Off Topic Politics Thread

[ImpSaint]

Oh dearie me. Do you think that not listening to someone who loves the sound of his own voice enough to come onto the forum of a football team he doesn't watch or comment on is my retreating to an echo chamber? Ignoring someone who is unprepared to deal with facts if they don't fit his narrative; who'll just raise another article of faith about how the media is lying about everything? Ignoring someone so full of himself that he knows what's going on in everyone's mind all over the political spectrum? Ignoring someone whose number was up when he used the phrase MSM in a pejorative manner (uniquely alt-right speakery).

No, I subscribe to feeds and podcasts by people like Rees-Mogg, Fromage et al. You see, I'm interested in the opinions of the ones rushing us headlong into an abyss that makes each of them a great deal of money. In short, I listen to the organ grinders. Missing the tedious ramblings of one of the monkeys doesn't send me into any echo chamber.

Vin

Vin the first 3 sentences could easily describe all of us on here no matter which side they are on.

The MSM bit might sound could for you to chuckle at but it means nothing. I don;t particularly care who came up with it. Lots of people use abbreviations these days AFAIK! Doesn't mean they are automatically extremists or read far right publications. I use it because it is 3 letters and lots of the internet of both sides will use all sorts of abbrevs.

I don;t subscribe to the moggcast. Mogg is very good with words but at the end of the day he could say what he says in those within a couple of minutes rather than take 10-20 minutes saying it. I suppose if you like poetry or the romance of the English Language then it might be worth listening to.

Anyway. I don;t think the MSM <------- lie about everything. I think they do what everyone else does (left/right/centre/mad/sane/far left/right) and misrepresent stuff or mislead.

Take today. BBC and Sky have continued saying all day long that roaming charges will go up. Despite 3 making jokes at Kay Burley's expense as she keeps repeating it and they keep tweeting her that they aren't raising theirs. Vodafone have replied within the threads to posters that they have no plans to raise their charges either. O2 and EE have said they aren't. Yet the media are still saying "roaming charges may go up." So while that statement could be seen as true, until the very last provider says they won't be upping their roaming charges, there has been no mention that many providers have already said they won't be.

If you tune into the 6 o clock news in 5 minutes, you will get the impression that roaming charges are going up. Maybe they will surprise us all and detail that many providers have already stated they won't be on their networks?

Do you not see when we get this sort of scenario that people will start to doubt all the other "warnings/threats?"

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Vin the first 3 sentences could easily describe all of us on here no matter which side they are on.

The MSM bit might sound could for you to chuckle at but it means nothing. I don;t particularly care who came up with it. Lots of people use abbreviations these days AFAIK! Doesn't mean they are automatically extremists or read far right publications. I use it because it is 3 letters and lots of the internet of both sides will use all sorts of abbrevs.

I don;t subscribe to the moggcast. Mogg is very good with words but at the end of the day he could say what he says in those within a couple of minutes rather than take 10-20 minutes saying it. I suppose if you like poetry or the romance of the English Language then it might be worth listening to.

Anyway. I don;t think the MSM <------- lie about everything. I think they do what everyone else does (left/right/centre/mad/sane/far left/right) and misrepresent stuff or mislead.

Take today. BBC and Sky have continued saying all day long that roaming charges will go up. Despite 3 making jokes at Kay Burley's expense as she keeps repeating it and they keep tweeting her that they aren't raising theirs. Vodafone have replied within the threads to posters that they have no plans to raise their charges either. O2 and EE have said they aren't. Yet the media are still saying "roaming charges may go up." So while that statement could be seen as true, until the very last provider says they won't be upping their roaming charges, there has been no mention that many providers have already said they won't be.

If you tune into the 6 o clock news in 5 minutes, you will get the impression that roaming charges are going up. Maybe they will surprise us all and detail that many providers have already stated they won't be on their networks?

Do you not see when we get this sort of scenario that people will start to doubt all the other "warnings/threats?"

Imps, the roaming charges story is straight from the government’s own Brexit mouthpiece Dominic Raab. It’s not, as you seem to be implying, a conspiracy by the BBC and Sky.

 

[davecg69]

Well you need to be telling your local MP what you think because the big names in the Tory party are rushing at breakneck speed towards it and are being given plenty of airtime to spout their nonsense and persuade fools (see posts above) that it'll be fine (there we go with that phrase again).

Because THIS is how it's being reported:

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Vin

The BBC is so actively pro-Brexit, it’s scary. I don’t believe the BBC anymore. I prefer to get my news from overseas media and the internet, as the Beeb just seem to blindly follow the government and their fantasy .....

 

[ImpSaint]

Imps, the roaming charges story is straight from the government’s own Brexit mouthpiece Dominic Raab. It’s not, as you seem to be implying, a conspiracy by the BBC and Sky.

The BBC and Sky were out with this story this morning before the government's papers came out. Sky started saying roaming charges will go up. BBC said the same. By lunch vodafone and EE had replied within Sky reporter's "breaking news" threads that they would not be raising their charges whatever the deal or not. Later the government report came out saying they "could not guarantee" they wouldn't go up.

The "leak" last night led to politicshome and others saying they wouldn;t go up, yet the mainstreammedia<-------decided to ignore that and say they would go up and even after the companies themselves stating they wouldn't be have carried on with their headline albeit BBC changed the slightly to "may go up" after the government's paper was made public.

Considering both are "on the ball" with multitudes of correspondents telling us their insider knowledge. Considering Kay Burley and Beth Rigby from sky have had direct tweets from ee and vodafone in their threads, EE even directly replying to Kay Burley that she could change to EE if she wanted to which Kay Burley replied saying EE coverage was rubbish............you would think they might correct their narrative to be accurate rather than continue (Sky) suggesting they WILL rise (BBC) suggesting MAY rise to actually state "although 4 companies have now stated they will not be at the very least.

 

[davecg69]

How do you know Imps? Have you spoken to all the voters on both sides?

I’ve spoken to a number of people who voted to Leave (discovered that most of my girlfriends’s family voted that way) and, almost to a man, the answer I got when I asked “why?”, was “we’re going to have more money for the NHS” and “we will have control of our own destiny”. Now, these are intelligent people (though one did say, to my horror, “well, it won’t affect pensioners”

So ..... how were people given ALL the facts?

 

[ChilcoSaint]

The BBC and Sky were out with this story this morning before the government's papers came out. Sky started saying roaming charges will go up. BBC said the same. By lunch vodafone and EE had replied within Sky reporter's "breaking news" threads that they would not be raising their charges whatever the deal or not. Later the government report came out saying they "could not guarantee" they wouldn't go up.

The "leak" last night led to politicshome and others saying they wouldn;t go up, yet the mainstreammedia<-------decided to ignore that and say they would go up and even after the companies themselves stating they wouldn't be have carried on with their headline albeit BBC changed the slightly to "may go up" after the government's paper was made public.

Considering both are "on the ball" with multitudes of correspondents telling us their insider knowledge. Considering Kay Burley and Beth Rigby from sky have had direct tweets from ee and vodafone in their threads, EE even directly replying to Kay Burley that she could change to EE if she wanted to which Kay Burley replied saying EE coverage was rubbish............you would think they might correct their narrative to be accurate rather than continue (Sky) suggesting they WILL rise (BBC) suggesting MAY rise to actually state "although 4 companies have now stated they will not be at the very least.

You’re in danger of disappearing up your own conspiracy theory. Try using a few more capitals.

 

[davecg69]

Have those that constantly repeat "people were duped by a message on the bus to thinking £350m would go to the NHS" spoken to all voters?

While you might play devil's advocate, even with Beddytare up above, you know in your mind that it isn't actually true that people thought the whole lot was going to go to the NHS.

You also know the "roaming charges will go up" was not true from the start. You also know that "flights will be grounded" is not true due to international law. We could go on and on and on with the "fear" statements that were and still are downright lies.

It’s nothing to do with international law, Imps. If there’s NO agreement, the open skies agreement between the EU and non-EU ceases to be valid. One hopes fervently that there IS some agreement, so this doesn’t happen, but it is just one of a million (I may be exaggerating a little, but there are plenty) of agreements which need rewriting. Then there’s the border issue ......

 

[ImpSaint]

Sky knew last night and at worst this morning yet still ran with the story today:

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This one is in the same thread as the first one, lower down replied to by vodafone:

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[ImpSaint]

"Sir Vince Cable 'sneaking several Tory MPs into his office' to discuss potential defections to Lib-Dems"

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...potential-defections-to-libdems-a3934951.html

 

[tiggermaster]

"Sir Vince Cable 'sneaking several Tory MPs into his office' to discuss potential defections to Lib-Dems"

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...potential-defections-to-libdems-a3934951.html

Sneaking hey, not inviting or even ushering ,but sneaking. Something damned unpleasant about that Cable guy, he'ed take your grandchildren and pretend he is Father Xmas....

 

[Archers Road]

Sneaking hey, not inviting or even ushering ,but sneaking. Something damned unpleasant about that Cable guy, he'ed take your grandchildren and pretend he is Father Xmas....

I doubt he was the one who chose the word "sneaking". That would be the headline writer in the Standard.

 

[ImpSaint]

The BBC is so actively pro-Brexit, it’s scary. I don’t believe the BBC anymore. I prefer to get my news from overseas media and the internet, as the Beeb just seem to blindly follow the government and their fantasy .....

Question time has 4 remainers and 2 leavers tonight. Also 2 labour seeing as one is the candidate to go up against IDS at the next election. Maybe they are pre-empting things and putting a Corbynite and Blairite on to balance things.

 

[Beddy]

Guys about these Roaming charges............I have been using 3 in the EU and other parts of the world for quite a time before prices were standardised within the EU. I seem to Remember another of the UK providers (vodaphone I think doing the same in the EU) not long after I went to three. All usual charges come out of my uk allowances.
So why would 3 suddenly change. Incidentally I have it in writing from 3 that they have no intention of changing my contract in the coming year. (I have literally just entered a new contract with them) The countries in which I can use 3 are listed which includes the EU.
So I don’t understand why all this rhetoric about the increase in roaming charges in Europe...........
Just another thought all my reps used to have EU SIM cards before they standardised all the charges. So it is not a big deal if they did but can’t see the need for worrying.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Guys about these Roaming charges............I have been using 3 in the EU and other parts of the world for quite a time before prices were standardised within the EU. I seem to Remember another of the UK providers (vodaphone I think doing the same in the EU) not long after I went to three. All usual charges come out of my uk allowances.
So why would 3 suddenly change. Incidentally I have it in writing from 3 that they have no intention of changing my contract in the coming year. (I have literally just entered a new contract with them) The countries in which I can use 3 are listed which includes the EU.
So I don’t understand why all this rhetoric about the increase in roaming charges in Europe...........
Just another thought all my reps used to have EU SIM cards before they standardised all the charges. So it is not a big deal if they did but can’t see the need for worrying.

It was the Tory Brexit Secretary that raised it Beddy, it’s not something the remainers can be blamed for!

 

[ImpSaint]

It was the Tory Brexit Secretary that raised it Beddy, it’s not something the remainers can be blamed for!

It was Sky yesterday (Wednesday.) Raab brought it up today (Thursday.) Sky tried to jump the gun and have stuck to their story all day.

 

[Beddy]

It was the Tory Brexit Secretary that raised it Beddy, it’s not something the remainers can be blamed for!

Strewth mate I don't blame either side for all this mis-information only the MP's...........and for the record.
I agree there has been so much mis information about this whole saga it is easy why people are up in arms about this.
Personally I think the Mp's of all parties should be ashamed of themselves for not giving the full and correct facts in the beginning. It is no wonder why people are confused.
Trouble is most voted I guess on the facts available and as others have said I think immigration had a big part to play. Not for me though as explained earlier.

 

[Beddy]

I see Carney is saying house prices could drop by a 3rd if there is no deal..........If I was a youngster I think I would welcome this as it would give them a better chance of getting in on the housing market.
I really don't know why that man has to make such rash statements. Or is it to send our pound lower so we export a bit more??
So far most of his predictions have not materialised I'm told.........and we have to put up with him for another couple of years!!??
As you gather I am not a fan of his.........

 

[Archers Road]

I see Carney is saying house prices could drop by a 3rd if there is no deal..........If I was a youngster I think I would welcome this as it would give them a better chance of getting in on the housing market.
I really don't know why that man has to make such rash statements. Or is it to send our pound lower so we export a bit more??
So far most of his predictions have not materialised I'm told.........and we have to put up with him for another couple of years!!??
As you gather I am not a fan of his.........

No offence, but I’d rather trust Carney’s judgment on the future of the economy than that of his critics in the right wing press. To date he’s been a safe pair of hands in extremely difficult circumstances and I think we should be fairly grateful that he’s chosen to stay on.

I also think he’s been quite restrained when discussing the inevitable damage Brexit will do to our economy.

As for allowing young people onto the housing ladder, I agree that something needs to be done to solve the housing crisis; but I’m not sure plunging thousands of households into negative equity is the ideal solution.

 

[VocalMinority]

Yeah, people not on the housing ladder yet will be happier about it.
People who are secure financially won't be able to buy a new home but won't otherwise be affected.
People who own a home and have had had something affect their income (for example, brexit) meaning they can't afford their mortgage repayment won't be able to sell and will be made homeless. - i see this a lot with shared ownership properties due to the high monthly costs but the requirement to sell to move out and the fact that the housing association is the one who decides the price of the property (based on a formula). It can cause unsellable houses for people where house prices are decreasing which can be a real issue.

Personally i would hope the government would step in to mitigate that but it would cost a lot.

 

[Beddy]

No offence, but I’d rather trust Carney’s judgment on the future of the economy than that of his critics in the right wing press. To date he’s been a safe pair of hands in extremely difficult circumstances and I think we should be fairly grateful that he’s chosen to stay on.

I also think he’s been quite restrained when discussing the inevitable damage Brexit will do to our economy.

As for allowing young people onto the housing ladder, I agree that something needs to be done to solve the housing crisis; but I’m not sure plunging thousands of households into negative equity is the ideal solution.

No offence taken mate........I hear you about the negative equity..........and as I have intimated he has got a few predictions close to accurate. For the life of me I cannot see why that should happen so dramatically. We have had major crisis before and house prices have gone down but not as much as that.
I just feel a lot of his statements are headline grabbers to keep the £ low.
You are right of course now would not be the best time for him to release the reigns. I'm told he stated before the Brexit vote that if the country voted out. We would have immediate massive unemployment and yet unemployment is actually going down. My main complaint with him is as soon as the pound starts to rise against the main currencies he opens his big mouth and down comes the pound again!!
In truth Non of us really know what will happen if there is no agreement and for a while things will be tough. But not surmountable we will get over it.