Off Topic Paris Attacks !

[NSIS]

So you dont think people should be brought to justice and to find out why and what went on? Instead we should just wipe them out.

Get them to explain what, for Christ's sake?? Explain how he was filmed beheading several innocent, defenseless people?? And seemingly taking great pleasure in it!?

You really think ISIS are misunderstood and just need sitting down and being given a good talking to?

Corbyn is a fruit loop! What's he plan to do? Send over a couple of good old British bobbies to say, "you're nicked, Jihadi John, come along quietly now"

 

[Highburyal]

I'm not a religious man, just isn't the way I was brought up.

What seems clear to me is that all religious texts, be they Islamic, Christian, whatever, are open to interpretation, and to abuse by those who would twist what has been written for their own aims.

Again, I've never read the Quran, but I get the sense from what's been posted here that this is pretty much what ISIS are doing.

ISIS try and use bits of Quran for their own benefit and power struggle and Media does the same. They both have their own agenda...

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

Religion is the best and worst thing to happen to civilisation.

 

[Highburyal]

Get them to explain what, for Christ's sake?? Explain how he was filmed beheading several innocent, defenseless people?? And seemingly taking great pleasure in it!?

You really think ISIS are misunderstood and just need sitting down and being given a good talking to?

Corbyn is a fruit loop! What's he plan to do? Send over a couple of good old British bobbies to say, "you're nicked, Jihadi John, come along quietly now"

Thats not what I said, if there is a justice system then that is what we should use, otherwise there is no difference between them and us.

 

[PINKIE]

I'll chime in (sorry, didn't think I'd end up typing all that I did...)
First up.. I'm a Muslim.. there I said it...
Secondly, my ethnic origin is Pakistani..
I'm born and breed in the UK...
Educated (sort of..) don't remember much of Uni...
Been working ever since Uni.. not taken a penny from the government
I'm married... Two kids, boy and girl...
I'm a Liverpool fan..
I have issues supporting the England cricket team when they play against Pakistan (not going great in the ODI's but its the Tests that count ).. otherwise, I'm proud to wear the rose/three lions...
I like golf, the only sport I've ever been half decent at..

Anyone back on topic... forgive me, not read through all the comments.. so some points may have been addressed...
I'd categorise myself has a moderate western assimilated Muslim..
I don't preach hate (well that's a lie, I've bought up my son to hate Man United..)
I'm against taking of lives, be they innocent or ones that some may think "deserve" to die, you know, kiddy fiddlers, serial killers, rapist, George Bush and Tony Blair...
I've been bought up that way, by my parents, who, shock horror are Muslims too.. my kids have been bought up with similar values and I hope they take these on board and add to them with good values of their own!
As a Muslim, I could do better, I don't always pray five times a day.. I watch the odd bit of Porn... but other than the odd "vice" (excessive amounts of golf) I'm good man (I think), I don't and have never done drugs, smoked, drunk alcohol, that to a certain degree was due to my up bringing as a Muslim, peer pressure was never an issue, to do such things never interested me, plus I saved loads of money not being addicted to that ****e..
I have no issues with Gay people, people of different race (no, I won't use the.. "I've some black/white mates" I do but I won't...), religion or lack of religion, we're all human, we all have flaws, and as long as this flaws aren't fundamentally wrong, then don't hate, learn from one another..
I'm pretty certain that the vast majority of the Muslims in the UK are more like me than the nut jobs that continue to hijack my religion..

What are we as a community doing about IT?
Within my extended family, we're doing our best to uphold our beliefs and morals..
Within the mosque I attend. I know the Imam has forever preached to everyone for inclusion, be part of the community for the greater good of the community, be a positive not a negative, be a giver not a taker.
I will agree to a certain degree, that some communities tend to keep matters in house, I think that should be stopped, I'd rather my family be "shamed" for handing in a relative with "non-islamic" beliefs than see said person go on to kill one person, I would like to add that this attitude however has nothing to do with Islam but more to do with a cultural up bringing of these communities..
Bit like the IRA not handing in one of their own, or the KKK for banishing a dragon because he dared to look at a black woman and thought, "you know what, I would!" I digress..

Now, if I may, add my grievance to this debate... Am I entilted to have one.. seen some express there's in this thread and its become an "agenda" I have no agenda..
Given the good my mosque tries to do, why is this institution not highlighted more and many others like it in the UK? Not saying don't report on the Mosque that is preaching hate, by all means, do so, but ever heard about balance?
The majority of news on Islam/Imams, Mosque's is, for want of a better word, bad, so, the main stream folk, who like their news spoon feed, automatically assume Mosque = Bad = Islam = Terrorist = Bunch of ****s!
So by the general tarring of Islam I am a ****? and Islam is full of nut job hate filled terrorists? From my point of view, that couldn't be further from the truth..

Going back to my "Moderate" Islamic practice.. I for one don't preach about it, I simply don't have enough knowledge on Islam, but I'm pretty certain I know more about it than 99% of non-Muslims...
Yet whenever IS/Talaban commit an atrocity everyone becomes an expert, that does make laugh, you have no intrinsic knowledge of the religion, you nit pick at certain verses in the Koran similar to the like of IS, you/they take the part they believe benefits them/their agenda/news circulation.

A bit back ground on the Koran.. One of the wonders of the Koran was the language it was written in.. its written in a very poetic form of Arabic, a form that if interpreted incorrectly can mean something totally different, now there were four main Imam's, Abu Hanifa, Malik, Al-Shafi and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal they spent their entire lives researching the Koran and its meaning as well as associating the teachings of the Prophet PBUH (otherwise known has Hadith) with the teachings in the Koran itself, you can't have one without the other.. did you know that?

Given this, what makes anyone (I include myself in this..) that's not done similar, that doesn't have a grasp on the Arabic the Koran is written in, never spoke to those that were in the company of our Prophet PBUH, as the Imam's I've mentioned above have, how do they become an expert? Because they did a Goggle search, listened Fox News or BBC Middle Correspondent??
My local Imam, who is a lovely humble man, he claims not to know everything about Islam, far from it and on occasions will defer to his teachers (Mufti's) for advice..

Before I go on.. as anyone lost a relative to a terrorist act carried our by the IS/Taliban?
I have.. I have lost 4 family members, two uncles, a cousin and a nephew...
They didn't blow themselves up... They were fighting the Taliban... For you and me.. Did you light a candle for them? start a Twitter campaign hold a moments silence... these guys were Muslims...
The Taliban and IS have killed more Muslims than Westerners! Where's the outrage when they die?
Again, I'm a moderate Muslim with good western values, but even I get "outraged" by the blatant double standards in the media in its reporting of events..
Muslims killed by IS/Taliban.. meh...
IS/Taliban kill non-muslims, outrage (I'll include myself, I'm outraged too but I'm also outraged when Muslims are killed to, no more no less!)

I could go on.. but I need to go post in the Brazilian GP thread...
In short, the killings on Friday saddened me, I cried, loss of life is sad time.
Do I as a Muslim feel I need to apologies for the actions of these terrorists, no, because its MY BELIEF that the idiots that carried out these actions are not Muslims, they're members of nut job cult that twists the teachings to suit their own beliefs!

If I did apologies, would I then be entitled to apology from every one that voted for Labour? After all it was Blair that invaded Iraq on a lie and killed millions of innocent people and lead to the death (unnecessary) of our service men and woman, the same applies to all those that voted in George Bush (twice FFS!)

The world is broke, it needs fixing, not sure those in charge have a clue how to do it.. because, those that are in charge are has morally corrupt as those they wish to defeat...

Thank you for this.

And for the part about the Quran being written in a language that is open to interpretation (a bit like the parables in the Bible ...)

To me it seems that anybody with a dogmatic agenda will cherry pick, twist and warp a Holy text to suit their own ends. Europeans were doing it throughout the world during their colonisations of Africa and the Americas and fighting amongst themselves in their homelands, whilst sending crusades to the middle east.

To me, killing somebody because they don't believe in the same spiritual leader as your own is a complete contradiction to the core message of any religion.

 

[NSIS]

Thats not what I said, if there is a justice system then that is what we should use, otherwise there is no difference between them and us.

This is war! ISIS have said so themselves! Therefore rules of war apply.

 

[Highburyal]

Get them to explain what, for Christ's sake?? Explain how he was filmed beheading several innocent, defenseless people?? And seemingly taking great pleasure in it!?

You really think ISIS are misunderstood and just need sitting down and being given a good talking to?

Corbyn is a fruit loop! What's he plan to do? Send over a couple of good old British bobbies to say, "you're nicked, Jihadi John, come along quietly now"

Not only that in killing Jihadi John, do you even know if there were innocents that were killed as well? And if so does that not matter? Does the end justifies the means?

 

[PINKIE]

Not only that in killing Jihadi John, do you even know if there were innocents that were killed as well? And if so does that not matter? Does the end justifies the means?

Exactly, the West could have brought Saddam Hussein to trial, but they chose to let the Iraqi henchmen hang him.
Too many uncomfortable truths would come out in a war crimes trial for any of these 'terrorists' to be tried in a court of law.

 

[NSIS]

Not only that in killing Jihadi John, do you even know if there were innocents that were killed as well? And if so does that not matter? Does the end justifies the means?

He was what's termed a 'high value target'. Just as any senior Nazi would have even in WW2.

By innocents, I assume you mean the others who were traveling with him when this paragon of humanity was killed? Oh, I'm sure they were babes in the wood! -

 

[Highburyal]

To me, killing somebody because they don't believe in the same spiritual leader as your own is a complete contradiction to the core message of any religion.

Thats exactly the point, but it does not suit certain peoples agenda to see that, otherwise how would the people/religion bashing go on......

The same thing happens with the media and wrongly go on about the suicide bombers killing themselves because they are promised virgins! I would love for anyone to show me where it states that you kill yourself and innocents and you get rewarded in heaven with the virgins!

 

[Highburyal]

This is war! ISIS have said so themselves! Therefore rules of war apply.

What the rules of war says people shouldn't be brought to justice and cold killing is allowed?

 

[Highburyal]

He was what's termed a 'high value target'. Just as any senior Nazi would have even in WW2.

By innocents, I assume you mean the others who were traveling with him when this paragon of humanity was killed? Oh, I'm sure they were babes in the wood! -

You mean to say categorically that he was killed in a vehicle and there were no innocents in the occupied land and even if there were who cares right because they are not westerners, only the pesky muslims!

 

[NSIS]

What the rules of war says people shouldn't be brought to justice and cold killing is allowed?

War is, unfortunately, perpetrated by trying to kill your enemy before they kill you. That's how war works!

If you're expecting me to feel in any way sorry that that boil on the arse of humanity is no longer with us, you're ****ing dreaming!...

Those who are taken alive in war, are taken because they chose to surrender. Those that don't, are killed.

 

[Deleted #]

So you dont think people should be brought to justice and to find out why and what went on? Instead we should just wipe them out.

Goodness me

 

[Deleted #]

You mean to say categorically that he was killed in a vehicle and there were no innocents in the occupied land and even if there were who cares right because they are not westerners, only the pesky muslims!

Again, this is only you coming out with comments like this. Keep saying it enough though and you'll keep believing it's happening

Highburyal, are you saying Muslims can't also be westerners? It sure looks that way mind...

 

[Deleted #]

What the rules of war says people shouldn't be brought to justice and cold killing is allowed?

We haven't even got boots on the ground, he would have been one of the most protected men within ISIS. There's no guarantee we would take him alive either. Just let him carry on lobbing heads off though, it would be wrong of us to kill our enemy

 

[Deleted #]

Why don't we just put an end to all the trouble by going in and arresting that tinker, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. Seems logical

 

[Highburyal]

War is, unfortunately, perpetrated by trying to kill your enemy before they kill you. That's how war works!

If you're expecting me to feel in any way sorry that that boil on the arse of humanity is no longer with us, you're ****ing dreaming!...

Those who are taken alive in war, are taken because they chose to surrender. Those that don't, are killed.

Isn't that one of the reasons why we are where are today? We destroyed Iraq, Libya and helping destroy Syria and leaving/training these pockets of rebels and terrorists, that eventually come after the west!

I am not expecting you to feel sorry, what I am saying is if you don't care about killing innocents in the ME to achieve your goals then surely you cant expect them to care about killing innocents in the West? Anyone that justifies innocents being killed to get what they want is pathetic in my view.

Why not destroy the Oil Fields that are under the control of ISIS as well? Because it doesn't suit us to do that as we will want them and need them from the puppets we setup at some stage.

 

[Highburyal]

We haven't even got boots on the ground, he would have been one of the most protected men within ISIS. There's no guarantee we would take him alive either. Just let him carry on lobbing heads off though, it would be wrong of us to kill our enemy

Read and understand my posts before commenting! There is more than one way to skin a cat so to speak.

 

[Highburyal]

Why don't we just put an end to all the trouble by going in and arresting that tinker, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. Seems logical

Cant do that because then who will be the big bad wolf! We need someone to churn out the war propaganda and arms sales all over the world.