Off Topic Politics Thread

[West Kent Saint]

Been saying that for years but then half the politicians in there on all sides aren't there for the public good anymore. It's all about themselves and what they can get. They fight for good causes for their own glory. A few are very good actors but when they "achieve" something for a good cause they tour the studios to soak up the plaudits and make sure they get the credit on their CVs (people's memories) so that they can always refer back to their successes ignoring the things they failed on, ignored or plain and simple hid away because it suits.

I know people will come on here and say Jeremy or Caroline Lucas are different but they aren't. They may not be anywhere near as bad as some and certainly not as bad as blaggers like Abbott but they still sell themselves out if it suits them.

Have there ever been any that aren't in it for themselves? Jeremy just sounds like another populist to me. Selling a grand vision that he knows won;t be achieved and a chunk of it he doesn't even believe in.

Abbott has only been in it for herself utilising her black roots and minorities to blag her way to the champagne lifestyle. Others use different tactics and strategies to get there but that is their goal. Their own egos and the trappings that go with it. Sell it to the people and let them believe they are trying to help us but they don't care.

What we now have across the western world are all sorts of parties utilising populism. Who can convince the public they care the most wins the pot of gold.

Normally the best actors get the top job. Blair, Cameron, Clegg were masters of the expressions. Angry face, concerned face, disgusted face, sympathetic face, caring face. Brown not so good. Farron's acting is terrible. May is absolutely wooden. Maybe Corbyn is one of the top top actors? Ahmed Sheik puts on a good concerned face too while she drives custom to her law firm fighting the cases she is "so concerned" about.

Quite possibly a lot of assumptions there. Are all politicians categorically led by their self serving ego? You might be right, its what turns me off politics in general I think, but then I'm probably an idealist. What is ever the truth. Problem is the short term-ism of it all. Its about getting in, is there ever a long game played? Maybe greens can only stick to what they believe in knowing that they will not get voted in.

There are too many restraining factors to running an honest campaign including the media circus and big corporate society, but others will know a lot more than me.

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

'Hi Jeremy? Jeremy? Yep it's, erm, bad news I'm afraid.....Diane's just done another TV interview'

'Oh for f*** sake, how did she get out?!'

'Sorry Jeremy, we were too busy having a meltdown about Virgil going to Liveprool we forgot ot keep watch on her for a few minutes.'

'Well.... how badly did it go?'

'......We'll see you in 2022 when we'll have another go at this election thing.'

Diane Abbott.

 

[Archers Road]

He might win in 2022 once Brexit is done. Brexit will give May a minimum of 5% extra and at the beginning of the campaign before she messed up maybe as much as 15% extra. Jeremy will be happy with that too. He wants Brexit but can't play that card because of his party's pressure and because he is utilising the youth vote. "Not my fault" he can say and the students can keep voting for him.

Whoever wins this election is going to be so horrendously handicapped by the self inflicted disaster that is Brexit that it will take a huge effort of will to think of anything else for even one hour a day. Every waking moment will be consumed by the need to renegotiate an unprecedented volume of soon to be defunct legislative clauses effecting every boat, plane and lorry entering and leaving the UK. It's a goat-**** that will destroy whoever forms the next government.

Part of me thinks the Tories caused this disaster, let them stay and sort it out. But then I think of everything the hapless May has done to antagonise our European partners. At least with Corbyn approaching negotiations in a spirit of co-operation and reconciliation, we have a chance of constructive dialogue rather than a Saloon bar poker game with the UK Govt playing the unconvincing role of the doomed Doc Holliday.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I don't think Diane Abbott will make a blind bit of difference to Labour's campaign. Theresa May has made this a presidential election between herself and Corbyn, so the Tories can't start picking on Jeremy's colleagues. Of course the media will be all over it, but the thousands that are turning out every time Corbyn appears won't care.

 

[VocalMinority]

Do you have a link for that assessment?

Documentary ages ago where crime figures were explained. I'm sure I could google you something but that would just be self comfirmation bias.

In my job we get requests from police all the time to add additional locks or stronger doors to residents homes because they know there are dangerous people after them but can't do anything about it.

Most are just issues with the system but some of these cases I have no doubt could have been prevented if the police had more resourced. And again I have first hand experience from my job at the number of people who refuse to go to the police after they let them down.

 

[Puck]

I don't know whether Corbyn himself will still be Labour leader in 2022. He loves a campaign but I've never felt he really likes the day to day stuff about being leader. He'll also be 73 by the next election. I've suspected for a while (though it's not much more than a gut feeling) that his aim here is to get enough support to stay in post, try and change the Labour leadership election rules and then stand aside in favour of someone else, possibly McDonnell. Seems like he won't have too much difficulty doing that.

 

[VVD]

I don't think Diane Abbott will make a blind bit of difference to Labour's campaign. Theresa May has made this a presidential election between herself and Corbyn, so the Tories can't start picking on Jeremy's colleagues. Of course the media will be all over it, but the thousands that are turning out every time Corbyn appears won't care.

Nope, but I'm still yet to decide who to vote, and Abbott is frankly, a dire politician who worries me every time she speaks. In terms of 1v1, Corbyn has performed considerably better than May the past few weeks.

 

[ImpSaint]

Whoever wins this election is going to be so horrendously handicapped by the self inflicted disaster that is Brexit that it will take a huge effort of will to think of anything else for even one hour a day. Every waking moment will be consumed by the need to renegotiate an unprecedented volume of soon to be defunct legislative clauses effecting every boat, plane and lorry entering and leaving the UK. It's a goat-**** that will destroy whoever forms the next government.

Part of me thinks the Tories caused this disaster, let them stay and sort it out. But then I think of everything the hapless May has done to antagonise our European partners. At least with Corbyn approaching negotiations in a spirit of co-operation and reconciliation, we have a chance of constructive dialogue rather than a Saloon bar poker game with the UK Govt playing the unconvincing role of the doomed Doc Holliday.

The reality is that the whole globalisation and "liberal" ideal that globalists and the EU sell to the people is a sham cover for the uber-capitalism that hides behind the facade.

Corbyn will as you say go in with a spirit of co-operation and reconciliation but they will play him far too easily because he will fall for their facade of "it's all about people and humanitarianism" because that is what he is all about. Call it naivety or innocence. Something to be admired but they won't be budging from their mantra of "It's all about the people" and then they will scurry off for a free banquet and fine wines while collecting their CEO sized salary and chuckling with business about how the people are lapping up all their sales pitch.

May will go in on a purely business line. That is what the EU is all about so that route is the one that will do best out of it. If the EU was actually about what they sell it as then Corbyn would do well. But it isn't and they will talk behind his back to his centrist bulk of the Labour party and put pressure on him that way.

In terms of human rights the Tories won;t be taking anything away. We implemented most of the key parts ourselves and were the lead behind making a lot of the rest anyway. We are also one of the only ones in the EU that enforce a lot of these rules.

 

[ImpSaint]

Documentary ages ago where crime figures were explained. I'm sure I could google you something but that would just be self comfirmation bias.

In my job we get requests from police all the time to add additional locks or stronger doors to residents homes because they know there are dangerous people after them but can't do anything about it.

Most are just issues with the system but some of these cases I have no doubt could have been prevented if the police had more resourced. And again I have first hand experience from my job at the number of people who refuse to go to the police after they let them down.

Would it not be countered by the fact that police recording methods have improved and much more gets recorded? I accept your argument that people are less likely to record crime because they think it is a waste of time however there are also lots of counter reports that recording methods and police practices have accounted for a rise in reporting of certain crimes.

There is also the factor of things that previously weren't a crime now being a crime (or perceived crime) that get recorded and despite this we still have the drop.

There was one report last year talking about a rise of 128 (circa 20%) in recorded homicides in the UK. What that didn;t take into account was that 96 of that 128 was the Hillsborough verdict being changed to manslaughter.

What I am suggesting is that for every unreported crime there might be one more reported crime due to new laws or better recording or even in some cases better policing methods?

 

[VVD]

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[Archers Road]

A dilemma for Corbyn - persuade Abbott to fall on her sword now, and in so doing thrust her even further into the spotlight? Or wait til after the election before shunting her somewhere where she can't do any harm - & where she can use her undoubted talents (I don't know what they are, but she must have some)?

 

[ChilcoSaint]

A dilemma for Corbyn - persuade Abbott to fall on her sword now, and in so doing thrust her even further into the spotlight? Or wait til after the election before shunting her somewhere where she can't do any harm - & where she can use her undoubted talents (I don't know what they are, but she must have some)?

If Labour win on Thursday there is no way Abbott will be Home Secretary, or any other senior Cabinet role. Corbyn has already alluded to this when he said, in reply to a question about Abbott, "let's win the election, then I'll pick my cabinet."

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

Tories were always going to win. But Abbott is awful and has been all her life. She needs to be dropped.

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[Archers Road]

The reality is that the whole globalisation and "liberal" ideal that globalists and the EU sell to the people is a sham cover for the uber-capitalism that hides behind the facade.

Corbyn will as you say go in with a spirit of co-operation and reconciliation but they will play him far too easily because he will fall for their facade of "it's all about people and humanitarianism" because that is what he is all about. Call it naivety or innocence. Something to be admired but they won't be budging from their mantra of "It's all about the people" and then scurrying off for a free banquet and fine wines while collecting their CEO sized salary and chuckling with business about how the people are lapping up all their sales pitch.

May will go in on a purely business line. That is what the EU is all about so that route is the one that will do best out of it. If the EU was actually about what they sell it as then Corbyn would do well. But it isn't and they will talk behind his back to his centrist bulk of the Labour party and put pressure on him that way.

In terms of human rights the Tories won;t be taking anything away. We implemented most of the key parts ourselves and were the lead behind making a lot of the rest anyway. We are also one of the only ones in the EU that enforce a lot of these rules.

I have absolutely no idea what that first paragraph means Imps. You've completely lost me there.

I disagree though with your assertion that Corbyn will get a worse a deal than May because she is more business like. What business has she ever run?

Corbyn has been an outsider and a champion of the underdog all his life. He has shown tenacity, resilience and an unwavering commitment to his beliefs throughout a long career on the margins of political life. I think that in so doing he has exhibited exactly the personal qualities needed to protect the best interests of his country in trying circumstances - he is, after all, well used to trying circumstances.

May will buckle at the first sign of pressure. Paxman was right, she is a blowhard who will crumble at the first faint sound of gunfire. She always has before.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Fair play to the Green candidate in the Wells constituency, this has just come through our door:

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[Beef]

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[ImpSaint]

I have absolutely no idea what that first paragraph means Imps. You've completely lost me there.

I mean the EU is sold as for the people when the reality is it is all about $$$ for big business and the circles that facilitate the rules to suit them.

I disagree though with your assertion that Corbyn will get a worse a deal than May because she is more business like. What business has she ever run?

May like most politicians including within the EU is all about $$$. Everything equates to money and she will base her negotiations purely on financial accounts. Corbyn is much more about the people rather than the $$$ and the EU will love telling him all the lovely people things that the EU always talks about while they negotiate whatever they want that suits the $$$ but is sold as "for the people."

Corbyn has been an outsider and a champion of the underdog all his life. He has shown tenacity, resilience and an unwavering commitment to his beliefs throughout a long career on the margins of political life. I think that in so doing he has exhibited exactly the personal qualities needed to protect the best interests of his country in trying circumstances - he is, after all, well used to trying circumstances.

I agree although you have to admit he is conceding quite a few things to his party and to try and get the youth vote. He has already backed the EU when he is a eurosceptic and he has given way to his party on Trident. 2 things there that he used to be very very vocal about.

May will buckle at the first sign of pressure. Paxman was right, she is a blowhard who will crumble at the first faint sound of gunfire. She always has before.

I think this will be different. After the election and not getting a landslide she is not going to be allowed to dictate things and the party will be putting lots of pressure on her to delegate and discuss with them rather than tell them what is going to happen.

 

[VocalMinority]

Come on Imps, Corbyn has been fighting people like that all his career, its precisely what he does and he's anything but naive to it.

 

[Archers Road]

Come on Imps, Corbyn has been fighting people like that all his career, its precisely what he does and he's anything but naive to it.

Exactly. It's a huge mistake to underestimate a man who has been swimming against the tide his whole life.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Exactly. It's a huge mistake to underestimate a man who has been swimming against the tide his whole life.

Plus Labour's Brexit Secretary will be Keir Starmer, who is a QC with a great track record of difficult cases behind him.