Off Topic Politics Thread

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----HistoryRepeating---- said:
Please explain in what universe May’s deal = Remain.
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But what has she actually done about leaving?
Some cobbled together deals that everyone hates......is that it?
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If it turns out that all this time she has been playing for time and fudging a deal no one wants in the hope that we end up remaining by default, she will go down in history as a political genius and an utter traitor.

I don’t think she has it in her to be either, but what do I know?
 
Archers Road said:
They are emblematic of the frothy emotional appeal, almost entirely without substance, that the Leave campaign relies upon.

And they are both real examples, presented in the right wing, pro leave media, as tangible benefits of Brexit. I am still yet to hear of a single other tangible benefit. Oh no, tell a lie...something on a bus about millions of pounds a week going into the NHS - how long did it take for that to be disowned?

Actually, the more you look at the promises made by the Leave campaign, the more you realise how utterly dishonest the whole thing was.
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No, we’ve got it all wrong Archers. According to Imps there wasn’t a Leave campaign at all, we were only imagining all those months of utter drivel spouted by Farage, Johnson, and co.
 
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----HistoryRepeating---- said:
I think she'd be glad to lose the job. It's been poisonous since day one.....but she has not helped herself along the way.
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I think she wants the job. God knows why, because it was always impossible and she has made it even harder, but she’s had more than enough opportunities to follow Cameron, Boris, David Davis, Dominic Raab (the man who rejected a deal HE HELPED DRAFT), and all the other architects of this foolishness into the fallout shelter, and she’s still standing.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
Please explain in what universe May’s deal = Remain.

You appear to be losing the plot entirely Imps.
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It is BRINO. All they are discussing in the EU (May's team and the commission/council) is how to use language to say that it isn't BRINO.

IT is in effect a mechanism to make sure that we have lots of promises of leaving but with enough technical machinery to ensure that can never happen.
 
ImpSaint said:
It is BRINO. All they are discussing in the EU (May's team and the commission/council) is how to use language to say that it isn't BRINO.

IT is in effect a mechanism to make sure that we have lots of promises of leaving but with enough technical machinery to ensure that can never happen.
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That’s good then.
 
Archers Road said:
If they get in, they’ll attempt to implement their manifesto. Which means mad far left policies like taking the railways and water board back into public ownership, closing tax loopholes in the City, and raising taxes on the highest earners, to fund increased spending on the NHS, education and the police. That sort of far left nonsense.
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But this is the key point. To implement their manifesto they will undoubtedly need to break the EU 3% rule!!! The same rule they are at the moment trying to flout for France yet enforce in Italy! this is the same rule that meant Blair couldn't borrow on the government books to build his hospitals and schools instead putting it on the credit card via PFI deals to his friends and aquaintances.

How is Corbyn going to be able to implement his manifesto when he will be constrained by the EU 3% deficit rule, constrained by market competition rules that will hinder his renationalisation plans and stop him being able to provide state aid for anything unless it can be proved to be temporary and returnable?

And this ignores totally the consensus (from the experts) that if he tries to tax more he will end up receiving less.
 
Archers Road said:
I think she wants the job. God knows why, because it was always impossible and she has made it even harder, but she’s had more than enough opportunities to follow Cameron, Boris, David Davis, Dominic Raab (the man who rejected a deal HE HELPED DRAFT), and all the other architects of this foolishness into the fallout shelter, and she’s still standing.
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This whole "Davis/Raab" lie has been debunked many times. Even the BBC aren't pushing that angle anymore. They tried for a few days after he resigned before Davis and Raab (and some right minded civil servants) set the record straight.

She didn't even try and pretend with the new guy. Immediately announced when he was appointed that he would be Brexit Secretary but have nothing to do with negotiations.

This is a massive problem not just because May is a control freak and constantly undermines her own ministers (apart from her mate Grayling who undermines himself) but because the HoC is only concerned with internal arithmetic. they have forgotten about the vote and what the vote meant and have returned to internal battles trying to beat each other and hurt each other.

As a member it is laughable the constant congratulatory e-mails that Brandon Lewis sends out to us which may as well be Hans Christian Anderson because what he celebrates as achievements are the exact opposite of how they are received (not just by me.)

We have this new "moderate" Tory group now threatening to force a delay if the deal is voted down which again ignores the actual voters. And thus now Tory internal machinery is creaking into action to try and send a warning shot to them.

We have heard constant "Tory split" for the last 3 years yet the Tories have stayed together. Yes 3 have gone, yes a few more might go but no biggie. Labour could split right down the middle which was something the media ignored all the way through despite it being clearly visible.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/02/tory-grassroots-bid-thwart-brexit-delay
 
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ImpSaint said:
This whole "Davis/Raab" lie has been debunked many times. Even the BBC aren't pushing that angle anymore. They tried for a few days after he resigned before Davis and Raab (and some right minded civil servants) set the record straight.

She didn't even try and pretend with the new guy. Immediately announced when he was appointed that he would be Brexit Secretary but have nothing to do with negotiations.
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My general point was that she could have run and hid with the other catastrophic failures like Davis and Raab, but has chosen not to.
 
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ImpSaint said:
I have a passport. I don't care what colour it is. It will still do the same thing post Brexit as it does now.
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No it won't.

If my kids wave their passport it gives them the right to travel to Europe (as I did) and just get a job (as I did). After Brexit it won't work like that.

My kid's passport today gives them the right to live or study wherever they want in the EU. That'll go.

My passport today gives me the right to retire to anywhere I like in the EU. Not after Brexit, it won't.

My passport today gives me and my kids the right to buy property anywhere we like in the EU. Not going to happen if you get your way.

Vin

PS. I confidently predict a response that misses the point by a mile. A nautical mile, the big one.
 
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ImpSaint said:
You need to read how it all happened and how it changed from prior votes. Effectively he was bulldozed through as the only option with a "yes/no" vote at a time when the EU parliament was thoroughly in favour of "closer union."
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The question was: “was he elected?”

The answer is: “yes”

You keep spinning it your way.
 
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Onionman said:
No it won't.

If my kids wave their passport it gives them the right to travel to Europe (as I did) and just get a job (as I did). After Brexit it won't work like that.

My kid's passport today gives them the right to live or study wherever they want in the EU. That'll go.

My passport today gives me the right to retire to anywhere I like in the EU. Not after Brexit, it won't.

My passport today gives me and my kids the right to buy property anywhere we like in the EU. Not going to happen if you get your way.

Vin

PS. I confidently predict a response that misses the point by a mile. A nautical mile, whether it's the big one.
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Sorry, if I want to travel I just get the appropriate visa whether it's India, USA or Brazil. The passport is the key. I can also buy property anywhere I want with the correct paperwork. The EU will all be accessible under a visa system. Are you suggesting you will not be able to travel anywhere again?
 
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rednright said:
Sorry, if I want to travel I just get the appropriate visa whether it's India, USA or Brazil. The passport is the key. I can also buy property anywhere I want with the correct paperwork. The EU will all be accessible under a visa system. Are you suggesting you will not be able to travel anywhere again?
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Visas cost money and take time. Hardly the same as it is now
 
But worth it if you want to go anywhere. I think we need to agree an ESTA equivalent system that allows for a 2 year period just like the US. I'm certainly not going to stop visiting Europe over the cost of a visa.
 
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