Off Topic Politics Thread

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The Ides of March said:
Teresa May will be the next Tory leader, as she is essentially Eurosceptic but has chosen to support her Government's decision to stay in the EU. Boris would divide the party, whereas Osborne is utterly a person without character. She would prevent the party splitting apart.

From another perspective, it would be excellent for the Tory party to split up in two, thus offering the voter more choice on the right of British politics. One would be a progressive, forward thinking centre right party like Angel Merkel's Christian Democrats and the other a more reactionary conservative that is forever banging on about law and order, immigration, cutting costs, and defence.
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This is a great idea, and the Labour Party should stop being a rag tag leftie party and split into Socialists and Social Democrats. But it ain't going to happen without PR.
 
Missing Lambo said:
This is a great idea, and the Labour Party should stop being a rag tag leftie party and split into Socialists and Social Democrats. But it ain't going to happen without PR.
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They already did that back in the 80's though. Guaranteed that the Tories would be in power for the next 15 years.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Yeah, sorry about the whole Trump thing y'all.

It's kind of hard to explain what is happening. But okay, like I live on the East Coast, right? And almost every state on the East Coast is the same. There's this mountain range that the states in half. East of that range is New York City, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Boston, etc. Basically any place you have heard of or want to visit. And that part of those states is generally pretty sane. At least as a collective. I mean, in a big city there are tons of crazies but they even themselves out.

But the West half of all those states and really sweeping pretty far West... it's vast swatches of land that no one cares about. And that take lots of Federal Government dollars. And ironically, because they take so much money they feel entiled and wonder why they don't get more. Which you know is funny, since they rail against so-called "entitlements" the most. So that's part of it.

The other part is that the Baby Boomers really outnumber other generations and always have. This makes them the most selfish generation ever. In the late 60's these were the hippies. But in the 80's they were yuppies. And now they are Tea Party. There is no way to explain this massive political shift other than the policies they favor happened to be the ones that benefited them at the time.

And the situation is worse now, because these guys are all retired and have plenty of time to agitate. And they lack perspective. They really do not care what happens 20 years from now because they will be dead. All that matters is if we can keep things as close as possible to the 50's for the next 10 years and if that destroys our future it won't matter to them. Which is why the supposedly anti-government Tea Party is massively in favor of Social Security and Medicare . The only role of the government for them is to allow them to see out the rest of their lives comfortably via the tax dollars of their children.

So in short, things are not really that bad. What is actually happening is that the US is advancing, becoming more progressive and this is the last stand for those being left behind. They see the writing on the wall and it's not good so they have nothing to lose and are acting that way.

So if everyone could just bear with us for another 10 or 15 years, you'll be amazed at how quickly things turn around, I promise.
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Well blow me down it's those Hippies, The suggestion that hippies have turned into the Tea Party is an interesting sociological theory. I'm a 65 year old Hippie and pleased to report that I still believe in love and peace. My memory of the late 60s, and yes I do remember them, was that Hippies, although a well publicised grouping, was a minority of my generation. I would suggest that most members of the Tea Party in the States came from the 'Straight Community' as do most baby boomers on the far right in Europe.
 
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tiggermaster said:
Well blow me down it's those Hippies, The suggestion that hippies have turned into the Tea Party is an interesting sociological theory. I'm a 65 year old Hippie and pleased to report that I still believe in love and peace. My memory of the late 60s, and yes I do remember them, was that Hippies, although a well publicised grouping, was a minority of my generation. I would suggest that most members of the Tea Party in the States came from the 'Straight Community' as do most baby boomers on the far right in Europe.
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I agree, Tigger. It'd be those stuck-up, repressed generation or the inbred morons of the Mid West states .....
 
davecg69 said:
I agree, Tigger. It'd be those stuck-up, repressed generation or the inbred morons of the Mid West states .....
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Nope. The yokels get on TV, but Tea Party is mostly 50+, white, and slightly above average in terms of education and income. And mainly in the South, though a huge portion are not originally from the South. Which makes sense as that is where old retirees move.

Not sure how many hippies themselves did a 180, but the Tea Party is that generation. One that has become increasingly conservative as they age.

Although Moe Tucker of Velvet Underground is a Tea Partier. She disappeared out of the public eye and then one day a news station was interviewing people at a Tea Party rally and there she was. They didn't know it was her, it was just a random interview. But people saw it on the news with her being identified as "Maureen Tucker," and we're like...it can't be, can it?

So then some other sources reached out and she confirmed it was her. And went on a charming rant about how liberals were spending this country into doom while simultaneously complaining about her social security being too low.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Trump is not really that big a problem per se. It's like he's competing on his own reality show. He just says stuff to win, I don't think he honestly cares that much about being President. Nor does he believe most of the stuff he says.

Most of his suggestions are just stupid. I mean, even if you were a total bigot it's still completely impractical to say, ban Muslims. Or make Mexico pay for a wall on the border. He has very little in the way of actual policy. He just says stuff to score points with the audience.

So as President he would be embarrassing, but not really harmful. He won't get much done, nor will he try. He won't get along with even other Republicans.

The problem is really with the electorate and the present culture in this country that Trump is this popular in the first place. There are people in Congress, Governors, state legislators etc. that will get elected who are essentially Trump but a bit more clever and interested. And well.. just the fact that there are large numbers of idiotic bigots hanging out in this country is rather depressing whether they vote or get involved in government or not.
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Agreed...Trump is potentially a huge problem, but he's a symptom, not the disease itself. Even Congress is probably secondary compared to the damage being done at the state level; from Bobby Jindal to Scott Walker to Sam Brownback, and many yahoos in the state legislatures beyond them, there's a substantial population of crazies who have imbibed the Kool Aid, and unlike the first generation of such (who were mostly pandering and still had some interest in good governance) the current crop seem to be true believers by and large, with all the zeal that comes with. And unlike the political left, they vote for everything...in primaries, state elections, school boards, judges (elected judiciary is such a bad idea, heh), they turn out.

I agree that it'll probably get significantly better in a decade or two, but it could be a very ugly ride to get to that point. The subtext to Trump's rise is that the same demographic changes that will ultimately make things better is also causing them to crank the crazy up to 11. Their political power is being diluted at the same time that there's understandable economic anxiety as the jobs market becomes less secure, and those two things have gotten conflated. What genuinely worries me more than the politicians who are capitalizing on this angst is the rise of militia/sovereign citizen nuts/hate groups of various stripes; they aren't going to accept change quietly, I don't think, even if politicians cease egging them on. .
 
http://news.sky.com/story/1656080/osborne-facing-defeat-on-sunday-trading-laws

Can I just say I am not in favour of this bill as means retail workers having to work even more at the weekend and spend less time with their families. What is annoying me is the SNP sticking their oar in and trying to make out it might affect Scotland who already have extended hours. Wouldn't be at all surprised if this was just them trying to get one over on the government. I really don't see why a party I can't vote for should be having any say over matters which do not affect the constituencies they represent.
 
Whiteley Saint said:
http://news.sky.com/story/1656080/osborne-facing-defeat-on-sunday-trading-laws

What is annoying me is the SNP sticking their oar in and trying to make out it might affect Scotland who already have extended hours. Wouldn't be at all surprised if this was just them trying to get one over on the government. I really don't see why a party I can't vote for should be having any say over matters which do not affect the constituencies they represent.
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I listened to an SNP member/MP (maybe) on the radio earlier. She couldn't really justify their reasons for wanting to vote, having said they wouldn't vote on "England only" matters. If they vote on this just to screw things up (and I am indifferent either way on the vote), then I will be putting pen to paper to their leader.
 
fatletiss said:
I listened to an SNP member/MP (maybe) on the radio earlier. She couldn't really justify their reasons for wanting to vote, having said they wouldn't vote on "England only" matters. If they vote on this just to screw things up (and I am indifferent either way on the vote), then I will be putting pen to paper to their leader.
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As I understand it, SNP will vote to protect their Sunday workers, who receive Sunday premiums for the hours they work. They recognise that, under this Government, Sunday workers in England will probably be working for flat rate, or just above, but less than in Scotland, and have stated that it could impact on the rates paid north of the border, leaving Scottish shop workers worse off.
Having been a newsagent, for 12 years, and spent a further 10 years with a major supermarket, working Sunday's became the norm for me. Sunday pay, with the supermarket started off as double time, then was reduced to a "premium payment" that was less than double time. Haven't a clue what it is now, but probably more beneficial to the employer than the employee.
Allowing longer working hours would benefit those who can only work Sunday's, however, I can't help but think that those that want extended trading hours, or who don't give a toss, are probably those with 9-5, Monday to Friday jobs, who won't have their home life affected by this. Like the MPs that will be deciding this.
 
St Badger said:
As I understand it, SNP will vote to protect their Sunday workers, who receive Sunday premiums for the hours they work. They recognise that, under this Government, Sunday workers in England will probably be working for flat rate, or just above, but less than in Scotland, and have stated that it could impact on the rates paid north of the border, leaving Scottish shop workers worse off.
Having been a newsagent, for 12 years, and spent a further 10 years with a major supermarket, working Sunday's became the norm for me. Sunday pay, with the supermarket started off as double time, then was reduced to a "premium payment" that was less than double time. Haven't a clue what it is now, but probably more beneficial to the employer than the employee.
Allowing longer working hours would benefit those who can only work Sunday's, however, I can't help but think that those that want extended trading hours, or are don't give a toss, are probably those with 9-5, Monday to Friday jobs, who won't have their home life affected by this. Like the MPs that will be deciding this.
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As I said, I am indifferent here. I am a mile away from a 9-5 job (my wife gave me a bollocking last week for agreeing to an important meeting when I have a week off :( )

I just feel that this is going to be the first of many where they find a reason for "playing" with their votes. I don't understand the rule of the land with the Scottish Government and how much power they have, but if they are concerned so much about their Sunday workers, can't they introduce some law there to protect their current levels of pay? The flip side to this is that it could create more work for those that need it; there is always two sides to a coin.
 
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Thou shalt keep the sabbath day holy. Worked for 3,000 years, and as far as I can see, everybody benefited. No room for such sentimentality in these materialistic times though - let every day be given over to the worship of mammon.
 
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St Badger said:
As I understand it, SNP will vote to protect their Sunday workers, who receive Sunday premiums for the hours they work. They recognise that, under this Government, Sunday workers in England will probably be working for flat rate, or just above, but less than in Scotland, and have stated that it could impact on the rates paid north of the border, leaving Scottish shop workers worse off.
Having been a newsagent, for 12 years, and spent a further 10 years with a major supermarket, working Sunday's became the norm for me. Sunday pay, with the supermarket started off as double time, then was reduced to a "premium payment" that was less than double time. Haven't a clue what it is now, but probably more beneficial to the employer than the employee.
Allowing longer working hours would benefit those who can only work Sunday's, however, I can't help but think that those that want extended trading hours, or who don't give a toss, are probably those with 9-5, Monday to Friday jobs, who won't have their home life affected by this. Like the MPs that will be deciding this.
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Agree with a lot of what you are saying except you're wrong about MP's working hours. They do more hours than you think.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/apr/23/who-works-most-teachers-or-mps
 
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