Off Topic Politics Thread

[Libby]

Since teaching, I have moved to the University and currently work in close connection to medical research. You wouldn’t believe some of the advances we are making - and how they will make patient care more efficient. For example, AI models that can read a blood sample and tell you the correct anti-biotic to use. We are 50 years away from having no antibiotics, by the way.

What we need is to integrate all the amazing things going on without getting ripped off by outside companies promising to put computer systems together- and failing. We need to not sell all the patents to big pharma and have them sell all this **** back to us.

But we do need basic investment in employment. We need to train and employ enough doctors and nurses. We need mental health teams that are fit for purpose. We need places to put the elderly who don’t need hospital beds. That is about spending money - on each other.

Agree with this but as I mentioned earlier the public don't want to pay for social care. Look at the reactions in this very thread last year when the Tories announced tax rises to pay for social care reforms.

There needs to be a huge change in mindset from the public to how we approach these things along with huge reforms of the NHS itself to make it vastly more efficient than it is.

 

[......loading......]

Agree with this but as I mentioned earlier the public don't want to pay for social care. Look at the reactions in this very thread last year when the Tories announced tax rises to pay for social care reforms.

There needs to be a huge change in mindset from the public to how we approach these things along with huge reforms of the NHS itself to make it vastly more efficient than it is.

I agree. Lack of funding for social care is costing the nation money, making vulnerable people suffer and clogging up beds. Our awful mental health care means small issues grow and truly dangerous people go out and murder people.

Spending can save you money. Cutting corners rarely does.

 

[Osvaldorama]

I wouldn’t mind paying high taxes in general if we got value for money.

The problem is,we get taxed and it all disappears into a corrupt, unaccountable system and used for things totally against our wishes.

I can’t think of a solution for this other than to privatise the NHS imo. Then you pretty much get what you pay for.

But I do know that I am sick of being taxed extortionate amounts for services that I barely use, and then when I do use them they are broken beyond repair.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Tell you what does annoy me, and particularly with reference to my car being nabbed the other night.

The police.

I spend quite a lot of time in Italy, and much as we might laugh at their police leaning on their Alfas, dressed up to the nines having a ***, they are at least there. They're visible. Both the national and local forces.

Here though, you barely see a police presence. They're far, far more interested in squeaking out £100 fines because one of the plethora of cameras has caught someone doing 34 in a 30 zone or something. When I reported my car being stolen, they couldn't have been less interested - "it's probably in a chop shop or on a boat to Albania mate". There are so many cameras around now, and cameras with numberplate recognition (especially in London, where I live), surely they could spend a small amount of time checking where my car was moved to? But no.

I know it's down to manpower etc., but give me the Italian way any time, rather than this awful, grasping, squeeze cash out of the general public stuff we have here. I dropped my wife at Heathrow to go to Korea the other day - five pound charge to drop her at the 'kiss and fly' place. Squeeze, squeeze, squeeze.

 

[......loading......]

Tell you what does annoy me, and particularly with reference to my car being nabbed the other night.

The police.

I spend quite a lot of time in Italy, and much as we might laugh at their police leaning on their Alfas, dressed up in the nines having a ***, they are at least there. They're visible. Both the national and local forces.

Here though, you barely see a police presence. They're far, far more interested in squeaking out £100 fines because one of the plethora of cameras has caught someone doing 34 in a 30 zone or something. When I reported my car being stolen, they couldn't have been less interested - "it's probably in a chop shop or on a boat to Albania mate". There are so many cameras around now, and cameras with numberplate recognition (especially in London, where I live), surely they could spend a small amount of time checking where my car was moved to? But no.

I know it's down to manpower etc., but give me the Italian way any time, rather than this awful, grasping, squeeze cash out of the general public stuff we have here. I dropped my wife at Heathrow to go to Korea the other day - five pound charge to drop her at the 'kiss and fly' place. Squeeze, squeeze, squeeze.

Nobody is more pissed off about this than the police themselves. I say this as my best mate is a copper - who, like everyone in public service, wants out.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Nobody is more pissed off about this than the police themselves. I say this as my best mate is a copper - who, like everyone in public service, wants out.

And if you think it’s bad in the towns and cities, the police are even thinner on the ground in rural areas. Covering my village are one beat copper and one PCSO, based 7 miles away in Shepton Mallet and between them responsible for an area of more than 100 square miles.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Nobody is more pissed off about this than the police themselves. I say this as my best mate is a copper - who, like everyone in public service, wants out.

I do get that, of course.

I’ll likely get hung, drawn and quartered for saying this, but by far the most helpful and proactive person through this process so far, has been the local Tory councillor.

 

[StJabbo1]

I do get that, of course.

I’ll likely get hung, drawn and quartered for saying this, but by far the most helpful and proactive person through this process so far, has been the local Tory councillor.

Perhaps you can turn he/her/it/them/they and bring them into the light

 

[......loading......]

I do get that, of course.

I’ll likely get hung, drawn and quartered for saying this, but by far the most helpful and proactive person through this process so far, has been the local Tory councillor.

Paying lip service to your complaint is a way to win a vote! The copper is right. If it was a nice car then they stole it to order and the plates were swapped within a couple of blocks. The car is gone. The councillor can do just as much the policeman- talk about it!

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Paying lip service to your complaint is a way to win a vote! The copper is right. If it was a nice car then they stole it to order and the plates were swapped within a couple of blocks. The car is gone. The councillor can do just as much the policeman- talk about it!

Of course, but the fact he's made the effort to contact me directly, and is taking me for coffee because he wants to hear about my experience with the Met, and my thoughts on how things can be improved in terms of safety for people's property etc etc goes a long way. (I know he despaired of the Johnson government too, so he's not a bad egg!)

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

In 53 years on this planet I can honestly say I have never had a positive experience of the Police. I don't need them often, but when I have they have been uninterested and inept at dealing with my issues.

Not being paranoid, but I think my surname and skin colour doesn't help.

The last time I called them was over a neighbour row (mentioned on here before) and rather than investigate the neighbours for their comments caught on my CCTV, they thought it would be a good idea for me to 'ignore them perhaps as there is nothing we can really do' and maybe put a fence up between us so I wouldn't see them.....

EDIT: Yes, it was a middle aged white policeman who 'helped' me

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

For what it's worth, I'm doing the police work myself (don't nick my car, you ****ers) - Alfa Romeo are actually being very helpful and trying to get their technicians to track the car via the embedded sim to find out where it is...

I'M COMING FOR YOU!

*insert Liam Neeson gif here, cos I don't know how to do it*

 

[SR get out of my club]

I wouldn’t mind paying high taxes in general if we got value for money.

The problem is,we get taxed and it all disappears into a corrupt, unaccountable system and used for things totally against our wishes.

I can’t think of a solution for this other than to privatise the NHS imo. Then you pretty much get what you pay for.

But I do know that I am sick of being taxed extortionate amounts for services that I barely use, and then when I do use them they are broken beyond repair.

I still don’t understand if I use private healthcare, that I pay for my entire family, why I have to pay anything toward it. I don’t even use doctors, I pay again, for access to doctors.

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

I still don’t understand if I use private healthcare, that I pay for my entire family, why I have to pay anything toward it. I don’t even use doctors, I pay again, for access to doctors.

This is not any attempt at justification for anyone paying for/not paying for private health care, and the not unreasonable reluctance to also contribute towards the NHS, but what would you expect to happen if you/your family needed an ambulance? It may never happen, and maybe an 'insurance' system would cover such eventualities, but it was just a thought.

Extending this, does anyone know what would have happened if an emergency ambulance was required, prior to 1948 (ie before the start of the NHS)? Did an ambulance arrive, then the patient was charged for its services?

 

[SR get out of my club]

This is not any attempt at justification for anyone paying for/not paying for private health care, and the not unreasonable reluctance to also contribute towards the NHS, but what would you expect to happen if you/your family needed an ambulance? It may never happen, and maybe an 'insurance' system would cover such eventualities, but it was just a thought.

Extending this, does anyone know what would have happened if an emergency ambulance was required, prior to 1948 (ie before the start of the NHS)? Did an ambulance arrive, then the patient was charged for its services?

That is a fair point, but considering the amount of taxes some people pay, it really is disproportionate.

I do wonder if people had to suffer some other peoples tax bills, if it would make them see things from a different lens. I have been far poorer than I am now, so I guess have seen many sides of this.

 

[......loading......]

That is a fair point, but considering the amount of taxes some people pay, it really is disproportionate.

I do wonder if people had to suffer some other peoples tax bills, if it would make them see things from a different lens. I have been far poorer than I am now, so I guess have seen many sides of this.

I reckon those poor bastards would be absolutely devastated to have that level of taxable income. I think all that wealth would really depress them.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

I think St Johns provided from 1882 and national service provided from 1918

 

[shoot_spiderman]

That is a fair point, but considering the amount of taxes some people pay, it really is disproportionate.

I do wonder if people had to suffer some other peoples tax bills, if it would make them see things from a different lens. I have been far poorer than I am now, so I guess have seen many sides of this.

Words elude me

 

[SR get out of my club]

I reckon those poor bastards would be absolutely devastated to have that level of taxable income. I think all that wealth would really depress them.

You didn’t disappoint me Loading, I thought you would pick up on that.

And the lapdog Spider-Man. Maybe he could go to the NHS to get a spine inserted

This isn’t really the point though, as well you know. I have gone through poverty, born into it actually, and in doing so understand what it is like to not have much. I also know what it is like to pay extortionate amounts in tax, those who have never had money don’t really feel that. As you just demonstrated (btw - not a dig intended).

Anyhow, I appreciate how popular this view will be, so maybe will duck out now. I do have a pool to get in to

 

[......loading......]

Words elude me

It is almost like high tax earners deliberately misunderstand the tax system to feel sorry for themselves.

If you are rich you pay the same tax as the poor man on the first £12500. Namely zero. Zero tax despite all your wealth.
If you are rich you still pay same on the next £38000. You pay 20% the same as the middle earner on that £38000. You still paid nothing on the 12,500.
If you are rich you are paying an extra 20p in the pound for everything you earn over £50,271. You have to be earning a lot to start feeling that. I think you will live.

But then the rich usually have good accountants and find ways to pay less than the poor…

Personal Allowance Up to £12,570 0%
Basic rate £12,571 to £50,270 20%
Higher rate £50,271 to £125,140 40%