They said they would ask for it? That means nothing. The £39bn is not an amount we are legally obliged to pay.
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They said they would ask for it? That means nothing. The £39bn is not an amount we are legally obliged to pay.
Have those that constantly repeat "people were duped by a message on the bus to thinking £350m would go to the NHS" spoken to all voters?
While you might play devil's advocate, even with Beddytare up above, you know in your mind that it isn't actually true that people thought the whole lot was going to go to the NHS.
You also know the "roaming charges will go up" was not true from the start. You also know that "flights will be grounded" is not true due to international law. We could go on and on and on with the "fear" statements that were and still are downright lies.
This is a negotiation. whether we are legally obliged to pay it means nothing. We voted out of EU rules and to give power to the UK government to do things ad hoc and that's what we're doing. If you wanted this to be done within a legal framework we should have stayed in the EU. You voted for this.
I know it is a negotiation but the whole premise of the remain side has been to portray this "divorce bill" as something we have to pay, not something we are negotiating. The EU itself decided they would be a child and refuse to negotiate further until we agreed to their "divorce bills." I get this strategy daily from my 7 year old and she does not win.
We should not have agreed the divorce bill before negotiating the rest of the deal. That is why Raab is there on TV today saying that we will not be paying that if we go to WTO due to not getting a deal. Like he says, we do have a legal obligation to pay some money but it is a fraction of the £39bn we have agreed.
Yet we have BBC "ill-informed" challenging that assertion saying we are legally obliged to pay the £39bn. Victoria Derbyshire just said that again to Bernard Jenkins.
I agree with you that it is a negotiation. Yes we should be behaving like adults and negotiating. The problem is the tactics shown above. There was never any intent to negotiate from the EU. That is how they always deal with things. Not all their fault because we haven't covered ourselves in glory but the presentation is entirely that the UK is messing this up and the EU is the adult in the room when the reality is they "negotiate" with the same strategy as my 7 year old, stamping their feet.
Your post means one of two things:
1. Either Imps was wrong and they did mean they intended to spend that on the NHS, or
2. Imps is right and You believe the message they said on the bus and in which case, Imps must be reading this thinking you are stupid.
Actually Fats it was a genuine question..........As I have said before I do not always believe what mp's say. I did hear it mentioned somewhere along the line by I think was an mp.......my response then was I'll believe that when I see it. I just hadn't heard any mp reject that statement.
They started at 80, we started at 0. met in the middle at 40. EU are simply in a stronger negotiating position than us. Remain camp and EU have been saying that from the start, being big and united gives you the ability to do that. Ignore reality and cry about how it was in your perfect vision all you want but that won't change anything. Leavers voted to have the UK government do this negotiation and this is what we have negotiated. You can call them incompetent but you voted to give this incompetent government more power.
They started at 80 (100?) when we are only obliged to pay circa £17bn. We should have just stayed there and said "no, that is what we are obliged to pay." but no, May and her little clique of advisors were already floating the £40bn figure around to test the water within days.
Luckily our government isn't that childish and recognises when we at a disadvantage rather than crying about it like a 7 year old that would never win.
Not at all. The legal obligations are not the negotiation. The negotiation should've been over the FTA. Not negotiating how much money for nothing we added on top of the legal obligations.
"yes we will pay you our legal obligations, lets discuss the FTA."
It was the EU trying to add loads of money on top that we are not legally obliged to pay. They were instantly on the front foot because we caved in agreeing to give them money for nothing over and above what we had to pay without even knowing what an FTA would look like.
That's why we were at a disadvantage. Because we went in begging instead of negotiating. I'm not suggesting going in like Trump at all but not with cap in hand like we did. It set us up for the last 2 years in a position of weakness.
We are at a disadvantage because they have a lot bigger economy than us, a lot bigger population than us, have a lot of services we want to have access to, is beneficial for them to punish us even at a negative cost to themselves, and now weirdly have a more united negotiating position than us. Its effectively comparing the power of a parent to a child, which is why it looks childish when we try to put our foot down.
I'm afraid when you do away with legal framework, it comes down to power, which we don't have as much of. Dog eat dog and all that.
I'm afraid when you do away with legal framework, it comes down to power, which we don't have as much of. Dog eat dog and all that.
I like this. The Delhi Mail.
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Oh dearie me. Do you think that not listening to someone who loves the sound of his own voice enough to come onto the forum of a football team he doesn't watch or comment on is my retreating to an echo chamber? Ignoring someone who is unprepared to deal with facts if they don't fit his narrative; who'll just raise another article of faith about how the media is lying about everything? Ignoring someone so full of himself that he knows what's going on in everyone's mind all over the political spectrum? Ignoring someone whose number was up when he used the phrase MSM in a pejorative manner (uniquely alt-right speakery).
No, I subscribe to feeds and podcasts by people like Rees-Mogg, Fromage et al. You see, I'm interested in the opinions of the ones rushing us headlong into an abyss that makes each of them a great deal of money. In short, I listen to the organ grinders. Missing the tedious ramblings of one of the monkeys doesn't send me into any echo chamber.
Vin
So it's all those pesky remsiners fault Brexit is turning into a howling **** up of epic proportions? If everyone has just got behind the government's plan (the one they dtill can't agree on in cabinet) everything would have been dandy?
I'm sure you don't really believe that nonsense Imps.
Exactly. Even simple stay or go returned a resounding endorsement for "don't know".
Consulting an ill informed public on something our elected representatives should have been deciding, was always a bas idea.
I didn't say it was all the fault of the remainers. Cherry pick what I say to suit your argument. It has not helped at all though allied with a government determined to try and fudge it headed by a PM that only listens to a few advisors.