Off Topic Politics Thread

[Archers Road]

I was including affordable rented as you say

What does the bit in bold mean?

My point on social housing is the people who “need it most” are the old, out of work, sick and disabled and there is often none left for lower income in-work families. I’m not knocking those who get it but the fact there’s not enough

Your observations are indicative of the huge changes - the revolution really - in housing policy that occurred after 1980. Before then, council housing was not seen as a benefit or handout for the poor, it’s purpose was to provide decent affordable rented accommodation to working people, as an absolute basic human right. There was a cross party consensus on this, to the extent that st one point Harold Macmillan’s Conservative government was building 350,000 council homes a year.

Margaret Thatcher privatised housing as she privatised everything else. Now the disaster that many predicted has come to pass as generations of young working people are locked out of the housing market and forced to rent in an unregulated and exploitative private sector. That’s if they can afford to leave their parents home at all.

 

[Kaito]

Your observations are indicative of the huge changes - the revolution really - in housing policy that occurred after 1980. Before then, council housing was not seen as a benefit or handout for the poor, it’s purpose was to provide decent affordable rented accommodation to working people, as an absolute basic human right. There was a cross party consensus on this, to the extent that st one point Harold Macmillan’s Conservative government was building 350,000 council homes a year.

Margaret Thatcher privatised housing as she privatised everything else. Now the disaster that many predicted has come to pass as generations of young working people are locked out of the housing market and forced to rent in an unregulated and exploitative private sector. That’s if they can afford to leave their parents home at all.

Never has a truer word been spoken.

 

[VocalMinority]

I was including affordable rented as you say

What does the bit in bold mean?

My point on social housing is the people who “need it most” are the old, out of work, sick and disabled and there is often none left for lower income in-work families. I’m not knocking those who get it but the fact there’s not enough

I meant to say you have to laugh if not you will cry, not sure how that changed, i blame my phone . Basically, Social rented properties are allocated from the housing list managed by the local council. So they decide who gets the property and give benefits to make sure they can afford it. Affordable rented properties are rented privately and will be subject to affordability checks. Im not actually sure if benefits are always included as part of affordability checks for affordable homes either. we certainly don't include benefits in checks for market rent properties but I'm not sure on affordable. Either way the landlord has right of refusal which isn't the case with social rented properties.


Anyway I completely agree with your points, i was only trying to add to it as the government has made this a confusing mess ( I think on purpose )

 

[ChilcoSaint]

There are two deciding factors in this election Brexit and Corbyn. On the former Pfeffel and his cronies have succeeded in persuading the hoi polloi that it's in their interest, quite counter intuitively I would say as membership of the EU is likely to contribute to a healthy economy and leaving not so.

The Corbyn issue is more complex. Undoubtedly the vast majority of the media are against him but I don't think that is the whole story. I think that if Labour were led by for example Hillary Benn, Yvette Cooper or Keir Starmer then the smears would not have stuck to anything like the same extent. The only thing that can save Labour now would be a comprehensive victory in the debate tonight. Personally I think that Corbyn is capable of that, not because I think that he is particular good but rather that Pfeffel is a blustering waffler who could collapse under attack. It's the same reason he won't face Andrew Neil. The bloke is a man of straw.

The revelation on the Northern Ireland Protocol this morning will help as well. I’m sure we’ll get waffling denial from Johnson this evening, served up with a copy of Roget’s Thesaurus, but I hope Corbyn gets a chance to hit hard.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Your observations are indicative of the huge changes - the revolution really - in housing policy that occurred after 1980. Before then, council housing was not seen as a benefit or handout for the poor, it’s purpose was to provide decent affordable rented accommodation to working people, as an absolute basic human right. There was a cross party consensus on this, to the extent that st one point Harold Macmillan’s Conservative government was building 350,000 council homes a year.

Margaret Thatcher privatised housing as she privatised everything else. Now the disaster that many predicted has come to pass as generations of young working people are locked out of the housing market and forced to rent in an unregulated and exploitative private sector. That’s if they can afford to leave their parents home at all.

The main issue with Right to Buy was that councils were forbidden to use the money accrued for building more council houses.

 

[VocalMinority]

The main issue with Right to Buy was that councils were forbidden to use the money accrued for building more council houses.

I know housing associations can use the money to build more social homes. (but why would then when they can build affordable homes and make more money). But the money we get back from a sale isn't enough to build a home anywhere but the cheapest, poorest areas. We get nowhere near the value of the property sold.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I know housing associations can use the money to build more social homes. (but why would then when they can build affordable homes and make more money). But the money we get back from a sale isn't enough to build a home anywhere but the cheapest, poorest areas. We get nowhere near the value of the property sold.

You obviously know a lot more about it than I do, but back in the 80’s councils lost a huge lever for improving people’s lives. The best housing stock went as well, I remember one of my aunts being moved from a 1930’s terrace with an outside loo to a brand new semi, which she was promptly allowed to buy. Crazy.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

More on the NI leak from Starmer:

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[Archers Road]

The main issue with Right to Buy was that councils were forbidden to use the money accrued for building more council houses.

Yeah, the policy itself wasn't the problem, st least not in isolation. The right to buy was discussed - and rejected, rightly in my view - at a Labour Party conference some time in the 70s. Refusing to allow councils to reinvest the receipts in new homes was criminal, an example of Thatcher's occasionally vindictive nature.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

I meant to say you have to laugh if not you will cry, not sure how that changed, i blame my phone . Basically, Social rented properties are allocated from the housing list managed by the local council. So they decide who gets the property and give benefits to make sure they can afford it. Affordable rented properties are rented privately and will be subject to affordability checks. Im not actually sure if benefits are always included as part of affordability checks for affordable homes either. we certainly don't include benefits in checks for market rent properties but I'm not sure on affordable. Either way the landlord has right of refusal which isn't the case with social rented properties.

Anyway I completely agree with your points, i was only trying to add to it as the government has made this a confusing mess ( I think on purpose )

Part of the confusion being that some "Social" Housing is "Affordably" rented both from the Council and from Housing Association properties working from the Housing List. Southampton has a lot of Council houses and less HAs

Edit:
I've checked this and I get what you mean now. I didn't realise that when "social" housing became "affordable" it stopped being called "social"

As an aside, I have known many who would only bid on SCC as they knew they would be looked after better than some HAs. In Dorset they are all HAs. The difference in quality can be apparent. SCC generally looks after its tenants well. The difference in quality of Social Housing services between Labour Southampton and Tory Dorset is apparent

 

[VocalMinority]

You obviously know a lot more about it than I do, but back in the 80’s councils lost a huge lever for improving people’s lives. The best housing stock went as well, I remember one of my aunts being moved from a 1930’s terrace with an outside loo to a brand new semi, which she was promptly allowed to buy. Crazy.

I only really know the recent past. and what you said could well still be true for councils, i don't know. Right to buy has changed quite a bit even in the last couple of years. When the conservatives announced they were going extend right to buy they didn't say how it would work. The national housing federation (housing association body) got annoyed with the uncertainty and gave some proposals on how it could work and the day after the conservatives adopted it without even bothering to negotiate with us. (not even sure they they actually read it) just hailed it as a massive victory for political points without caring about anything else. But we had put in a lot of clauses like we don't have to sell properties where we have spent money on adaptions etc.

Anyways, i can also tell you tales of ****ty right to buy issues. We had a really nice neighborhood in, i think it was Alton. Big gardens, rolling fields and hills behind. Some company came in, offered to buy the properties from the residents after they bought the property via RTB from us and promised to rent it back to them after. But then once they had bought the properties they hiked up the rent and everyone but the tenants that stayed with us were evicted.

Again, i think rules have been brought in to stop that sort of thing now, but its still a major contributor to our reduced social housing stock when we need more of it.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Part of the confusion being that some "Social" Housing is "Affordably" rented both from the Council and from Housing Association properties working from the Housing List. Southampton has a lot of Council houses and less HAs

As an aside, I have known many who would only bid on SCC as they knew they would be looked after better than some HAs. In Dorset they are all HAs. The difference in quality can be apparent. SCC generally looks after its tenants well. The difference in quality of Social Housing services between Labour Southampton and Tory Dorset is apparent

I’m looking forward to Mendip Council getting stuck in, especially under a Labour government. After years of Tory stagnation, the council went to joint Lib Dem/Green control in May, and the Local Plan Part 2 has just been amended by the Planning Inspector to show a shortfall of over 3,000 houses, which have to be built by 2029. There will have to be infrastructure upgrades as well, so there will be a lot of happy builders out there.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

The main issue with Right to Buy was that councils were forbidden to use the money accrued for building more council houses.

The main issue with RTB was it was Political

 

[VocalMinority]

Part of the confusion being that some "Social" Housing is "Affordably" rented both from the Council and from Housing Association properties working from the Housing List. Southampton has a lot of Council houses and less HAs

Edit:
I've checked this and I get what you mean now. I didn't realise that when "social" housing became "affordable" it stopped being called "social"

As an aside, I have known many who would only bid on SCC as they knew they would be looked after better than some HAs. In Dorset they are all HAs. The difference in quality can be apparent. SCC generally looks after its tenants well. The difference in quality of Social Housing services between Labour Southampton and Tory Dorset is apparent

Yeah, you can have 2 properties right next to each other both identical, both owned by the same HA, receiving the same services but one being socially rented and one affordably. Had complaints when people found out they were paying more than their neighbors. hard to deal with as you cant explain about the neighbors tenancy due to GDPR .

The way that they are priced, allocated and rented is completely different between the two though, which is the difference.

 

[StJabbo1]

Your observations are indicative of the huge changes - the revolution really - in housing policy that occurred after 1980. Before then, council housing was not seen as a benefit or handout for the poor, it’s purpose was to provide decent affordable rented accommodation to working people, as an absolute basic human right. There was a cross party consensus on this, to the extent that st one point Harold Macmillan’s Conservative government was building 350,000 council homes a year.

Margaret Thatcher privatised housing as she privatised everything else. Now the disaster that many predicted has come to pass as generations of young working people are locked out of the housing market and forced to rent in an unregulated and exploitative private sector. That’s if they can afford to leave their parents home at all.

This worth a read.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...argaret-thatcher-david-cameron-housing-crisis.
And this on local councils setting up their own local housing companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/25/thatcher-right-to-buy-new-council-housing
This a quote from the article
"Housing secretary Sajid Javid is blamed by many for undercutting the enthusiasm and energy behind this new programme by threatening to extend the right to buy to incorporate councils’ privately constructed homes".
He really is a first class arsehole. I struggle to find the words to express my contempt for spaffer Johnson and his crooked cronies.
Edit: Another quote, this action taken by Bracknell Forest council.
''Housing local homeless people led the council to spend £13m in two years buying 32 properties using an LHC. Housing local homeless people led the council to spend £13m in two years buying 32 properties using an LHC. The previously homeless tenants pay rent from housing benefit, saving the council around £500,000 a year."
All the drive to improve the situation is by local councils and in spite of tory government policy.

 

[StJabbo1]

The main issue with Right to Buy was that councils were forbidden to use the money accrued for building more council houses.

As Archers said criminal. As ever it's those that can least afford that are at the sharp end of a nationwide problem.

 

[San Tejón]

Took this from a column by John Pilger, to highlight privatisation and why it isn’t good for the country.

“Sutherland Lodge in Chelmsford, Essex, is a GPs’ practice once considered a “flagship model” for the care of the elderly and patients with special needs.

It covered specialist areas from mental health to dermatology.
In 2015, the Care Quality Commission awarded the practice its highest rating of “outstanding”.

Two months later, a third of its funding was suddenly taken away and the practice, which had never made a loss, was declared “not value for money”.

Carol Sams, the practice manager, went to Whitehall and asked Health Minister Alistair Burt why. “Sorry, policy,” he said. It was a policy that dared not speak its name: privatisation.

Shortly afterwards, Virgin Care, “won” the contract for Sutherland Lodge. Offering fewer services than the previous GPs, Virgin was awarded a substantially increased budget.

Less than a year later, the Care Quality Commission placed the Virgin-run practice in “special measures”, rating it “inadequate” in almost all areas of care.”

 

[San Tejón]

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[StJabbo1]

Brilliant from Led by Donkeys.

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[Farked19]

The Andrew Neil monologue is potentially the most damaging of anything so far. Labour should go with it to the exclusion of all else.