Off Topic Politics Thread

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VocalMinority said:
If it's on Facebook just assume it's fake. I don't just mean that for politics, everything from news stories to people searching for missing pets needs to be taken with a pinch of salt unfortunately. It's worse than even Twitter.
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I read a few of the comments on that post earlier and the amount of people taken in by it was shocking.
Mind you reading the Sun,Mirror,Star etc is no better.
 
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saintrichie123 said:
Found this on Facebook, don’t know if any or all of it is made up or in fact true.



Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
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here's a fairly detailed rebuttal of most of the points in that FB post. I hate FB

http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the-eu-does-not-fund-companies-to-move-jobs-out-of-the-uk/

We've always been lied to by politicians and some media outlets but the freedom that FB has given just about anyone to post whatever unfounded crap they like is ridiculous. Far too many people these days get all their "news" via FB, and never do any fact checking...I guess I'm not really a fan of people either, on the whole.
 
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Rorschach's Journal said:
here's a fairly detailed rebuttal of most of the points in that FB post. I hate FB

http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the-eu-does-not-fund-companies-to-move-jobs-out-of-the-uk/

We've always been lied to by politicians and some media outlets but the freedom that FB has given just about anyone to post whatever unfounded crap they like is ridiculous. Far too many people these days get all their "news" via FB, and never do any fact checking...I guess I'm not really a fan of people either, on the whole.
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Excellent find RJ.....just shows how dangerous Facebook can be with untruths posted on there.
 
Archers Road said:
Cadbury - owned by US company Mondalez - moves some production to Poland in 2017, not 2012. The company states this was a temporary measure. I can’t find any evidence of an E.U. grant?

Ford Transit did indeed move to Turkey. Turkey isn’t in the EU.

Yes, we know about Jaguar Land Rover. Their CEO was on the news the other day, citing Brexit as one reason.

So the first three on that list are bollocks. I’m calling bollocks on the whole thing.
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The Transit one was done with EU approval and EU funding. An £80m loan from the ECB approved by officials including......Arch remainer George Osborne who was on the board at the time.

Jaguar Land rover have been planning to move for over 7 years. Most of their problems are from having most of their product running diesel and their main product being pretty much just the same thing reworked every few years. Plus their prices for what they sell, they have suffered in the "Exec" market when Mercedes, BMW and other luxury saloon makers are much more competitive. But hey, Brexit is an opportune excuse. Nothing to do with diesel becoming bad, the product not being as popular. Lets stick Brexit on the end.

I'm not so sure on the Dyson one either. Why would he have got EU funding. One of the reasons he moved out of the UK in the first place was because of the lobbying by bigger competitors in the EU making regulations that hindered his product. Even now this headline of "moving HQ out of the UK" ignores that the 4,000 UK R&D workers are staying here.

Narratives galore but let's ignore because everything needs blaming on Brexit and anyone who backs Brexit must be destroyed.
 
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Onionman said:
Happily, the internet remembers everything:

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But as for this:

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All I can say is what a ****ing triumph!

Vin
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What has Dyson moving his HQ got to do with the first one? HE still has his R&D in the UK and employs 4,000 people. Has he said he is not going to invest in the UK now? Using one thing to mean something else there without any supporting evidence?
 
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ImpSaint said:
What has Dyson moving his HQ got to do with the first one? HE still has his R&D in the UK and employs 4,000 people. Has he said he is not going to invest in the UK now? Using one thing to mean something else there without any supporting evidence?
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https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1035222/Dyson-electric-cars-Singapore-UK-Brexit

"
Dyson to make electric cars in Singapore instead of UK in new £2.5 billion investment"

The firm had considered opening the new "advanced automotive manufacturing" in the UK but ultimately decided to open it in the Asian country instead.
 
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ImpSaint said:
The Transit one was done with EU approval and EU funding. An £80m loan from the ECB approved by officials including......Arch remainer George Osborne who was on the board at the time.

Jaguar Land rover have been planning to move for over 7 years. Most of their problems are from having most of their product running diesel and their main product being pretty much just the same thing reworked every few years. Plus their prices for what they sell, they have suffered in the "Exec" market when Mercedes, BMW and other luxury saloon makers are much more competitive. But hey, Brexit is an opportune excuse. Nothing to do with diesel becoming bad, the product not being as popular. Lets stick Brexit on the end.

I'm not so sure on the Dyson one either. Why would he have got EU funding. One of the reasons he moved out of the UK in the first place was because of the lobbying by bigger competitors in the EU making regulations that hindered his product. Even now this headline of "moving HQ out of the UK" ignores that the 4,000 UK R&D workers are staying here.

Narratives galore but let's ignore because everything needs blaming on Brexit and anyone who backs Brexit must be destroyed.
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You are wrong on dyson. He left the UK for two main reasons:
1. Lower cost manufacturing
2. Tax (hence he’s now leaving/left Malaysia

Do some research in his funding for his London school, James Dyson foundation and his education/R&D centre in Malmesbury. For “funding” also see “tax relief”

It is and always has been about the money for him.
 
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ImpSaint said:
What has Dyson moving his HQ got to do with the first one? HE still has his R&D in the UK and employs 4,000 people. Has he said he is not going to invest in the UK now? Using one thing to mean something else there without any supporting evidence?
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Mmmm I wonder how his UK tax payments will look soon....

Ask yourself that first question again.

This is a man who triumphs Britain (ignore Brexit for now) and then keeps moving parts of his business away from the UK and therefore his tax contributions. Try and find out how much tax relief he will get for R&D investments.... he’s taking away twice from the country he is allegedly so proud of.

Add in brexit now... I wonder why the man was so keen to support Brexit and why did he care? If Brexit and Britain was so great, why is he not reversing what he has done for years and telling us he’s bringing Dyson back home?

“Vote Brexit and I’ll bring Dyson Home” would have been a true statement of belief
 
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fatletiss said:
Mmmm I wonder how his UK tax payments will look soon....

Ask yourself that first question again.

This is a man who triumphs Britain (ignore Brexit for now) and then keeps moving parts of his business away from the UK and therefore his tax contributions. Try and find out how much tax relief he will get for R&D investments.... he’s taking away twice from the country he is allegedly so proud of.

Add in brexit now... I wonder why the man was so keen to support Brexit and why did he care? If Brexit and Britain was so great, why is he not reversing what he has done for years and telling us he’s bringing Dyson back home?

“Vote Brexit and I’ll bring Dyson Home” would have been a true statement of belief
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If all that is true about Dyson then fine (I have no reason to doubt it, and trust your research on that one*) however I keep hearing from the remain side about we have to accept globalisation for what it is, as a positive etc. Is this not just a globalist doing what globalists do?

*although this article in today's Spectator repeats my suggestion earlier r.e. the EU and his competitors but also talks about how government and EU policy meant that the UK and EU were really to blame for the driverless car investment not ending up here:

"MPs will find it easier to denounce Dyson than ask questions about why his company found it so hard to develop driverless cars in the UK. Two decades ago, Britain was poised to become a global centre of GM technology only to see the industry driven abroad because the EU made it all but impossible to conduct trials."

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/01...ks-the-brexit-opportunity-will-be-squandered/
 
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