Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint Lives in a Chilcohüttl
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    30,628
    Likes Received:
    24,609
    What’s the point? If elected, Starmer will completely fail to reverse most of the decline Britain has suffered under the Tories, apart from a bit of tinkering around the edges. He won’t undertake the sweeping social reforms that we desperately need, and certainly won’t even glance at electoral reform. What steps will he take to HALT climate change?

    The real problem we are faced with is Johnson’s increasing drive towards authoritarianism. How much of that will Labour ever reverse?
     
    #29961
    Kaito and Ian Thumwood like this.
  2. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    18,616
    Likes Received:
    12,343
    Personally think you are wrong. There were plenty of parties to oppose brexit and it was rightly know if you were PRO brexit you went conservatives. The Tories won a majority and a load of red districts that never flipped blue did.

    Whilst you may understand brexit will affect the poor the most, i don't think they will understand it. Even now the country is going to crap but lets face it, whilst the sun and the daily mail make it out that it's a different problem, they won't understand it to be a brexit problem.

    Unfortunately, if the tories are ever to be opposed, it's not moving more to the left because that allows the tories to move more right as they don't need to pander to the centrists as much. It will be when all these fractured left parties come together or with labour going more centre.
     
    #29962
  3. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint Lives in a Chilcohüttl
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    30,628
    Likes Received:
    24,609
    I wasn't arguing that Labour should move further to the left, but to stand on some basic principles and show some leadership, rather than be led by what the electorate think is right because they have read it in the Sun or the Mail.
     
    #29963
  4. St Badger

    St Badger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    8,980
    Likes Received:
    11,599
    #29964
    AberdeenSaint and davecg69 like this.
  5. saintrichie123

    saintrichie123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    23,430
    Likes Received:
    24,548
  6. St Badger

    St Badger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    8,980
    Likes Received:
    11,599
    I see a new name is picking up support for the MPs being shown with the Union Jack behind them - flag shaggers.
    I think that works.
     
    #29966
    davecg69, Kaito, Ian Thumwood and 2 others like this.
  7. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint Lives in a Chilcohüttl
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    30,628
    Likes Received:
    24,609
    F90C441B-BE0C-411D-B364-1D0AD8EFAAC6.jpeg
     
    #29967
  8. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,121
    Likes Received:
    1,942
    Since the SNP has garnered so much support over recent years to become a very credible opposition party, it is funny how this has affected the popularity of the Union Jack. It is noticeable how prevalent the cross of St George has become and you will find it hard to discover a more obvious example of this than at England football matches. It is rather funny that the remark made by Naga Munchetty has become so provocative in the news over the last week as this has been a massive over-reaction.

    However, I think this dispute hides a fundamental truth that this flag is totally obsolete. I think this flag now only has historic value. The saltire no longer feels that it properly belongs to a national flag and attempts by "right on" newspapers like The Guardian to devise a replacement of the Union flag with the blue replaced by black to reflect the multi-cultural nature of the country does not answer the problem in the least. I am not sure how others feel on here but the rise in popularity and credibility of Scottish nationalism now feels like that there is an element of the Union Jack that does not want to be there and, in addition,it is something that a large proportion of English people now resent. Personally, I would like to see it removed from our "national flag," The cross of St George is a christian symbol which is hardly appropriate in a country where the 2nd most popular religion is Muslim and this is before you encounter the issue that it's origins stem from Eleanor of Aquitaine's marriage to the Plantagenet king Henry II. (i,e, It is more French than "English.") The St Patrick saltire is similarly Christian although it has unfortunate connections with the unpleasant Unionist elements of Irish politics. Wales, as a principality and not a country, is not represented at all. I wonder if last week's census will make it more appropriate for a future national flag to incorporate a crescent. We must be reaching the point where this is a credible argument.

    I feel that the loyalty to flags is strangely pathetic and really only something that is of historical value. Most flags are comparatively modern and date from 19th and 20th century despite the symbolism being something that has it's origins in medieval history. I believe the Danish flag is actually the world's oldest and is early medieval in origin. The Union Jack was not created until 1801 and it's antecedents only go back as far as King James I. It is therefore well overdue for replacement .

    I am inclined to agree with the assessment that some politicians adherence to the Union Jack is now reaching a point where it is unintentionally comic. It is strange that the Scottish saltire never gets questioned on the BBC but I would expect that this is largely due to Nicola Sturgeon's excellent liberal credentials. I don't like the fact that Scottish nationalists are hostile to the English who have been extremely patient with our neighbours north of the border and ,like the Irish unionists, it does have unpleasant overtones which are as repellent as those from the far right who adopt that flag of St George. I think have passed the point where the Union Jack has any value beyond comedy and must consider it something which no longer has the affection enjoyed by the Scottish saltire, the cross of St George and indeed the flag of the European Union. It is totally obsolete.
     
    #29968
  9. tiggermaster

    tiggermaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes Received:
    836
    As we live on an island off of mainland Europe and this government seem ever willing to break international law. Do we qualify for the Skull an Crossbones?
     
    #29969
  10. saintrichie123

    saintrichie123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    23,430
    Likes Received:
    24,548

  11. AberdeenSaint

    AberdeenSaint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,083
    Likes Received:
    1,920
    A crescent ? - our Jewish community would be delighted with that. Actually, rather than a crescent, I`d prefer a ball with a halo on top, a tree and two squigly blue lines.
     
    #29971
  12. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    10,891
    Likes Received:
    6,288
    By which he means no punishment at all.
     
    #29972
    saintrichie123 and davecg69 like this.
  13. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    10,891
    Likes Received:
    6,288
    All truly great and honest leaders love their national flag.


    please log in to view this image
     
    #29973
    davecg69 and thereisonlyoneno7 like this.
  14. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    57,298
    Likes Received:
    40,015
    Also known as the sea ...<laugh>
     
    #29974
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
    davecg69 and AberdeenSaint like this.
  15. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    10,891
    Likes Received:
    6,288
    All fascist regimes love their flags.

    please log in to view this image
     
    #29975
    davecg69 likes this.
  16. SaintStu

    SaintStu Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    564
    Likes Received:
    213
    I could live with the politicians flag waving if I thought it was genuine patriotism and not some self-interested point scoring and PR stunt.
    Lockdown has shown how important the local area is rather than the national, and Brexit has shown that it was not about independence but centralizing more power in Whitehall and all the money making opportunities that came with that (for the few).
    Humans do in general need to feel connected to something, it starts with family, but can be a football team, a country, or even a protest movement. It is how that need is exploited is the issue.
     
    #29976
    The Ides of March likes this.
  17. St Badger

    St Badger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    8,980
    Likes Received:
    11,599
    I think you should send this to the editors of the Mail, Express, Telegraph and Sun, for publication.
    I would love to see the responses to the inclusion of a crescent on the flag.
    I can imagine comments such as “Who the **** does he think we are? Portsmouth supporters?”
     
    #29977
    davecg69 and Archers Road like this.
  18. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    46,760
    Likes Received:
    45,592
    If we’re going heraldic, we should have a pie on the National flag; with halal and vegan options, of course.
     
    #29978
  19. AberdeenSaint

    AberdeenSaint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,083
    Likes Received:
    1,920
    I understand they represent the double tide phenomenon - but I was originally told they represent the Itchen and Test. So I`ve sat on the fence ever since !
     
    #29979
    fatletiss likes this.
  20. St Badger

    St Badger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    8,980
    Likes Received:
    11,599
    It would appear that the injuries suffered by the police in Bristol may have been exaggerated.
    The report also has evidence that this exaggeration has occurred before, but hey, the headlines have been written and the false impression has been given, allowing the government to press forward with it’s desire to stop our right to protest, whilst gaining support from the media.

    https://freedomnews.org.uk/bristol-...x5Lpmfxuik_-HBQzPntL8pmRb7E1oitnv2t53zRY1TM6g
     
    #29980
    davecg69 likes this.

Share This Page