Off Topic Politics Thread

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St Badger said:
Absolutely.
I work with many Poles, Romanians, Portuguese and an Hungarian, amongst other nationalities from outside the EU.
I don’t judge them by their nationality. I judge them by how they work and interact with others, and there are very few that I dislike. The South African - arrogant and universally disliked by everyone.
The way forward is to maintain and strengthen our links with the EU and eradicate the little Englander attitude that infects too many.
The alternative is to “stop taking orders from Europe”, to quote many Brexiters, and take them from the USA.
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God forbid........NOT THE US OF A please....no
 
Beddytare said:
I hear you TSS and would agree with you to a point. However in my opinion this country can do even better by being out of the EU. Our history is we have proved time and time again we can over come, we can move forward on our own.
I would be more than happy to go back to the old agreement of a common market, as would others even with perhaps open borders. We survived well enough before they made the EU into a state and will if we leave. I hear the experts and it is not going to be easy, thats a fact I accept. But with hard work we can do it. It’s just I have more faith in this countries abilities. Mind you I also agree we have made things so much harder than perhaps they could have been. The last three years have been totally wasted.
I am beginning to think we should pull the hell out of all this and reconsider. Have another general election and even possibly another referendum.
Then maybe try to see if there is a better way to do much the same thing and change some of the European minds as to what is bothering a fair proportion of this country. I have not heard too much about other countries moans and groans lately but I am hearing not all is well. No specifics and probably nervousness about us leaving. Without the UK’s balance the EU is not going to be as fine as they think.
Someone said that, did they not in, was it not the German parliament? I know I saw it on here somewhere.
The longer this goes on the longer and worse the devision Will be in this country. That is something I never wanted or imagined.
The only thing I would ask for if we have another referendum is that we bring in new legislation or whatever is needed % wise. That which ever way the vote goes whoever is in power acknowledges that is how it has to be.
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Are you saying revoke Art. 50, GE then referendum? Leave out the GE enough bile flowing already. What would be on your referendum ballot? No deal was voted down (WTO no no no) so it's leave with the current negotiated terms (finalised, no further discussion say the EU27) or stay?. With Art. 50 revoked QM for the referendum, what percentage 60-40, 55-45?
The Irish border question isn't going away (Trump's wall nonsense worthy of derision elsewhere). The tottering EU argument doesn't hold water from where I am in The Netherlands no domino effect perceived. In fact a number of countries have already benefited with EU agencies relocating.
Simple answer stop it, revoke, remain. How, when this far on the road to nowhere? ****ed if I know, it was all going to be so easy.

.
 
Beddytare said:
I hear you TSS and would agree with you to a point. However in my opinion this country can do even better by being out of the EU. Our history is we have proved time and time again we can over come, we can move forward on our own.
I would be more than happy to go back to the old agreement of a common market, as would others even with perhaps open borders. We survived well enough before they made the EU into a state and will if we leave. I hear the experts and it is not going to be easy, thats a fact I accept. But with hard work we can do it. It’s just I have more faith in this countries abilities. Mind you I also agree we have made things so much harder than perhaps they could have been. The last three years have been totally wasted.
I am beginning to think we should pull the hell out of all this and reconsider. Have another general election and even possibly another referendum.
Then maybe try to see if there is a better way to do much the same thing and change some of the European minds as to what is bothering a fair proportion of this country. I have not heard too much about other countries moans and groans lately but I am hearing not all is well. No specifics and probably nervousness about us leaving. Without the UK’s balance the EU is not going to be as fine as they think.
Someone said that, did they not in, was it not the German parliament? I know I saw it on here somewhere.
The longer this goes on the longer and worse the devision Will be in this country. That is something I never wanted or imagined.
The only thing I would ask for if we have another referendum is that we bring in new legislation or whatever is needed % wise. That which ever way the vote goes whoever is in power acknowledges that is how it has to be.
Click to expand...

This is a misguided view IMO Beddy, we are no longer at the head of the biggest empire the World has ever seen and can't depend on exploiting and getting rich off of countries and people that are less developed any longer.
 
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Beddytare said:
I hear you TSS and would agree with you to a point. However in my opinion this country can do even better by being out of the EU. Our history is we have proved time and time again we can over come, we can move forward on our own.
I would be more than happy to go back to the old agreement of a common market, as would others even with perhaps open borders. We survived well enough before they made the EU into a state and will if we leave. I hear the experts and it is not going to be easy, thats a fact I accept. But with hard work we can do it. It’s just I have more faith in this countries abilities. Mind you I also agree we have made things so much harder than perhaps they could have been. The last three years have been totally wasted.
I am beginning to think we should pull the hell out of all this and reconsider. Have another general election and even possibly another referendum.
Then maybe try to see if there is a better way to do much the same thing and change some of the European minds as to what is bothering a fair proportion of this country. I have not heard too much about other countries moans and groans lately but I am hearing not all is well. No specifics and probably nervousness about us leaving. Without the UK’s balance the EU is not going to be as fine as they think.
Someone said that, did they not in, was it not the German parliament? I know I saw it on here somewhere.
The longer this goes on the longer and worse the devision Will be in this country. That is something I never wanted or imagined.
The only thing I would ask for if we have another referendum is that we bring in new legislation or whatever is needed % wise. That which ever way the vote goes whoever is in power acknowledges that is how it has to be.
Click to expand...

If I could just select these sentences then I'd say spot on

Of course there are things in the EU that can be improved and other countries believe that as well
Remainers don't believe the EU is perfect, they aren't stupid

The EU never had any doubt that they wanted us in and arguing our corner, they know they are stronger with us so when will we all realise we are stronger with them

I wish us luck negotiating alone with the US and China!!!
 
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Trump, speaking to Leo Varadkar, Irish Taoiseach

“Probably you’ll ask me about Brexit because I just left some very good people who are very involved with Brexit, as you know, and I think it will all work out very well, and also for you with your wall, your border.”

Well done, Donald, diplomatic as ever.

Vin
 
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Saints_Alive said:
This is a misguided view IMO Beddy, we are no longer at the head of the biggest empire the World has ever seen and can't depend on exploiting and getting rich off of countries and people that are less developed any longer.
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Absolutely, and once we are out of the Single Market we have literally ZERO bargaining power when it comes to trade deals with other countries, including, of course the EU27 which currently most of our trade is with. No manufacturing base, no raw materials, possibly no financial sector, and an agricultural sector which will disappear in the face of zero tariff food from the USA and elsewhere.

Forget about rebuilding our former glory, without the British Empire to exploit it simply can’t be done.
 
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Beddytare said:
I hear you TSS and would agree with you to a point. However in my opinion this country can do even better by being out of the EU. Our history is we have proved time and time again we can over come, we can move forward on our own.
I would be more than happy to go back to the old agreement of a common market, as would others even with perhaps open borders. We survived well enough before they made the EU into a state and will if we leave. I hear the experts and it is not going to be easy, thats a fact I accept. But with hard work we can do it. It’s just I have more faith in this countries abilities.
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We've tended to do it with the help of allies. Like the coalitions against Napoleon and Hitler, not by ourselves. But these are all wars. Because when you don't have mutually agreed laws and courts to fight in, you generally overcome these things with conflict as we have shown time and time again throughout our history. Also the empire fell apart, it didn't overcome. Other than that, sure the country won't suddenly cease to exist after we leave the EU. But our hard work will lead to far more inside the EU than out of it, this has very little to do with how much faith in the country you have as the Eu simply makes us stronger no matter how strong we already are. As our history has proved time and time again, we can overcome and move forward together.
 
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StJabbo said:
Are you saying revoke Art. 50, GE then referendum? Leave out the GE enough bile flowing already. What would be on your referendum ballot? No deal was voted down (WTO no no no) so it's leave with the current negotiated terms (finalised, no further discussion say the EU27) or stay?. With Art. 50 revoked QM for the referendum, what percentage 60-40, 55-45?
The Irish border question isn't going away (Trump's wall nonsense worthy of derision elsewhere). The tottering EU argument doesn't hold water from where I am in The Netherlands no domino effect perceived. In fact a number of countries have already benefited with EU agencies relocating.
Simple answer stop it, revoke, remain. How, when this far on the road to nowhere? ****ed if I know, it was all going to be so easy.

.
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No Jabbo.....I think you misunderstood........I do not like to see our country divided so much. Both sides have argued their point........(not necessarily on here agreed) The derision between camps is not good for the country. The longer it goes on the worse it will get. I am suggesting the way out maybe indeed to have another referendum. As has been suggested by others. The only thing I would ask for was to make the result legally binding. If the remain win so be it but the same goes for the Brexiteers. Let us all stop bringing the country down. In the end nobody will win the argument
 
benditlikeabanana said:
Why is it the the left always just say immigrants ? Instead of separating legal and illegal immigrants?
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Because to the right, "legal immigrants" is just code speak for "white Christians" and "illegal immigrants" are non-white, non-Christians. But they get really mad when you call them bigots.

So speaking broadly about immigrants in general is just our way of not being racist and bigoted and while politely avoiding pointing out the right's blatant racism and bigotry.
 
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Onionman said:
Trump, speaking to Leo Varadkar, Irish Taoiseach

“Probably you’ll ask me about Brexit because I just left some very good people who are very involved with Brexit, as you know, and I think it will all work out very well, and also for you with your wall, your border.”

Well done, Donald, diplomatic as ever.

Vin
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Jesus, did he really say that about “your wall”?

I know he’s President of the USA, but why do media outlets even bother trying to portray him as anything other than a colossal buffoon? Is it an attempt at balance, are they cowed, or can they not quite believe what a ****ing idiot he is?
 
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TheSecondStain said:
I love the faux sing-a-long of the 'Nothing Times'. A nostalgia that wipes clean the fact that times were actually worse before. In one sense, the difference is attitude and how we face up to things. In my opinion, Brexiteers, for example, look back at history and want to return to an older state. Whereas EU enthusiasts look back on history and want to move forward, making adjustments for the better as we go. We simply can't go backward to a nostalgic older time because inevitably, economically and culturally, we'll go back in time too.
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This is what frustrates me immensely. There is a massive sense of nostalgia and sentiment that overrules the the reality of the world today in many ways. The conversations that I have that go no where with my Daily Express reading parents!
 
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