dump a unedited legal document without background for example. You need to explain what it means and why it is important. And that inevitably introduces subjectivity and therefore bias.

Even choosing what you think is worthy of reporting introduces bias.

Realistically it's not possible to report properly without introducing some form of bias.

As an example. Try to do a write up on the statistics of a football player, say ward prowse, and what they mean and not have the possibility of somebody disagreeing with your interpretation. It's really not possible.

As I said before, the BBC have a set of rules on how they report and what the class as important is in writing in their charter. If you just want the facts without interpretation on this argument you can look there and try to interpret them yourself.



This is just some of the rant I bottled up after only a couple of minutes watching that video, I'm not sure I can watch more <laugh>
 
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