Off Topic Politics Thread

[Beddy]

...But not Type 1 Diabetes? Surely that is the question here? This can be blamed on Brexit. Not wishing to downplay the menopause (trust me I would never do that...MrsNo7 is 55 so I know!), a shortage of a non life threatening drug (though have you seen Mrs No7 on one?) is different than a self inflicted shortage of a life threatening one.

Remember, this is peoples' lives we are playing with. This is back to the 'We think we'll be ok'. We need to know before we screw it up. Every single report I have seen has said we won't be. Yes, we may recover in 10-15 years, but as Fats said, I am 50 these are my Golden years, and our children are in the 18-30 range and this is their most formative study/work time and we are screwing it up. This will have the knock on effect of screwing up the next generation and so on. And for what? To 'take back out country'?

Sorry all Brexiteers, in my opinion that is quite simply bollocks.


Just my opinion.

I am sorry to hear anyone that has medication problems...and you are right it is playing with peoples lives...including my own by the way........We are still in the EU so why would there be shortages because of Brexit? Pfizer reported a shortage of raw materials back in early 2018. (Although not sure what it was they were making.) The factory in Wales reported in 2016 problems with the menopause drug not sure what the problem was though. At this moment my understanding is they just cant produce enough for demand................ A bit harsh to blame everything on Brexit!!! Sorry remainers that is simply Bollocks to quote a phrase......

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

I am sorry to hear anyone that has medication problems...and you are right it is playing with peoples lives...including my own by the way........We are still in the EU so why would there be shortages because of Brexit? Pfizer reported a shortage of raw materials back in early 2018. (Although not sure what it was they were making.) The factory in Wales reported in 2016 problems with the menopause drug not sure what the problem was though. At this moment my understanding is they just cant produce enough for demand................ A bit harsh to blame everything on Brexit!!! Sorry remainers that is simply Bollocks to quote a phrase......

Lol, I did wake up on the wrong side of bed this morning by the way

 

[Beddy]

Lol, I did wake up on the wrong side of bed this morning by the way

Hey no worries......

 

[VocalMinority]

Debunked

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong/

Debunked years ago. I dont know how that thing is still going around

The shortages of medication has nothing to do with Brexit............They're just not making enough or the raw materials are in short supply. Remember these shortages have been around for over a year now. Just making the point you cant blame everything on Brexit. The EU is in the same boat.......

That's the same logical fallacy as before....
You even linked something to prove your point that showed that in fact lack of planning towards brexit can makes these shortages worse, and the best way to resolve them would be further EU intergration. That was your own source.

Just because there were shortages before Brexit does not mean you cant blame some continued shortages on Brexit.

To put it in a clearer way, the logic you are using is like saying the answer is greater than 6 so it must be 8.

You have to rule out every other option before you make such a claim. Saying it was around before brexit doesnt do that.

Again, I'm not saying your point/conclusion is wrong, just your logic and argument to prove that point.

 

[fatletiss]

Fats.............. its been widely reported especially for the middle aged ladies with menopause problems..........

Ok, but can you help me with any reports you've read? I’ve missed it and would like to read it.... I’ve not blamed medicine loss on Brexit yet, because I don’t know and as I’ve always said I am open to read and learn...


Ps. It’s been widely reported that Brexit will leave us all worse off for a long time, but that doesn’t seem to have hit home

Oh and PPS... where did you read it as you said you don’t follow any media

 

[fatletiss]

Debunked years ago. I dont know how that thing is still going around

That's the same logical fallacy as before....
You even linked something to prove your point that showed that in fact lack of planning towards brexit can makes these shortages worse, and the best way to resolve them would be further EU intergration. That was your own source.

Just because there were shortages before Brexit does not mean you cant blame some continued shortages on Brexit.

To put it in a clearer way, the logic you are using is like saying the answer is greater than 6 so it must be 8.

You have to rule out every other option before you make such a claim. Saying it was around before brexit doesnt do that.

Again, I'm not saying your point/conclusion is wrong, just your logic and argument to prove that point.

I’m not so sure. If we’re having issues on medication supply and have been for a couple of years, I think Beddy has a point. If it continues after Brexit, even I wouldn’t blame Brexit. I’d blame Brexit if new supply problems happened down to no agreements or increased costs, delayed shipping, etc. or if someone had stopped supply because they wanted to back out of our market because of the vote (but I’d doubt that).

I’m up for the fight, but a fair fight.

 

[VocalMinority]

I’m not so sure. If we’re having issues on medication supply and have been for a couple of years, I think Beddy has a point. If it continues after Brexit, even I wouldn’t blame Brexit. I’d blame Brexit if new supply problems happened down to no agreements or increased costs, delayed shipping, etc. or if someone had stopped supply because they wanted to back out of our market because of the vote (but I’d doubt that).

I’m up for the fight, but a fair fight.

What about if poor Brexit planning prevented resolution to a supply shortage.l? Ie we wont invest it setting up a supply line for these goods you are in short supply of because we dont know what you relationship with Europe will be?

As I said, his point can be correct and a large part of the point is likely is correct, but saying that you cant blame any shortages because we already had them is just black and white incorrect and he cant be right without changing his argument. Which he finally did last time.
Its only the logic I have a problem with.

Anyway here what beddy linked before:
https://www.eahp.eu/press-room/hospital-pharmacists-call-european-action-combat-medicines-shortages

Note how it continuously calls for more EU intergration and better communication between bodies in order to plan. Do you think Brexit has helped with that so far?

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

Without doubt there is already an acute shortage of certain critical medicines but I can only see this getting worse with Brexit.

When I discussed the matter with my doctor and asked how I could be certain of a future supply of my medication his response was to tell me that I should go and live in France.

 

[Beddy]

Ok, but can you help me with any reports you've read? I’ve missed it and would like to read it.... I’ve not blamed medicine loss on Brexit yet, because I don’t know and as I’ve always said I am open to read and learn...


Ps. It’s been widely reported that Brexit will leave us all worse off for a long time, but that doesn’t seem to have hit home

Oh and PPS... where did you read it as you said you don’t follow any media

Sorry cant help you with that although before writing I did check some of the Pfizer quotes on the computer.
You see my Wife worked for Pfizer (originally Warner Lambert) For 29 years before she retired She still keeps in touch with a lot of her subordinates from Pfizer. It has been reported that Brexit will hit us hard and no doubt it will......harder than it should have been if we had prepared properly over the last nigh on 4 years..............

Edit........... Vocal minority has listed something that may be helpful.........

 

[Velcro Roy]

Without doubt there is already an acute shortage of certain critical medicines but I can only see this getting worse with Brexit.

When I discussed the matter with my doctor and asked how I could be certain of a future supply of my medication his response was to tell me that I should go and live in France.

You should ask a doctor who doesn't know you.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

The shortages of medication has nothing to do with Brexit............They're just not making enough or the raw materials are in short supply. Remember these shortages have been around for over a year now. Just making the point you cant blame everything on Brexit. The EU is in the same boat.......

Simply not true. There is no current shortage of insulin, I should know. After a no deal Brexit there may well be difficulties in importing insulin, none of which is made in the UK.

 

[fatletiss]

What about if poor Brexit planning prevented resolution to a supply shortage.l? Ie we wont invest it setting up a supply line for these goods you are in short supply of because we dont know what you relationship with Europe will be?

As I said, his point can be correct and a large part of the point is likely is correct, but saying that you cant blame any shortages because we already had them is just black and white incorrect and he cant be right without changing his argument. Which he finally did last time.
Its only the logic I have a problem with.

Anyway here what beddy linked before:
https://www.eahp.eu/press-room/hospital-pharmacists-call-european-action-combat-medicines-shortages

Note how it continuously calls for more EU intergration and better communication between bodies in order to plan. Do you think Brexit has helped with that so far?

I don’t think Brexit has helped with anything, but I’ll give anyone and anything a fair hearing.

 

[fatletiss]

Without doubt there is already an acute shortage of certain critical medicines but I can only see this getting worse with Brexit.

When I discussed the matter with my doctor and asked how I could be certain of a future supply of my medication his response was to tell me that I should go and live in France.

Not bad advice, but Brexit May have made moving to France more difficult

 

[fatletiss]

Sorry cant help you with that although before writing I did check some of the Pfizer quotes on the computer.
You see my Wife worked for Pfizer (originally Warner Lambert) For 29 years before she retired She still keeps in touch with a lot of her subordinates from Pfizer. It has been reported that Brexit will hit us hard and no doubt it will......harder than it should have been if we had prepared properly over the last nigh on 4 years..............

Edit........... Vocal minority has listed something that may be helpful.........

* trying really hard not make a gag about free Viagra

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

* trying really hard not make a gag about free Viagra

 

[Osvaldorama]

This is the key for me. I’ve mentioned it myself before and I keep asking. I won’t stop asking, it because I’m an argumentative little twit like terrier, who never lets go of a bone, but because this time it is massively important. It’s not a game or a bit of fun on a football forum. It’s my life. It’s my families lives. It’s my friend and countrymen and European comrades lives.

I turned 50 last month. I’d guess that I have 25 years left. I worry that will be a financial struggle for me and that’s not what I plan to have for the rest of my life. I don’t want to have to work for all of that time, but I’m suspecting I might.

Everyday I get more convinced that it is just blinkered xenophobia.

This, this, this. I have been searching and searching for answers, trying to be as unbiased as possible.

But every single time I apply a modicum of logic, common sense screams "THIS IS NOT A RISK WORTH TAKING".

Blinkered xenophobia to the detriment of everyone is only answer I can come up with, too Fats.

 

[Beddy]

Simply not true. There is no current shortage of insulin, I should know. After a no deal Brexit there may well be difficulties in importing insulin, none of which is made in the UK.

Should point out perhaps we haven’t left yet..........I don’t know why you feel you know better than I about the shortages....... As my info comes from a horses mouth so to speak. We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

Surely this is a bit of a poor argument though?

The way I see it is that if there are supply issues now with the EU then undoubtedly they will get worse, and if there are no issues there will be?

Can’t really see how this can be defended.

 

[San Tejón]

The shortages of medication has nothing to do with Brexit............They're just not making enough or the raw materials are in short supply. Remember these shortages have been around for over a year now. Just making the point you cant blame everything on Brexit. The EU is in the same boat.......

Read through this and perhaps you might consider that Brexit WILL have a direct impact on SOME very important and life saving/extending medications, and as such should be a reason for reconsideration or delaying until we are self proficient.
As indicated below, even delays in receiving these can render them ineffective.



Medical Radioisotopes
Medical radioisotopes are elements used to diagnose or treat a broad range of conditions. These include many cancers, endocrine and neurological diseases, palliative treatments and cardiovascular imaging. Approximately one million UK patients each year rely on radioisotope procedures. The UK is not self-sufficient in these materials, importing around 80% of the medical radioisotopes we use. Most of these come from the Netherlands, Belgium, and France.

Unlike many medicines, radioactive isotopes cannot be stockpiled. As soon as they are produced they begin to decay. The longer the delay, the smaller the dose of useful isotope that remains.



Delays
The most common radioisotope used in healthcare is Technetium-99m (99mTc). This extremely useful element has a half-life of just six hours, and so is transported to hospitals and radiopharmacies in the form of ‘technetium-99m generators’. These devices contain the decaying parent element, molybdenum-99 (99Mo) which has a half-life of sixty-six hours. As the UK has no research reactors capable of producing 99Mo, the element is imported via an efficient and reliable system.

Once a generator is produced at a reactor source, the product immediately starts to lose effectiveness in terms of useful doses, and so timely transport to UK hospitals is essential. Delays can disrupt the delicate, time-sensitive supply chain, and may result in increased costs, cancelled procedures, and a reduction in the numbers hospitals are able to treat. The process is so time-sensitive that even now and without border complications a delivery held up by delays en route can lead to appointment cancellations.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

Read through this and perhaps you might consider that Brexit WILL have a direct impact on SOME very important and life saving/extending medications, and as such should be a reason for reconsideration or delaying until we are self proficient.
As indicated below, even delays in receiving these can render them ineffective.



Medical Radioisotopes
Medical radioisotopes are elements used to diagnose or treat a broad range of conditions. These include many cancers, endocrine and neurological diseases, palliative treatments and cardiovascular imaging. Approximately one million UK patients each year rely on radioisotope procedures. The UK is not self-sufficient in these materials, importing around 80% of the medical radioisotopes we use. Most of these come from the Netherlands, Belgium, and France.

Unlike many medicines, radioactive isotopes cannot be stockpiled. As soon as they are produced they begin to decay. The longer the delay, the smaller the dose of useful isotope that remains.



Delays
The most common radioisotope used in healthcare is Technetium-99m (99mTc). This extremely useful element has a half-life of just six hours, and so is transported to hospitals and radiopharmacies in the form of ‘technetium-99m generators’. These devices contain the decaying parent element, molybdenum-99 (99Mo) which has a half-life of sixty-six hours. As the UK has no research reactors capable of producing 99Mo, the element is imported via an efficient and reliable system.

Once a generator is produced at a reactor source, the product immediately starts to lose effectiveness in terms of useful doses, and so timely transport to UK hospitals is essential. Delays can disrupt the delicate, time-sensitive supply chain, and may result in increased costs, cancelled procedures, and a reduction in the numbers hospitals are able to treat. The process is so time-sensitive that even now and without border complications a delivery held up by delays en route can lead to appointment cancellations.

Hey but don’t worry, we’ll get our country back. Oh and all the savings from not being in the EU will pay for more doctors and nurses and more medicines. That was the promise eh?