Off Topic Politics Thread

[thereisonlyoneno7]

I am no expert in economics, but I have an opinion - just as everyone on here does. We can choose to agree with the BOE reports or disagree.

Let me give a little example to how IMO it will work out if we leave on a no deal or May deal.

Date: 4th November 2018
Venue: City of Manchester Stadium
Manchester City v Saints

We debated this before the game. The pundits and football experts had this in the main as a home win. The odd one thought maybe a draw. Our opinions on this forum went from "we're screwed" to "we'll be alright and may even nick this one".

The facts were that any sane person knew that we were going to lose, and heavily. There was a chance we wouldn't. Some on here would argue till the cows come home that we wouldn't. Then reality set in.

We can all argue about the BOE reports and how we'll be ok out of the EU etc, but the fact is the 'British Empire' isn't what it used to be in the ideal world some are harping back to. The main issue I have is that we as a nation manufacture bugger all now - we rely on imports. Our strength as a nation is our Service Industry. With Brexit, that will go to Europe.

Love or hate the EU, we need them. I know that they need us too, but we need them a lot more. This is 2018, we cant be the country we were in 1974 before we joined - nor the country we were in the 50s and 60s. The world has moved on. It has got a lot smaller with Globalisation.

We may be ok with Brexit, but I fear much like November 4th in Manchester, we won't, and the experts will be right.

 

[Onionman]

I am no expert in economics, but I have an opinion - just as everyone on here does. We can choose to agree with the BOE reports or disagree.

Let me give a little example to how IMO it will work out if we leave on a no deal or May deal.

Date: 4th November 2018
Venue: City of Manchester Stadium
Manchester City v Saints

We debated this before the game. The pundits and football experts had this in the main as a home win. The odd one thought maybe a draw. Our opinions on this forum went from "we're screwed" to "we'll be alright and may even nick this one".

The facts were that any sane person knew that we were going to lose, and heavily. There was a chance we wouldn't. Some on here would argue till the cows come home that we wouldn't. Then reality set in.

We can all argue about the BOE reports and how we'll be ok out of the EU etc, but the fact is the 'British Empire' isn't what it used to be in the ideal world some are harping back to. The main issue I have is that we as a nation manufacture bugger all now - we rely on imports. Our strength as a nation is our Service Industry. With Brexit, that will go to Europe.

Love or hate the EU, we need them. I know that they need us too, but we need them a lot more. This is 2018, we cant be the country we were in 1974 before we joined - nor the country we were in the 50s and 60s. The world has moved on. It has got a lot smaller with Globalisation.

We may be ok with Brexit, but I fear much like November 4th in Manchester, we won't, and the experts will be right.

And anyone saying that Leave with no deal will be OK is, in your analogy, a Graves Park United under 12s sunday league team supporter on finding out that they've drawn Barcelona in the cup and expecting the win.

EEA would be liveable but No Deal? It's horrifying.

Vin

 

[Onionman]

You say "we're" turning the tide,I wonder? I live in a different region to you (I think) and I believe a lot of people are so pissed off with Brexit they want it over with.I've heard people claiming they would change their vote to leave so we can move on!
We'll see.

We will indeed. I expect this to go to a second referendum. Why? And what might the result be?

It looks like deadlock in Parliament and even our bloody MPs (except the ERG nutters) won't stand for No Deal. What happens then (I suspect) is that they will realise that a second vote might just get them off the hook.

And then, all the people who are pissed off with it can do what they like. I'm sure people have said what you've mentioned but there are also plenty of people who know they were sold a pup. Untimately I suspect the decider will be that there'll be a youth turnout like you've never seen, pretty much all voting remain. Kids have suddenly realised that voting matters and that it's their futures at stake.

Vin

 

[Onionman]

Well, bugger me. Already spent £1.2Bn on the Galileo GPS system but we're going to dump that cash, back out and build our own. Because every country needs its own GPS system.

(By the way, there's no available radio spectrum space for the proposed British GPS)

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Vin

 

[SaintinSerbia]

In light of the ongoing Brexit debate, I found these voting stats, that quite clearly show that the 18-24 and the 25-49 age groups were most pro Remain.
A new vote would be very interesting, because the younger age group will have new young people now eligible to vote, whereas I have read that 1.5 million people, from the oldest group, have since died.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted

https://newsthump.com/2018/10/18/br...5R6kexU001-SUPqUQqbJuvxUi1TR40IJcgNKJ59k23RIo

 

[San Tejón]

https://newsthump.com/2018/10/18/br...5R6kexU001-SUPqUQqbJuvxUi1TR40IJcgNKJ59k23RIo

That would also herald the end of the Tory party, when you see the age groups that vote for them.
Win-win.

 

[ImpSaint]

I'm sorry but you can't always fall back on "I married someone from Portugal" therefore how can I be racist? (obviously you're not but it's not an argument)

Glad you agree I'm not...........and the "black Foreign wife" is me baiting people ready to call it out as "because I've got a black mate." There are some on here (a lot, probably including me) on here that like to simplify, generalise and stereotype..........plus I am of the sort that likes to stoke the fires so I play the stereotype. While I am antiPC I am not as antiPC as I tend to appear due to me playing devil's advocate.

 

[ImpSaint]

Did they think they were voting for a party that would allow them to sleep more ..: ba boom!

No. They didn't think leaving the EU would reduce numbers of brown faces...and would hurt the hedge funds that pay their pensions.

 

[ImpSaint]

That would also herald the end of the Tory party, when you see the age groups that vote for them.
Win-win.

This has been said for eons yet people don;t seem to understand that those age groups are replenished every day and as we live longer and longer the ratio gets better and better

Maybe it is the lefties that are trying to make sure they stop the expected lifespan from increasing too much?

How long is it till you reach that age group Beefy?

 

[ImpSaint]

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http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/steve-fisher-condorcet?

 

[fatletiss]

Glad you agree I'm not...........and the "black Foreign wife" is me baiting people ready to call it out as "because I've got a black mate." There are some on here (a lot, probably including me) on here that like to simplify, generalise and stereotype..........plus I am of the sort that likes to stoke the fires so I play the stereotype. While I am antiPC I am not as antiPC as I tend to appear due to me playing devil's advocate.

So basically we should ignore everything you type, because it may not really be your view and quite possibly some made up bollox, just for kicks?

 

[Schad]

Polling has been all over the place, which isn't terribly uncommon given that you're doing national-level polls of an issue with serious regional divergence. It's really hard to weight samples of that nature, particularly when doing online polling (as they did for that one).

Here's a Eurobarometer poll from mid-Oct that showed a massive advantage for Remain.
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-second-referendum-remain-would-win-eu-survey-shows/

And a much larger poll from three weeks ago suggesting a 54-46 split for Remain.
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-poll-predicts-swing-to-remain-in-second-brexit-vote/

And another poll released on Sunday showing a 10 point Remain lead.

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It's quite clear that there ought to be a second referendum, however. Simply too important a decision to be made when it's decidedly unclear whether it enjoys majority support.

 

[The Ides of March]

So basically we should ignore everything you type, because it may not really be your view and quite possibly some made up bollox, just for kicks?

He´s only copying the master of bollox, the guy who suddenly finds himself at the front of a race after suddenly turning round to join the alternative marathón going the other way. None other than the soon to be ex-Tory MP for Isleworth, writer and broadcaster extraordinaire - Boris Johnson.

 

[San Tejón]

This has been said for eons yet people don;t seem to understand that those age groups are replenished every day and as we live longer and longer the ratio gets better and better

Maybe it is the lefties that are trying to make sure they stop the expected lifespan from increasing too much?

How long is it till you reach that age group Beefy?

Firstly, my name isn’t Beefy, pimpsaint.

I would disagree with that, simply because the older majority that vote Conservative are also the age group that has most consistently relied on newspapers for daily information, and have allowed their paper of choice to shape their political outlook, over several decades.
Younger people no longer have that attachment to a daily paper, so aren’t tainted by the daily drip feed of political bias, so I can foresee the future statistics changing, especially as the future older generations are more likely, IMO, to be less well off, than many are now.

It will be interesting to see if the Daily Mail changes, in anyway, in the future. Their long standing editor has been replaced by someone, described by one of their on line reporters (a friend of a friend), as “More of a socialist and in favour of Remain”.
I can imagine a few oldies choking on their corn flakes, over a headline that doesn’t demonise foreigners but welcomes them as being good for our society.

 

[Onionman]

From the Daily Mail (given that Brexiters distrust media, I'm sort of assuming this one's OK). Govt has ordered the stockpiling of baby milk in case of a no-deal Brexit.

Not project fear, just the government's own, real, honest-to-goodness plans to stockpile baby formula. In Britain. In 2018.

Is this the Brexit you are looking for?

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Vin

 

[Onionman]

The media seems very (weirdly) quiet on the fact that May's proud boast that her deal stops freedom of movement works both ways. Yes, we can keep Johnny Euroforeigner out of our jobs market. And, in return, Brits won't have freedom of movement to Europe. Result!

Vin

 

[ImpSaint]

So basically we should ignore everything you type, because it may not really be your view and quite possibly some made up bollox, just for kicks?

Nope. Just that I might play up to the character that people know I am not yet feel the need to infer for kicks.

 

[ImpSaint]

Firstly, my name isn’t Beefy, pimpsaint.

I would disagree with that, simply because the older majority that vote Conservative are also the age group that has most consistently relied on newspapers for daily information, and have allowed their paper of choice to shape their political outlook, over several decades.
Younger people no longer have that attachment to a daily paper, so aren’t tainted by the daily drip feed of political bias, so I can foresee the future statistics changing, especially as the future older generations are more likely, IMO, to be less well off, than many are now.

It will be interesting to see if the Daily Mail changes, in anyway, in the future. Their long standing editor has been replaced by someone, described by one of their on line reporters (a friend of a friend), as “More of a socialist and in favour of Remain”.
I can imagine a few oldies choking on their corn flakes, over a headline that doesn’t demonise foreigners but welcomes them as being good for our society.

Sorry for gettingt your (user)name wrong. I don;t know why I had beefy in my mind. Either too much Mull(er)ed wine or that your avatars are similar / same colour.

I think you'll find the Daily Mail will change in the future but it is more likely to be back to where it was pre the new editor. they have gone all pro the deal and anti Brexiters which is shedding readership by the boatload. I think you might be hoping that they would become in the future what they have already become overnight.

 

[San Tejón]

Sorry for gettingt your (user)name wrong. I don;t know why I had beefy in my mind. Either too much Mull(er)ed wine or that your avatars are similar / same colour.

I think you'll find the Daily Mail will change in the future but it is more likely to be back to where it was pre the new editor. they have gone all pro the deal and anti Brexiters which is shedding readership by the boatload. I think you might be hoping that they would become in the future what they have already become overnight.

They are also, so I am told, facing an exodus of reporters, which might have something to do with the new editor.
I am sure their tax dodging owners will keep a close eye on the new editor, and ensure there is at least one or two immigrant blaming headlines per week.

 

[ImpSaint]

They are also, so I am told, facing an exodus of reporters, which might have something to do with the new editor.
I am sure their tax dodging owners will keep a close eye on the new editor, and ensure there is at least one or two immigrant blaming headlines per week.

The tax dodging part is a cheap shot. The saintly Guardian survives off the sale of auto trader...........which it shifted the money out to avoid tax. There aren;t many angels in this world, just me and a few others.