Make Britain Cheap Again
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Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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The EU is not the problem. They're being perfectly amenable, actually bending over backwards for you all.
The problem is that I don't think you can get the customs union arrangement passed in the UK. It doesn't address the issues that led the Leavers to want to leave in the first place. And if you're just going to decide that the Brexiters are idiots (as you probably should), then just stay in the EU.
So in that case we should stay in the EU and continue to have considerable influence on policy.
Remember that only 52% voted to leave.
When we start talking second choice then the vast majority of the remainers are going to go for a customs union over hard brexit and you only need a tiny percentage of leavers to support it to make that the preferred option.
In a decent referendum if remain doesnt get a majority then I am sure a customs union would before no deal or may/boris' brexit.
Obviously there is no deal that comes close to being as good as the one we already have. That’s a given,
Add in the coming of age of so many teenagers, and the loss of life of the elderly, there could be quite a swing.
This is an article from the Independent, from September 2018, looking at this precise thing.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...um-brexit-no-deal-crossover-day-a8541576.html
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Although everyone who voted Leave voted for a Customs Union, because that was what was promised.
The ERG will vote for this (contrare to the suggestions above that they will use the DUP as an excuse not to) and if you think only "a handful" of Labour MPs will vote for this then you will be pretty upset with a fair few more of them on Saturday.
This will be a very close vote and is within a few votes of getting through. DUP not needed.
The only correct assumption above is Farage is a threat to the Tories in a GE now. If this were a straight fight between Labour, Lib Dems and Tory it would be a slam dunk for the Tories. The left can't win without Farage's help at this moment in time. Lib Dem numbers are swolen by Tory safe seats that Tories will win back. Labour (traditional) leave seats will be watching who votes where very closely this weekend and will swing to Farage from Labour if they don't like what they see and that might mean Tories sneaking through in a few seats there.
It's a hit deal, a big sell out, but that's the only Brexit in town because the politicians have decided it to be so and thus for most leavers it will be accepted.
And then maybe we can expect the media to stop parroting the globalists' statements "The EU has been very clear they will not open the withdrawal agreement." They have opened the withdrawal agreement. "The EU has insisted the backstop must stay in." The backstop has gone.
The media need to stop taking their viewers for fools trying to push this kind of propaganda when the reality was always there would be movement closer to the deadline IF we held out rather than say "hey ho, they've just said it won;t happen so we'll have to believe that is the end of it."
People on here thinking this will be May No 4 with a big loss are not really on the ball here. It may well lose but I suspect this deal will sneak through by a small margin. Not by a large margin like 52:48 but a small margin. 50.3% : 49.7%. That's how democracy works in this country.
Yvette Cooper will barely hang on to her seat despite a currently very healthy majority ATM!!! Not a great candidate for leadership although there aren't many in the party that would be. Kier Starmer is so smarmy he makes Tories look nice. John Mann of course is probably all your "enemy No1" internally because of his Brexit stance but he is the sort Labour should have as leader.........and he would not be ignoring his principles if he was in the job like Corbyn "man of principle" is doing. He is still more leaver than most that voted leave.
No-one mentioning the largest poll so far that was at the heart of CH5s debate last night? The reality that they are finding more remainers would switch then vice versa, contrary to the popularly stated reverse of that?
Hello Imps surprise surprise been on holiday? Whatever will be will be. Poles go up yer hole pal, split vote for deal/no deal poles historically inaccurate ask dis may and gatemouth farage. Lets just go to a new referendum deal or remain. You can't possibly favour a no deal option you're not a self harmer.
Think you are probably right.
But IMO, customs union is probably just punting the problem down the line. Which, I mean in that respect it's actually not a bad solution. You didn't really leave, you didn't really stay, every side can spin it how they want. See how it goes for a bit. It's kind of an indefinite delay.
I would support-- and I think many others would as well-- Corbyn as long as he is resisting attempts by certain parties to bulldoze the country into something they haven't agreed to. He wants the people to get a chance to vote on Brexit and the government. Which you know, can't really criticize him for that.
But to me it's like "Hey thanks for all this, appreciate the opportunity to make my voice heard." But when it comes time to actually make my voice heard, I would not be voting Labour.
I was not really talking about Brexit, but Corbyn. Whatever happens with Brexit isn't going to fix the underlying issues that led to this whole mess. Just like impeaching Trump or voting him out of office isn't really going to be the solution Democrats hope it will be either. It buys time by getting rid of the immediate, grave danger. But people who voted for Trump are not going to change their minds on immigration, social conservatism, etc. And the younger people who have had to deal with Trump are not going to get any less angry or radical.
There's a cultural war going on. Is Corbyn the right guy to lead us to peace, and is he on my side in it? In my opinion, the answer is no. I'm not enthused about the present crop of Democrats in the US, tbf. It's a difficult task. I couldn't do it. I don't have answers. It would take someone very special to fix things, and I don't see anyone capable right now.
The best hope is that old people die, and that would at least eliminate a lot of the worst fringe right. But I don't even know if the left can make peace amongst their various factions. And the schism on the left has been happening for awhile, just like the splintering of the right. It makes you appreciate how incredible Obama was to keep the US, and to some degree the EU and the world together as much as he did. The odds seem pretty thing we get another person as great as he was. Plus, the very factors that made Obama so great are ones that are now considered disqualifying in today's political climate.