Off Topic Politics Thread

[San Tejón]

Listened to Alistair Campbell on LBC today. I have to say that everything he said re:Corbyn makes perfect sense to me as a lifelong Laboyr supporter. The way that he has (not) reacted to the elevation of Johnson to PM says it all really. He pointed out that with the election of each new Tory leader they mounted a campaign to discredit him, even to the extent of being accused of anti Semitism after portraying Michael Howard as ***in.

Surely Corbyn should have come out fighting and instantly rebutted Pfeffel's claims. FFS the c*** is even telling Welsh sheep farmers about to be wiped out by his No Deal policy that everything in the garden is rosy. Labour need a competent leader not a dozy grandad intent on pottering about on his allotment.

He definitely needs to step up to the plate and start hitting back, but there are times when he does do just that, but it doesn’t get widely reported owing to the majority of the media outlets being Tory supporters/donors.
At PMQ there is plenty of opportunity to refute the claims made by the PM, with facts proving the lies, yet they tend to slip by him. Maybe he/his front bench need to be more proactive in expecting certain responses so they can knock them back and give them the opportunity to, in effect, call the PM a liar.
Maybe he just needs to respond in such an outrageous way the media can’t ignore it.
Such as.
“If I may answer your response with another question. Why don’t you feck off you lying bastard?”

 

[StJabbo1]

I know of a few pensioners that have joined their children abroad in Aussie and the states. In both cases they have suggested that the exchange rates have become so bad that they have had to rely on their savings just to live. Trouble is which ever way this goes it is going to take 2/3 years for it to recover to a reasonable rate if then..........

I'm fortunate in that in addition to my UK pension I have a Dutch pension and have moved my UK personal pensions into a QROPS (Qualifying Recognised Overseas Pension Scheme). There are however overseas pensioners relying on UK funds and medical support who voted in 2016 to leave. Voting for a pay cut and loss of UK EHIC so having to pay medical insurance to cover costs in their country of residence. Absolutely ****ing bonkers.

 

[TheSecondStain]

The problem with Jeremy is that he's a decent human being, not a streetfighter. He will not start name-calling. He will only talk of the opposition's professional failings. If he was a streetfighter he'd go on about the Buffoon being obese, a self-server, an opportunist, not interested in anyone but himself, an out-of-touch clown born with a silver spoon up his arse, a thick-head - all of which would be true [not literally with the placement of the silver spoon]. But Jeremy hails from a time when politicians didn't throw personal abuse at each other. And he's right, of course - we are wrong to expect him to be a streetfighter. Beause politics should be about finding ways to come together and working actively to make people's lives better. Not throwing insults 4m across the Parliament floor.

 

[San Tejón]

This is embarrassing. The government equalities office the least fair workplace in Whitehall.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/government-equalities-office-least-fair-18797619

 

[Farked19]

The problem with Jeremy is that he's a decent human being, not a streetfighter. He will not start name-calling. He will only talk of the opposition's professional failings. If he was a streetfighter he'd go on about the Buffoon being obese, a self-server, an opportunist, not interested in anyone but himself, an out-of-touch clown born with a silver spoon up his arse, a thick-head - all of which would be true [not literally with the placement of the silver spoon]. But Jeremy hails from a time when politicians didn't throw personal abuse at each other. And he's right, of course - we are wrong to expect him to be a streetfighter. Beause politics should be about finding ways to come together and working actively to make people's lives better. Not throwing insults 4m across the Parliament floor.

I don't know how much it is that yes a decent person and how much that he doesn't have it in him to be beastly in response to opponents. What I do know is that Pfeffel is vulnerable to a combative street fighter who could probably destabilise him and force errors. I don't buy this theory about the media being entirely pro Tory and not reporting the facts. F we had someone along the style of the late Denis Healey then I think we might see an entirely different view of things. There are people in Labour who are capable of this style of knockabout politics but unfortunately they don't fit the mould required by the Labour puppet masters. I think we are seeing the end of Labour as a major political force and it's largely down to poor leadership.i currently find Ian Blackford of the SNP the strongest voice in parliament, a far more effective opposition leader.

 

[TheSecondStain]

I don't know how much it is that yes a decent person and how much that he doesn't have it in him to be beastly in response to opponents. What I do know is that Pfeffel is vulnerable to a combative street fighter who could probably destabilise him and force errors. I don't buy this theory about the media being entirely pro Tory and not reporting the facts. F we had someone along the style of the late Denis Healey then I think we might see an entirely different view of things. There are people in Labour who are capable of this style of knockabout politics but unfortunately they don't fit the mould required by the Labour puppet masters. I think we are seeing the end of Labour as a major political force and it's largely down to poor leadership.i currently find Ian Blackford of the SNP the strongest voice in parliament, a far more effective opposition leader.

Well, this is kind of the agreement here. We wish Jeremy was a little more street-wise as the buffoon is there for the taking. The other day in Parliament Corbyn was pretty good. I hope he gets a taste for it. and he doesn't have to get nasty. The Tories are so shot full of holes you could drive a double-decker bus through their policies [whatever they happen to be - I don't think they quite know].

 

[ChilcoSaint]

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[TheSecondStain]

I think I would quite happily tell Rees-Mogg to **** off over a comma placement. Shakespeare and Dickens are my literature/grammar gods. Not effing R-M.

 

[Archers Road]

I don't know how much it is that yes a decent person and how much that he doesn't have it in him to be beastly in response to opponents. What I do know is that Pfeffel is vulnerable to a combative street fighter who could probably destabilise him and force errors. I don't buy this theory about the media being entirely pro Tory and not reporting the facts. F we had someone along the style of the late Denis Healey then I think we might see an entirely different view of things. There are people in Labour who are capable of this style of knockabout politics but unfortunately they don't fit the mould required by the Labour puppet masters. I think we are seeing the end of Labour as a major political force and it's largely down to poor leadership.i currently find Ian Blackford of the SNP the strongest voice in parliament, a far more effective opposition leader.

Tony Benn always said politics should be about principles, not personalities. Corbyn clearly holds a similar view.

I tend to agree with them; for the last 50 years politics has descended into a personality contest to the extent that the US has a reality TV star as President, and the U.K. has a former presenter of Have I Got News For You as PM. This is not a good thing.

 

[Farked19]

And Boris, JRM, the charming Mark Francois et al would firmly agree. They would love nothing more than the Labour Party to remain under the control of people who have no drive or direction while they keep ideologically clean hands. Let grandad potter on his allotment while Britain burns.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

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[Archers Road]

And Boris, JRM, the charming Mark Francois et al would firmly agree. They would love nothing more than the Labour Party to remain under the control of people who have no drive or direction while they keep ideologically clean hands. Let grandad potter on his allotment while Britain burns.

It’s not Corbyn’s fault Britain is burning

 

[davecg69]

It’s not Corbyn’s fault Britain is burning

Personally, I think he has to take some responsibility. If he’d come out against the government and taken a clear Remain stand, Labour would have completely cleaned out the fascists .... sorry, I mean the Tories.
Sadly, Jeremy dislikes the EU and, secretly, wants out too, so he’s in a cleft stick. He needs to realise he’s holding the party back and step aside for someone who could annihilate Johnson and his sidekicks. If he doesn’t, then I see a complete change in the English (we’ll be 4 separate countries if we go out of the EU, I reckon) political landscape. We’ll have Remain and Lib Dems championed by those who want(ed) to remain and Farage’s brownshirts for the racists, etc .......

 

[tiggermaster]

It’s not Corbyn’s fault Britain is burning

Sadly though, the Labour Party is so low in the polls after a decade of austerity and the catastrophe that is brexit one does have to question leadership qualities or lack of.

 

[Onionman]

It’s not Corbyn’s fault Britain is burning

It is entirely Corbyn's fault that, at a time when both the country and the party in government are in the worst political mess I've seen in my lifetime, an utter comedy of errors, he's been unable to oppose them effectively. It's not the Tories fault, it's not the media's fault, it's not the voters' fault. The fault lies squarely at Corbyn's feet. If he was even halfway effective he'd be dozens of points ahead in the opinion polls.

Vin

 

[StJabbo1]

Personally, I think he has to take some responsibility. If he’d come out against the government and taken a clear Remain stand, Labour would have completely cleaned out the fascists .... sorry, I mean the Tories.
Sadly, Jeremy dislikes the EU and, secretly, wants out too, so he’s in a cleft stick. He needs to realise he’s holding the party back and step aside for someone who could annihilate Johnson and his sidekicks. If he doesn’t, then I see a complete change in the English (we’ll be 4 separate countries if we go out of the EU, I reckon) political landscape. We’ll have Remain and Lib Dems championed by those who want(ed) to remain and Farage’s brownshirts for the racists, etc .......

I'm disappointed with Corbyn and didn't realise his leave leanings were so strong. With the party too for not pushing the remain stance. It seems a bit institutionalised.
I would have liked the all remain parties to have had a single candidate policy for the MEP elections. I think the number of Farage's dirtbox MEPs would have been considerably less and the size of the remain majority far more evident. Didn't happen, I now want to see, first of all no deal scotched up the spaffer's rusty followed by brexit delay for a general election to bring in a government with a mandate to negotiate our staying in the EU and work with all members to bring about the necessary reforms. Ah well you can't always get what want, but sometimes you get what you need. Here's hoping.

 

[SaintinSerbia]

I think we''ll see a more effective JC against Boris. TM just stone walled him, sat down and smirked. Boris will bluster, fluster and look like the idiot he is.

 

[Archers Road]

It is entirely Corbyn's fault that, at a time when both the country and the party in government are in the worst political mess I've seen in my lifetime, an utter comedy of errors, he's been unable to oppose them effectively. It's not the Tories fault, it's not the media's fault, it's not the voters' fault. The fault lies squarely at Corbyn's feet. If he was even halfway effective he'd be dozens of points ahead in the opinion polls.

Vin

Maybe. Personally, I think you are underestimating the difficulty any democratic socialist leader would have, trying to get anything like a fair hearing from a virulently right wing press.

Even the Guardian made no effort to give the guy a fair hearing. It’s no coincidence imo that Labour polled so much better in the last election than at at any time before or since - because there are different rules governing media representation during an election campaign.

When was the last time you read or heard anything positive from Corbyn (rhetorical question)? That isn’t because he never says anything worth hearing - it’s because no branch of the media, print or TV, ever reports anything that doesn’t suit their own, incredibly biased narrative.

 

[Farked19]

Sadly that isn't going to happen. Jezza just isn't equipped to challenge Pfeffel on anything like equal terms. Archer mentioned Tony Benn a few posts back and it's there that you need to look for this political paralysis. Tony along with Enoch were the two principal political opponents of our membership and all the Leave organisations stem from this base.

Boris and JRM oppose the EU because of their laws protecting human and workplace rights that prevents the full exploitation of the population for profit. Grandad opposes the EU because the very same laws prevent large scale nationalisation. There is a whole slew of people against them ranging through from the decent Tories like Ken Clark and Dominic Grieve, a good half of Labour MP's, the LD's, SNP, Plaid and Sinn Fein.

Sadly the Stalinists that comprise Momentum have captured the management of Labour with the help of people like Len McCluskie. I spent the 80's and 90's opposing Militant but the job is now complete. I am convinced that in the next election the party will collapse like it did in the 30's. Ironically it could be a Farage is our saviour by splitting the Tory vote.

 

[Archers Road]

I think we''ll see a more effective JC against Boris. TM just stone walled him, sat down and smirked. Boris will bluster, fluster and look like the idiot he is.

The coverage of their first clash in the HoC illustrates my earlier point. That debate was reported in a manner that suited an anti Corbyn agenda - the full transcript of what both men said (you can look for it online) tells a very different story to the one reported on the BBC news.