Off Topic Politics Thread

[ImpSaint]

She’s still trying to shake off the reputation she gained for the poor interviews she gave in the last election campaign due to her struggle with her Type 2 Diabetes, but the reality is she’s a perfectly sound and articulate Shadow Home Secretary.

She was the first black woman to be elected an MP, which she should be celebrated for, but many have found it difficult to forgive her for it.

(Not you Archers)

the last sentence is ridiculous. "many"??? You mean a selected small few? Do you really think people attack her because they haven't forgiven her for being black and getting elected?

And the first sentence is typical of modern debate where history is forgotten. she has had a reputation for poor interviews for years not just the last election.

 

[ImpSaint]

I think if we had a second vote on EU it would be reversed rather than significantly increased as in Abbotts case. But of course leave voters don't believe in second votes when it comes to the EU so we won't know if the public think they have done a good job as you would find out in a democratic process.

Remain voters constantly bang on about the young ]having to live with the consequences of their elders who voted when they couldn't..........Well what about the young who have had to live with the consequences of the first vote? I have had to live with that one for my whole life (and still am.)

Remain voters constantly push this "people are allowed to change their minds."..............Considering how they also say we shouldn;t have been asked in the first place if we had changed our minds that is rich. Why weren't asked if we had changed our minds at any other time since the original vote? Maastricht, Lisbon Treaty? Why is now different? Because you are only bothered if people change their minds if you agree with them.

They have to consider the 48%? What about the losers in the seventies? What consideration was made for them?

These arguments are ridiculous.

Anyway IF there is a "2nd" referendum and IF leave loses (it won't) then I'll look forward to the decider in another couple of years. We could have a referendum every 2 Southampton manager changes.

 

[ImpSaint]

May challenging Corbyn to a live debate, on Brexit, is all beginning to make sense now.
She wants it on the BBC, a channel that is no more than a propaganda voice for the Conservatives, with a panel made up from members of the public, who will, no doubt, be “very carefully screened” to ensure that they are May sympathisers.
Hey, she will probably have access to their questions too, so that she can rehearse her answers.
And then who will be the host. Andrew Neill, Andrew Marr, Dimbleby etc? All confirmed Tory supporters.
I prefer Corbyn’s choice. ITV, with just him and May, head to head.

No surprise Corbyn wants ITV. BBC hates Corbyn. Would be great to see ITV take it instead and a 2 fingers up to the BBC.

The May supporting angle is strange though. The BBC hate the May deal. They want it to be remain so a stitch up is not on the cards there. Just that Corbyn doesn''t like the BBC.

Another waste of time though. They will both just reel off practised lines, try and fit in stuff that isn't answering a question from audience, chair or their opponent. All done to see who can get the most out of context shares, retweets and likes. Hurrah for the modern world.

 

[ImpSaint]

Yeah, MP's being the one i was getting at as it wasn't the first vote on Dianne Abbott. And you get to change your mind if an mp isn't working out. You're not stuck with a single decision.

Not for the majority of people stuck with safe shoe in MPs

 

[Schad]

Anyway IF there is a "2nd" referendum and IF leave loses (it won't) then I'll look forward to the decider in another couple of years. We could have a referendum every 2 Southampton manager changes.

If there's a second vote and Leave wins again, at least no one can say that the UK doesn't deserve its fate.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

If there's a second vote and Leave wins again, at least no one can say that the UK doesn't deserve its fate.

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Onionman]

Not all M's are terrorists but all terrorists are M's. It is a pretty common "trot out" for those who might make idiots of themselves chanting "free Tommy" (not the Who one) or having a shouting match with the UAF.

I'm not putting the whole quote up because it will flag up on google and be taken out of the context I have written it in but you can guess the M I'm sure.

My point is that both your one and this one are the same statement with differing subjects and neither is true.

That's an utterly illogical argument. Just because it's the same wording with differing subjects doesn't mean that if one's false, so is the other. Let's try it with a phrase in the same format that is true. "Not all mammals are cats but all cats are mammals". See, "the same statement with differing subjects" but definitely true. And it's true because of the content, not the wording.

Plenty of terrorists to my (and your) knowledge, have been catholics and protestants. So the phrase "all terrorists are muslims" is demonstrably untrue. I've found terrorists who are not muslims, so the statement is disproved.

All you need to do to demolish my claim is find me racists who voted remain.

Vin

 

[Onionman]

If there's a second vote and Leave wins again, at least no one can say that the UK doesn't deserve its fate.

Indeed. But the number of people who say, with a straight face, that leaving wthout a deal will be fine scares me witless.

If there's a second vote and we do leave with no deal, I will also be of the opinion that we fully deserve it. The people who vote for it will need to see what happens to their jobs and to their kids' prospects. Then they just might start to believe that sometimes experts do know what they are talking about.

At that point I predict fifteen years before we're back on our knees begging for a place in the EU.

Vin

 

[Beddy]

Strewth Vin you really don't have any faith in your country do you? Although my heart says fully out.......I'm prepared to compromise to a partial out if every one thinks that is the best deal we can get. Just a thought and a reminder.......practically all the Bank of England forecasts have been way out over the last few years. All over exaggerated..........but no doubt you won't agree so we will have to agree to disagree on a few points..................

 

[ImpSaint]

That's an utterly illogical argument. Just because it's the same wording with differing subjects doesn't mean that if one's false, so is the other. Let's try it with a phrase in the same format that is true. "Not all mammals are cats but all cats are mammals". See, "the same statement with differing subjects" but definitely true. And it's true because of the content, not the wording.

Plenty of terrorists to my (and your) knowledge, have been catholics and protestants. So the phrase "all terrorists are muslims" is demonstrably untrue. I've found terrorists who are not muslims, so the statement is disproved.

All you need to do to demolish my claim is find me racists who voted remain.

Vin

I didn't say the format meant it was false. I merely stated it was an identical argument to one that Islama phobes / racists use and on a seperate note that both were false. Your mammals / Cats one is quite obviously true.

All you need to do to demolish my claim is find me racists who voted remain.

Come off it. Next we'll be moving to a guilty until proved innocent stance in this country............ignoring that we already seem to have through trial be (social) media.

All I can offer you is myself. Most definitely not racist. I'll let the other leavers on this (Southampton) board defend themselves against your assertion that they must be racist.

 

[ImpSaint]

Strewth Vin you really don't have any faith in your country do you? Although my heart says fully out.......I'm prepared to compromise to a partial out if every one thinks that is the best deal we can get. Just a thought and a reminder.......practically all the Bank of England forecasts have been way out over the last few years. All over exaggerated..........but no doubt you won't agree so we will have to agree to disagree on a few points..................

Even Paul Krugman the economist (who is a staunch anti-Brexiter) has rubbishedd the BoE statement. Funnily he described it as a "Black box story."

 

[Archers Road]

Even Paul Krugman the economist (who is a staunch anti-Brexiter) has rubbishedd the BoE statement. Funnily he described it as a "Black box story."

So you don’t think a no-deal Brexit would cause immeasurable damage to our economy?

 

[ImpSaint]

So you don’t think a no-deal Brexit would cause immeasurable damage to our economy?

Quite probably, which is why the government shills shouldn't have spent the last 2 years in this charade of a negotiation resulting in this dodgy deal. They should have actually been negotiating.

To get to where we are now where the PM is actually pushing for a deal worse than remaining..............and pushing a deal or no Brexit choice is all the evidence needed to see that this has been a complete stitch up from the start.........and the next post...........

 

[ImpSaint]

"Here we go again – the Government is spending taxpayers’ money promoting its EU deal online"

https://www.conservativehome.com/th...ayers-money-promoting-its-eu-deal-online.html

 

[Archers Road]

Quite probably, which is why the government shills shouldn't have spent the last 2 years in this charade of a negotiation resulting in this dodgy deal. They should have actually been negotiating.

To get to where we are now where the PM is actually pushing for a deal worse than remaining..............and pushing a deal or no Brexit choice is all the evidence needed to see that this has been a complete stitch up from the start.........and the next post...........

Well we can agree on one thing then Imps; the whole Brexit farce has been an utter shambles that can only end in disaster.

Unless, of course, the country comes to it’s collective senses and calls the whole thing off.

 

[ImpSaint]

Well we can agree on one thing then Imps; the whole Brexit farce has been an utter shambles that can only end in disaster.

Unless, of course, the country comes to it’s collective senses and calls the whole thing off.

In 11 days time she will lose a vote and heavily. There are only 2 options from there.
1 - She is removed
2 - She announces a general election.

Option 1 needs doing quickly because she has form for announcing to the country things without telling her party first and thus she could theoretically march out of Downing St straight after the vote and announce like last time she was going to try for a GE without telling any of her party. This of course is more likely her trying to save herself than actually thinking that a GE is a good idea for the country. Would be very hard to remove a PM that has just announce a GE!!!

Considering the way she is touring the country and pushing this deal very heavily (spending more taxpayers money to promote it as well) look very much like a pre GE campaign!!!!

 

[VocalMinority]

Remain voters constantly bang on about the young ]having to live with the consequences of their elders who voted when they couldn't..........Well what about the young who have had to live with the consequences of the first vote? I have had to live with that one for my whole life (and still am.)

Remain voters constantly push this "people are allowed to change their minds."..............Considering how they also say we shouldn;t have been asked in the first place if we had changed our minds that is rich. Why weren't asked if we had changed our minds at any other time since the original vote? Maastricht, Lisbon Treaty? Why is now different? Because you are only bothered if people change their minds if you agree with them.

They have to consider the 48%? What about the losers in the seventies? What consideration was made for them?

These arguments are ridiculous.

Anyway IF there is a "2nd" referendum and IF leave loses (it won't) then I'll look forward to the decider in another couple of years. We could have a referendum every 2 Southampton manager changes.

From my perspective its because there wasn't a chance of winning until recently. no point in having a referendum you won't win. 67% win is a bit different to a 52% win lol. if you wanted a referendum earlier you really should have campaigned harder to show your support for it.

If leave had a super-majority like the result of the 70's referendum i wouldn't be arguing for a second referendum. I thought i made that point clear in previous posts. Requiring a super majority would also stop deciders like you mentioned in your final point.

 

[Onionman]

I didn't say the format meant it was false. I merely stated it was an identical argument to one that Islama phobes / racists use and on a seperate note that both were false. Your mammals / Cats one is quite obviously true.



Come off it. Next we'll be moving to a guilty until proved innocent stance in this country............ignoring that we already seem to have through trial be (social) media.

All I can offer you is myself. Most definitely not racist. I'll let the other leavers on this (Southampton) board defend themselves against your assertion that they must be racist.

Your display of your powers of reasoning here tell me a great deal about how you assess arguments and your ability to process logic.

I asked you to find me a racist who voted remain and the example you give me is ... wait for it... you, a non-racist who voted leave.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? I'm not claiming that all people who voted leave are racist. Do you understand? Is it going in? Read it again and again until it sinks in. I've said that, what, three times recently and about ten times in the past. I'm not claiming that all people who voted leave are racist.


Once you've got it, apologise for suggesting that I've said the leavers on this board are racist.

Vin

P.S. I'm not claiming that all people who voted leave are racist

 

[Onionman]

Strewth Vin you really don't have any faith in your country do you? Although my heart says fully out.......I'm prepared to compromise to a partial out if every one thinks that is the best deal we can get. Just a thought and a reminder.......practically all the Bank of England forecasts have been way out over the last few years. All over exaggerated..........but no doubt you won't agree so we will have to agree to disagree on a few points..................

Beddy. It's nothing to do with faith in my country. It's to do with how international and trade law works. They don't care about your or my faith in anything or our beliefs or attitudes. They just are as they are and determine what will happen if we leave without a deal.

As for your dislike of BoE forecasts, on which forecasts do you base your views? Pop a link to one and I promise I'll read it.

Vin

 

[ImpSaint]

Your display of your powers of reasoning here tell me a great deal about how you assess arguments and your ability to process logic.

I asked you to find me a racist who voted remain and the example you give me is ... wait for it... you, a non-racist who voted leave.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? I'm not claiming that all people who voted leave are racist. Do you understand? Is it going in? Read it again and again until it sinks in. I've said that, what, three times recently and about ten times in the past. I'm not claiming that all people who voted leave are racist.


Once you've got it, apologise for suggesting that I've said the leavers on this board are racist.

Vin

P.S. I'm not claiming that all people who voted leave are racist

Yep I realised that shortly after typing it. But then I thought I would leave it as you might be reading it and just take the response. No problem offering apologies for my mistake there.

I still don't believe that no racists voted remain. After all everybody keeps saying that everybody voted for different reasons. I'm sure there will be racists that had vested interests in remaining and thus voted remain. Equally there may be racists that believed project fear mkI and thus voted remain.