Off Topic Politics Thread

[Gregm1988]

She has filed complaints. Which she lost. Your example is of a single individual who has made a nuisance of themselves who was ordered to pay restitution after it was found not to be a civil rights violation. That's the exact opposite of a problem.

I guess the point trying to be made is that this individual felt emboldened to even attempt that due to the law changes. And targeted and seemingly harassed women owned businesses and put them through the stress and ordeal of lawsuits

Sure restitution is being ordered but should it have got that far? And could it if not for the law changes that exist in Canada but not here

That is what I assume the point was. Sure it is one person - I appreciate that part as well.

 

[Schad]

I guess the point trying to be made is that this individual felt emboldened to even attempt that due to the law changes. And targeted and seemingly harassed women owned businesses and put them through the stress and ordeal of lawsuits

Sure restitution is being ordered but should it have got that far? And could it if not for the law changes that exist in Canada but not here

That is what I assume the point was. Sure it is one person - I appreciate that part as well.

Denying tens of thousands of people rights because one person lost a bunch of nuisance suits is just not sensible. Hundreds or thousands of stupid, petty lawsuits are launched every day, and we do not respond to them by rolling back a whole host of protections for the people most likely to launch stupid, petty lawsuits (which is to say: people with the money to do so).


I'd also again point out that, if one's actual concerns are about women's rights, that you should maybe be mindful of who is pushing this. The "What is a woman?" stuff started with a far right commentator named Matt Walsh. Here is JK Rowling, congratulating Matt Walsh:

https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/...-walsh-blasted-online-over-shared-transphobia


Here is Matt Walsh, being criticized by one of the most conservative women in American politics for his misogyny:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...ive-writer-matt-walsh-over-horrible-misogyny/


Here is Matt Walsh, with a lengthy article criticizing feminism:

https://themattwalshblog.com/men-and-women-are-not-equal/


And more directly and to the point:

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And again:

https://themattwalshblog.com/feminism-nothing-say-still-wont-shut-2/



If one thinks that any of this is about protecting womens' spaces, they simply are not paying attention to who is pushing it.

 

[The Ides of March]

Rejoin the single market and the customs union means allowing freedom of movement. Snowballs ready here we come.

You are right St Jabbo but baby steps first. Rejoin the SM but dilute the wording so that she is not accused of ditching the purity of Brexit. This is assuming she is to be the next PM.

 

[Gregm1988]

You are right St Jabbo but baby steps first. Rejoin the SM but dilute the wording so that she is not accused of ditching the purity of Brexit. This is assuming she is to be the next PM.

I wonder how reliant she will be on the ERG? Wasn’t it them / UKIP pressure that bounced Cameron into calling the Brexit referendum in the first place? And then undermined May’s deals until we got pretty much the same under Johnson

And yet for all that sway they can’t get their preferred candidate past the second round this time and their true hard man mouthpiece didn’t even stand

You’d like to think their influence is waning

 

[- Doing The Lambert Walk]

Genius.

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[It'sOnlyAGame]

Thanks for the honesty and the explanation.

The only comment I have is that every single word in it relates to trans women. Which, possibly not coincidentally, is a singular obsession in the sources you deny being the cause of the panic. They, like you, never ever mention people transitioning the other way.

Given that, it might be worth just considering whether it's possible that you've been more affected by those sources than you think you have.

I can tell you're emotional on the subject and I promise it's not my intention to wind you up. I'm genuinely thankful for the honesty and for sharing your viewpoint.

Vin

There are concerns about women and girls (especially girls) transitioning the other way but those concerns are mainly about the harm they can do to themselves rather than to others. The reason women claiming to be men get's less attention is that there are no women trying to be included into men's sport, no women trying to access men's prisons and no women trying to access men's toilets and changing rooms. A woman in a man's space presents very little threat to men's safety, whereas a man in a women's space (whatever they are wearing) does. Most sexual assaults are carried out by men. Obviously not all men but how is a woman to know if she or her daughter is safe upon finding a man in the toilets? Fully intact men who want to share women's changing rooms so they can flash their dicks? I don't think so.

Below are a few examples of why women are concerned about politicians who struggle with women's identity and have stated they will change the gender recognition act to make it even easier for men to self identify as women.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ng-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison
https://www.womenarehuman.com/trans...s-prison-jessica-winfield-nee-martin-ponting/
https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-...omed-vulnerable-woman-while-in-womens-prison/
https://www.womenarehuman.com/2nd-g...nsgender-fellow-student-furious-dad-arrested/
http://transcrimeuk.com/2018/09/18/michelle-lewin/

Of course, according to the Oracle (who for some reason want's to defend men who wear dresses) genuine concern is "bullshit moral panic", is "100% manufactured panic" and "everything is just peachy".

Ontario, Canada where everything is just peachy.
https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-...to-community-madilyn-harks-nee-matthew-harks/
Concerns in Canada where "nothing happened"
https://www.christian.org.uk/news/gender-diverse-offenders-in-canada-can-choose-their-prison/

 

[Schad]

Ontario, Canada where everything is just peachy.
https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-...to-community-madilyn-harks-nee-matthew-harks/

Sex offenders are released after serving their sentences all the time. Male, female, cis, trans. That has literally nothing to do with trans people having rights. Cis men perpetrate the majority of sexual abuses, yet there isn't a major push to forcibly neuter them or whatever.

Concerns in Canada where "nothing happened"
https://www.christian.org.uk/news/gender-diverse-offenders-in-canada-can-choose-their-prison/

And?

You. Are. Being. Fed. Bullshit. In two years, this moral panic threatening to destroy civilization will cease to be salient, and it will be replaced by a new moral panic threatening to destroy civilization. That one will be the biggest deal in the world, until it ceases to be salient, and it too will be replaced by a new moral panic threatening to destroy civilization. And you'll buy into all of them, forgetting that each and every one of them just faded into the background without any real action being needed to prevent it from destroying civilization.

 

[StJabbo1]

Trans and other sexually related phobias have been politicised by the righteous right and a number of right wing religious groups. It's not just in the UK irrational fears and prejudices are being prayed on in many countries.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

Trans and other sexually related phobias have been politicised by the righteous right and a number of right wing religious groups. It's not just in the UK irrational fears and prejudices are being prayed on in many countries.

I don’t know if social media is just a vehicle for this or a driver, but it seems that there is no middle way allowed in so many issues these days

There are forces that will have it that you’re either a Zionist or anti-Semitic, if you stand up for women’s rights, you’re a trans-phobe, if you’re Trans, you’re a misogynist

Sex and gender have created the perfect storm

At a grass-roots, less politicised level aren’t a lot of people just trying to get on together?

 

[StJabbo1]

I don’t know if social media is just a vehicle for this or a driver, but it seems that there is no middle way allowed in so many issues these days

There are forces that will have it that you’re either a Zionist or anti-Semitic, if you stand up for women’s rights, you’re a trans-phobe, if you’re Trans, you’re a misogynist

Sex and gender have created the perfect storm

At a grass-roots, less politicised level aren’t a lot of people just trying to get on together?

Agree with the grass roots getting on with and tolerating each especially here in the Netherlands. Must say there's some strain in relationships with covid, driven to a large degree by social media disgraces.

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

Sex offenders are released after serving their sentences all the time. Male, female, cis, trans. That has literally nothing to do with trans people having rights. Cis men perpetrate the majority of sexual abuses, yet there isn't a major push to forcibly neuter them or whatever.



And?

You. Are. Being. Fed. Bullshit. In two years, this moral panic threatening to destroy civilization will cease to be salient, and it will be replaced by a new moral panic threatening to destroy civilization. That one will be the biggest deal in the world, until it ceases to be salient, and it too will be replaced by a new moral panic threatening to destroy civilization. And you'll buy into all of them, forgetting that each and every one of them just faded into the background without any real action being needed to prevent it from destroying civilization.

What the hell are cis men? There are men and there are women, spouting woke language won't change who they are, even if it gives you some sort of self importance.

Men have always been the main offenders in sexual abuse cases. Giving these men access to women and girls spaces, quite often where they are vulnerable, just opens up more opportunities they didn't have before. Sexual abusers are not slow to exploit these opportunities and although you've tried to make out it doesn't happen, the press reports say otherwise. Also making out it is bullshit or nothing to worry about because it doesn't happen is a lie that you continually repeat. It is happening here and in Canada.
For some reason you are prepared to risk the safety of women in favour of a small group, mostly made up of middle-aged men with a wardrobe problem. And a small group doesn't mean an insignificant group. I'm not sure what your motives could be but there is a risk to women and girls and you are in denial.

 

[Schad]

What the hell are cis men? There are men and there are women, spouting woke language won't change who they are, even if it gives you some sort of self importance.

Men have always been the main offenders in sexual abuse cases. Giving these men access to women and girls spaces, quite often where they are vulnerable, just opens up more opportunities they didn't have before. Sexual abusers are not slow to exploit these opportunities and although you've tried to make out it doesn't happen, the press reports say otherwise. Also making out it is bullshit or nothing to worry about because it doesn't happen is a lie that you continually repeat. It is happening here and in Canada.
For some reason you are prepared to risk the safety of women in favour of a small group, mostly made up of middle-aged men with a wardrobe problem. And a small group doesn't mean an insignificant group. I'm not sure what your motives could be but there is a risk to women and girls and you are in denial.

What you quoted wasn't 'press'. Here's christian.org.uk on their mission:

It is not loving to affirm the idea that a person is ‘trapped in the wrong body’ – especially when this could encourage them to undergo medical interventions that are dangerous both physically and psychologically. As Christians we are to speak the truth in love, applying biblical principles without compromise but with compassion (Ephesians 4:15); ultimately pointing them to life-changing repentance and faith in Christ.

Secularism is not neutral. It is hostile to Christian beliefs and cannot provide a neutral basis for education. In 1944 when the Education Act was passed state ‘county’ schools were assumed to be non-denominational but Christian. This assumption was widely accepted until the late 1970s.

The Bible provides God-given moral absolutes for personal and social conduct. All children should be given the opportunity to examine the teaching of the Bible.

The Christian Institute supports Government efforts to combat terrorism and the ideologies which underpin it. However, we are very concerned about the vague definition of extremism. It risks many innocent people being labelled as extremists, including Christians.

We should of course respect and tolerate all people. The problem comes when “respect and tolerance” of a person is understood to mean acceptance, or endorsement of their beliefs and lifestyles. If we are to truly love our neighbour made in the image of God, we cannot endorse people behaving in a way that we know is harmful for them and others.

'Love thy neighbour' really means 'have the right to hate thy neigbour and all that they stand for', if you really think about it.



I'll admit that I gave you too much credit in suggesting that you were merely overly credulous, and buying into the panic of the day, however. You're clearly a true believer. Best of luck.

 

[saintrichie123]

Shocked Fiona Bruce didn’t but in like she normally does…….but he is 100% correct.

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[It'sOnlyAGame]

What you quoted wasn't 'press'. Here's christian.org.uk on their mission:







'Love thy neighbour' really means 'have the right to hate thy neigbour and all that they stand for', if you really think about it.



I'll admit that I gave you too much credit in suggesting that you were merely overly credulous, and buying into the panic of the day, however. You're clearly a true believer. Best of luck.

Out of seven examples (sources) I've given you've managed to find fault in only one so pretty overwhelming evidence of deceit in your claims. Interesting that you think you gave me too much credit because right from the start I've given you none. All through this conversation you have shown no level of understanding women concerns at any time. Thanks for the best wishes though.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

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[Onionman]

Obviously not all men but how is a woman to know if she or her daughter is safe upon finding a man in the toilets? Fully intact men who want to share women's changing rooms so they can flash their dicks? I don't think so.

There are already laws against flashing your genitals whether in a changing room or not. A man can't do that, whether in a male or a female changing room. Not can a woman. It's nonsense.

If you think men transition in order to flash their dicks then I think you haven't thought it through.

It's a mountain being very effectively made out of a molehill. In 59 years on this planet I've knowingly met one trans person. Being deeply emotional (as you clearly are) about such a non-issue might just be a warning sign that your emotions are being manipulated by people who have shown themselves to be experts in that field.

I'll leave it now but my final thought; consider why you believe what you believe and whether there is a genuine basis for it or whether you're being played.

Vin

 

[Schad]

There are already laws against flashing your genitals whether in a changing room or not. A man can't do that, whether in a male or a female changing room. Not can a woman. It's nonsense.

If you think men transition in order to flash their dicks then I think you haven't thought it through.

It's a mountain being very effectively made out of a molehill. In 59 years on this planet I've knowingly met one trans person. Being deeply emotional (as you clearly are) about such a non-issue might just be a warning sign that your emotions are being manipulated by people who have shown themselves to be experts in that field.

I'll leave it now but my final thought; consider why you believe what you believe and whether there is a genuine basis for it or whether you're being played.

Vin

Further to this, for anyone for whom this has become The Biggest Deal in the World:

- Was it the biggest deal in the world six months ago?

- Was it the biggest deal in the world a year ago?

- Two years ago?

- Five years ago?


Because almost nothing has substantively changed in that span. It's not like the Conservative Party has passed a slew of legislation protecting trans rights or anything. So why is it a big deal now? Why are the likes of Mordaunt, previously vocally pro-trans-rights, suddenly taking up the mantle of a right wing extremist who is avowedly anti-feminist? Why has this come to the fore absent any significant triggering effect?

And if the answer is that suddenly people have rallied around women's rights, why are so many of the groups pushing it right-wing reactionaries and/or Christian dominionists, groups that don't exactly have a good reputation for extolling women's rights? Surely they should be thrown out of the movement, rather than being cornerstones of it.

 

[Saint Jimmy]

What the hell are cis men? There are men and there are women, spouting woke language won't change who they are, even if it gives you some sort of self importance.

Men have always been the main offenders in sexual abuse cases. Giving these men access to women and girls spaces, quite often where they are vulnerable, just opens up more opportunities they didn't have before. Sexual abusers are not slow to exploit these opportunities and although you've tried to make out it doesn't happen, the press reports say otherwise. Also making out it is bullshit or nothing to worry about because it doesn't happen is a lie that you continually repeat. It is happening here and in Canada.
For some reason you are prepared to risk the safety of women in favour of a small group, mostly made up of middle-aged men with a wardrobe problem. And a small group doesn't mean an insignificant group. I'm not sure what your motives could be but there is a risk to women and girls and you are in denial.

I rarely post on here and generally sit back and enjoy the debate and learn from the vast range of opinions. However - **** off. Seriously just **** off with your transphobic hysteria.

Do you realise how much damage people like you cause to the trans community, who are often some of the most vulnerable in our society. I am the manager of a public sector facility (a leisure centre) and am proud to employ 4 trans employees. Did it cross my mind once when offering them employment that it may cause issues with them sharing toilets and changing facilities with members of the public? No. And guess what, shock horror - in the 6 months they have so far been working here it has never once been an issue for anybody despite them sharing changing facilities with members of the public in what is an extremely right wing area of the country.

Shame on you.

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

I rarely post on here and generally sit back and enjoy the debate and learn from the vast range of opinions. However - **** off. Seriously just **** off with your transphobic hysteria.

Do you realise how much damage people like you cause to the trans community, who are often some of the most vulnerable in our society. I am the manager of a public sector facility (a leisure centre) and am proud to employ 4 trans employees. Did it cross my mind once when offering them employment that it may cause issues with them sharing toilets and changing facilities with members of the public? No. And guess what, shock horror - in the 6 months they have so far been working here it has never once been an issue for anybody despite them sharing changing facilities with members of the public in what is an extremely right wing area of the country.

Shame on you.

Thanks for sharing. You should post more often.

 

[saintrichie123]

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