Off Topic Politics Thread

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TheSecondStain said:
Oh yeah, I accept the divide might be as great in the Labour Party. They are the 'broad church' as they trot out occasionally, and that doesn't help with unity.
What's people's opinion of Tom Watson? I think he is capable.
I know this is a dirty thought, but Tony Blair and Gordon Brown famously pulled the Labour party to the centre and eventually won by a relative landslide, and their New Labour party was totally committed to the EU. To extend that thought, I suspect a successful modern version of that party would have taken the UK through the last decade, since the banks crash of 2008, and wouldn't have stamped all over the working class with austerity. A referendum wouldn't have been offered nor demanded.

As I've said before, this is total Tory government f*** up.
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Can’t agree TSS I’m afraid. If we just park Brexit as a hugely divisive factor in the Labour Party for a moment, Labour’s 2015 and 2017 manifestos were probably the most radical of any Labour leadership since 1945. A few highlights: renationalisation of rail, energy, and water; scrapping tuition fees; increasing corporation tax while keeping it lower than most other countries; building a sustainable energy system and working towards a zero-carbon economy; ensuring 30 hours free childcare for all 2 year olds; scrapping the SATS tests in schools which do more harm than good; doubling the number of apprenticeships; banning zero hours contracts; building 100,000 council and housing association homes per year; more security for private renters; and, obviously, reversing the creeping privatisation of the NHS.

So if only Corbyn would pull his finger out and fully back a second referendum, coupled with an enthusiastic and fully-informed campaign for Remain, like most of his MP’s and party members actually want him to, then Labour would be getting back my vote, and I suspect many millions of others who have deserted them in the last couple of years.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
Can’t agree TSS I’m afraid. If we just park Brexit as a hugely divisive factor in the Labour Party for a moment, Labour’s 2015 and 2017 manifestos were probably the most radical of any Labour leadership since 1945. A few highlights: renationalisation of rail, energy, and water; scrapping tuition fees; increasing corporation tax while keeping it lower than most other countries; building a sustainable energy system and working towards a zero-carbon economy; ensuring 30 hours free childcare for all 2 year olds; scrapping the SATS tests in schools which do more harm than good; doubling the number of apprenticeships; banning zero hours contracts; building 100,000 council and housing association homes per year; more security for private renters; and, obviously, reversing the creeping privatisation of the NHS.

So if only Corbyn would pull his finger out and fully back a second referendum, coupled with an enthusiastic and fully-informed campaign for Remain, like most of his MP’s and party members actually want him to, then Labour would be getting back my vote, and I suspect many millions of others who have deserted them in the last couple of years.
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Thing is, I don't think a Corbyn led party is going to win an election on any terms. Primarily due to the fact that he doesn't pull his finger out at appropriate times. He misses opportunities all the time. Don't mistake me, I do want to be wrong.
 
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TheSecondStain said:
Thing is, I don't think a Corbyn led party is going to win an election on any terms. Primarily due to the fact that he doesn't pull his finger out at appropriate times. He misses opportunities all the time. Don't mistake me, I do want to be wrong.
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I’m thinking back to that massive upswing in popularity leading up to the 2017 election, when Labour started way behind in the polls, and they ended up nearly winning the thing by virtue of Corbyn’s popularity with young voters. I agree the opportunity was missed, probably because of the Brexit stance, but it was mainly Corbyn’s personality that created the opportunity in the first place.
 
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TheSecondStain said:
Ordinarily I would say something like 'it makes me ashamed to be British'. But I don't know these people anymore. I don't identify with them at all. To me they are the howling mob. Scum, basically.
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And they don't even look like the poorly educated, deprived and dispossessed (which is no excuse either), just pig ignorant middle class Daily Mail reading bigots, no wonder they support Mirage.
 
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Onionman said:
Guido's wrong again. It's not "quite obvious".

They spent £18,298* during the EU election campaign period, which is when the limits apply.

But you don't really care. And you certainly seem to think that Guido's some kind of fearlessly independent researcher. He's a propagandist, nothing more. Reading his made-up tripe has led many gullible people to vote for Brexit.

Vin

PS. To forestall a predictable tack by you, they have registered to be transparent rather than through need.

* Look it up yourself. I found it, you can too. I know you won't bother as I know you don't care about tedious details if they don't agree with you. Cheerio!
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If that figure is true then fair enough. It was still over the non registered limit which they only did once Guido had been investigating. So of course it is all legal now.
 
VocalMinority said:
So story of the night, Brexit supporters claim victory as they have the largest party, Remainers claim victory because their parties have the highest vote share. Ruling parties crying in a corner.

Right, I'm off to bed.
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Vince Cable stating remainers have the highest vote share despite his campaign detailing up to election day that Tory and Labour were pro Brexit. Seems to be ignoring them from his tally now ;)

Lord Adonis ignoring all commentary on Labour and is including Labour in his remain tallies.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
If Labour would only stop trying to please both sides and firmly state they are a Remain party, as Emily Thornberry was saying last night, they might just get back to a winning position whenever the General Election happens. Brexit might have a hardcore support, but these elections show the majority who voted don’t want it, which Labour have to take as a signal to fully support a second referendum.
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ImpSaint said:
Maybe not 65% in Rotherham though!
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There's no question that Brexit has considerable support among traditional Labour voters in some areas of the country. But what this has made clear is that i) being nominally pro-Brexit isn't enough for those voters, ii) being nominally pro-Brexit really angers the majority of their supporters who didn't want Brexit.

Labour has to pick a side here. And yes, whichever side they pick will result in them losing support in some areas, at least in the short-term. That is, at this point, unavoidable; there is no way to thread that particular needle. But basic common sense suggests that, if they are to pick a side, it's probably best to pick the side that has a resounding majority among your supporters.
 
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Schad said:
There's no question that Brexit has considerable support among traditional Labour voters in some areas of the country. But what this has made clear is that i) being nominally pro-Brexit isn't enough for those voters, ii) being nominally pro-Brexit really angers the majority of their supporters who didn't want Brexit.

Labour has to pick a side here. And yes, whichever side they pick will result in them losing support in some areas, at least in the short-term. That is, at this point, unavoidable; there is no way to thread that particular needle. But basic common sense suggests that, if they are to pick a side, it's probably best to pick the side that has a resounding majority among your supporters.
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That is fine if we are talking purely about totals. How do those totals stand up when you put them into constituencies though? I suspect if Labour went for remain they would probably do better in terms of % and totals but end up with less seats. Suspect rather than know of course.

At this point in time I'm not even sure if they would retrieve the votes they are currently losing to the Lib Dems!!
 
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Theresa May has just issued a Press Statement from her local Pub

When I said I will retire on June 7th - did I say what year? No, I ****in didn't! but now I know who my friends are! Therefore I'm backing Larry for the next Prime Minister. He's cute. He'll get cross party support, knows his way round 10 Downing Street and can smell a rat from 100 yards.
 
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