Off Topic OLOF's political thread

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ellandback said:
Nope, I actually don't have a clue about politics. I don't understand a word of it.

All I know is that when we had the referendum, both sides lied to us to such a degree that it should be void.
Click to expand...
The only facts of the referendum were in or out, you should have made your mind up then voted. But you didn't do either did you <doh>
 
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ellandback said:
Here's an A to Z list of Brexit lies


If the alphabet was 1,000 letters long, you’d still have no trouble filling it from start to finish with the lies of Brexit. No other topic in our nation’s history has inspired so many untruths.

As it is, you’ll have to settle for 26. As we head towards God knows what on 29 March, it is timely to look back and reflect on the lies, and the liars, who got us this far. So here’s my A to Z of Brexit lies. Please feel free to suggest any additions to me on Twitter (@mk1969). I think there could be a book deal in this.

A is for Anglo-Irish relationship. “Nor is there any prospect of security checks returning to the border. The common travel area between the UK and Ireland pre-dates our EU membership and will outlast it. The unique status Irish citizens are accorded in the UK predates EU membership and will outlast it. There is no reason why the UK’s only land border should be any less open after Brexit than it is today.” Theresa Villiers, Vote Leave press release, 14 April 2016


B is for Billions. Thirty-nine of them to be precise. That's the cost of exiting the European Union. Hard Brexiteers such as Dominic Raab like to kid on that we won't be paying Brussels a penny if we leave without a deal, just the kind of gung-ho statement you'd expect from a man who only recently realised Dover was an important trading port. The chancellor of the exchequer says we will have to pay a big chunk, deal or no deal.



C is for Cameron. Perhaps fittingly, Brexit began with a lie that accidentally came true. David Cameron’s 2015 manifesto promise of a second referendum was designed to keep Tory EU haters happy. He assumed he’d be blocked by Liberal Democrat coalition partners and then he went and won a majority. Which is why C is also for Catastrophe. Cameron also promised he would stay on as PM if Leave won. He quit immediately.

D is for Daily Mail. The Mail, under past editor Paul Dacre, spread more lies about the EU than any other newspaper, but between them and the Telegraph, Sun, and Express, the creativity of journalism around our relationship with Europe has been exceptional. From excessively curved bananas to milk jugs being banned, from euro notes making you impotent to cows being forced to wear nappies and Bombay mix having to be renamed, our press has waged a decades-long campaign to ridicule the EU. But who’s looking ridiculous now?


E is for Election. “There isn’t going to be one. It isn’t going to happen. There is not going to be a general election.” So said Theresa May’s spokesman in March 2017. A month later, and with soaring 41 per cent approval ratings (three times more popular than Jeremy Corbyn at the time) she “reluctantly” told the nation that a vote was necessary to strengthen her hand in EU negotiations. She lost her majority, throwing the entire process into the abject state of chaos that is Britain today.

F is for Fox. International secretary Liam Fox sold us on the idea of a glorious global Britain, once again creating new waves of international trading and prosperity. “The free trade agreement we will have to do should be one of the easiest in human history,” he said. F is also for* F**ing Idiot.

F is also for Farage. Of the great litany of untruths and outright lies told by the self-styled “Mister Brexit”, perhaps the most heinous was his "Breaking Point" poster, a moment when his xenophobia transcended its usual dog-whistle status into outright blatant racism.

G is for Gove. “The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.” Take a bow, Michael Gove. Thirty-two months later and Britain is still hopelessly lost, no Brexit pathway in sight.


H is for Health Tourism. One of the dog-whistle scares sold to readers of the Daily Mail, Sun and Express during the runup to the Referendum was the extraordinary cost of so-called health tourism – people travelling to the UK solely to benefit from our generous health system. In the case of EU citizens, this is a total fabrication. The truth is that British citizens in the EU receive five times the value of the treatment we give to EU citizens here.

H is also for Hell. It’s going to be a crowded place if Donald Tusk is correct.

I is for Immigration. The idea that countries within the EU have no control of immigration is a lie. We do, but we choose not to exercise it. Tony Blair removed the border exit checks you see in almost every other European country in 1998. That meant we had no way of knowing who was still in the UK and who had left. Under existing rules, EU member states can send EU nationals home after three months if they haven’t found a job or cannot support themselves. We could enforce that, keeping only those actively contributing to our economy. Theresa May, as home secretary, chose not to.


J is for Johnson. Where to begin? At the beginning perhaps. When Boris the great charlatan first flipped to the Leave side: “There will continue to be free trade and access to the single market” – Boris Johnson, the Telegraph, 26 June 2016

K is for Knucklehead, AKA David Davis. Davis came close to contempt proceedings for the blasé way he bluffed and blagged his way through time as Brexit secretary. Notably he assured parliament that his department was creating detailed impact assessments of Brexit’s effect on the British economy. He later confessed to a select committee that this was untrue and in fact no impact assessments had been made. It all lent weight to Vote Leave organiser Dominic Cummings assessment of DD: “Thick as mince, lazy as a toad and vain as Narcissus.”

L is for Lord Digby Jones. “Not a single job would be lost because of Brexit,” the ex-CBI boss and former lawyer told us before the referendum. Two years later, he was standing by it, falling back on the semantic difference between “Brexit” and “uncertainty around Brexit”. Either way, thousands of jobs have already been repatriated to the continent and government impact assessments forecast a 9.3 per cent hit to the economy under No Deal.


M is for May. Only Donald Trump tops Mrs May’s comfort with leadership in our post-truth age. The central, unforgivable lie she propagates is that she’s acting in the national interest in delivering “The Will Of The People” when she is, in fact, the first British PM in our history to knowingly pursue a policy that will damage the nation. Brexit has already cost two per cent in lost predicted growth and each household is £900 poorer than it would have been had the UK voted to remain in the EU, according to the Bank Of England. “Nobody voted to be poorer,” eh? Oh, yes they did. They just didn’t know it at the time.

N is for NHS. “Once we have settled our accounts, we will take back control of roughly £350 million per week. It would be a fine thing, as many of us have pointed out, if a lot of that money went on the NHS.” So wrote Boris Johnson in the Daily Telegraph. Then they plastered it in massive letters across a bus and drove it across the country. The rest is history.

O is for Opportunities. Vote Leave statement two weeks before the Referendum: “After we vote Leave, we would immediately be able to start negotiating new trade deals with emerging economies and the world’s biggest economies (the US, China and Japan, as well as Canada, Australia, South Korea, New Zealand and so on), which could enter into force immediately after the UK leaves the EU.” Japan recently concluded one of the world’s biggest trade agreements with... the EU. As for us, we’re still waiting.


P. There is no P. The politicians took it.

Q is for Queues. Not for food, yet, but for lorries. Hapless transport secretary Chris Grayling told Question Time in March last year: ”We will maintain a free flowing border at Dover. We will not impose checks in the port. The only reason we would have queues at the border is if we put in place restrictions that created those queues. We are not going to do that.” It’s a lie. The FT reported that lorry checks under a No Deal taking as little as 80 seconds would result in an “unrecoverable” backlog of lorries and the government itself is planning to turn the M20 into a lorry park.

R is for Rees-Mogg. Again, no shortage here. But perhaps the one that fully demonstrates Rees-Mogg’s capacity for manipulative, cynical lying was when he conspired with Steve Baker to accuse, from the floor of the commons, the civil service of trying to scupper Brexit. Baker later apologised. Rees-Mogg, characteristically, has never done so.

S is for the Single Market. “Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market,” said Daniel Hannan, Brexiteer MEP, before the referendum. Absolutely everybody is now.


T is for Take Back Control. The greatest lie of them all? Quite possibly. The hypnotic mantra was perfect for its audience: millions who – quite rightly – felt disenfranchised and anxious for their future. But lack of control over the EU wasn’t the issue; it was lack of control over a Westminster programme of austerity set by George Osborne.

U is for the Union. “If we vote to leave then I think the union will be stronger… I think when we vote to leave it will be clear that having voted to leave one union the last thing people in Scotland wanted to do is to break up another.” Michael Gove, BBC, 8 May 2016.

V is for Vote Leave. Otherwise known as Lie Central, the official campaign body for exiting the EU delivered a wonderful array of deceit, including the following:

“The EU’s supporters say, ‘We must have access to the single market’. Britain will have access to the single market after we vote Leave.”

“The idea that our trade will suffer... is silly.”

“Let’s give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week.”

“Taxpayers’ money should be spent on filling in potholes in Britain, rather than being squandered on foreign bridges.”


“If you are still wondering what it will look like if we came out, think about this... Lower taxes as a result of no longer having to pay into the EU budget.”

It really is an endless and unmitigated litany of rubbish.

W is for Will Of The People. It’s not now, and it’s debatable if it ever was. Latest polling suggests 45 per cent of people now want to Remain, versus 35 per cent who want to Leave and 22 per cent undecided. Even in the referendum itself, only 37 per cent of the electorate voted for Leave, the rest either voted Remain or not at all. Some Will Of The People.

X is for Xenophobia. In 2014, Nigel Farage laid it out on the line: “If you said to me, would I like to see over the next ten years a further five million people come into Britain and if that happened we’d all be slightly richer, I’d say I’d rather we weren’t slightly richer.” In March 2017: “If Brexit is a disaster, I will go and live abroad. I'll go and live somewhere else.” Such principles!

Y is for Youth Vote. More than 70 per cent of 18-24 year olds (the generation who will live with Brexit longer than any other) voted to Remain. By the time 29 March comes and we leave the EU, around 1.4m more young people will be of voting age. The idea that Brexit is the will of these people is a dangerous lie.


Z is for Zombie Government. Theresa May leads a government trapped between two warring factions; one side, the hard-Brexiteers, led by Jacob Rees-Mogg and on the other side the sane. Any pretence that the government is in control of the Brexit process is long dead. Meanwhile, all the domestic failings centred around George Osborne’s eight years of austerity – the failings that in large part caused Brexit in the first place – continue to drift, unaddressed. Whatever solution to Brexit we arrive at, it’s this that will be its legacy. A country more divided, fractious and disappointed than ever before in our history.
Click to expand...
For someone who admits to no interest or understanding of politics you should know to keep well clear. You have now come off the fence be prepared to hide if you can find a hiding place;)
 
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ellandback said:
Nope, I actually don't have a clue about politics. I don't understand a word of it.

All I know is that when we had the referendum, both sides lied to us to such a degree that it should be void.
Click to expand...
Every campaign includes false truths. A perfect example is the 2017 election. Labour were so far behind in the polls that they had little chance of anything so they had a plan.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39933116

How much could they have actually delivered or maybe, just maybe, they were trying to buy votes?

I have never spoken to anyone, leave or remain whose vote was influenced by the campaign.

I know that my first ever vote was for UKIP in 2010. Prior to that my vote was meaningless. Whether we had a Labour or Conservative MP, Council or Government was irrelevant to me. Labour didn't speak to me because I had a job and wasn't in a Union and I didn't earn enough to interest the Tories so I was one of the forgotten millions.
When the Champagne Socialists took over some time around the turn of the century it did begin to affect me.
It has been getting steadily worse.
My energy and fuel bills have rocketed because, apparently, we're killing the planet.
My diesel car is the work of the devil.
I'm not allowed to put my shopping in a carrier bag!
Lately everyone is obsessed with gluten free this and vegan that because meat is murder.
The young now know more than us older people, OK they have always thought that but now I have to listen to some snotty little 16 year old telling me what a horrible person I am!
It's getting ridiculous.
Leave me the fk alone!
 
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You could live and work in Europe before Schengen. I had many holidays in Europe as a kid. I just had to show my passport as I do now. British builders rebuilt Germany. - Not as a right and you would have needed a work permit. Post the 50's most countries you didn't need a visa but you would need to go through custom controls and travelling by car was a lot more difficult and you had limits on the amount of currency you could take.


The EU can still have an influence in the world whether we're a member or not. I've no idea where you got the information about Putin but it sounds very much like propaganda. The nasty Russkis want to kill us all! - the Russians were hit by the EU sanctions https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...37-as-sanctions-and-low-oil-price-take-effect and https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...tter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/


How have we used the EU? https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...it-killed-britain-s-brilliant-global-strategy


Talking about trade deals, I'm interested in getting deals that are good for the UK. I'm not interested in getting a trade deal that suits Germany or France at our expense. If you think we have any influence in the EU then you are naive. Germany and France run the EU. You do not understand the EU and not have followed what actually happens in Brussels pre Brexit if you think that https://www.theguardian.com/comment...gotiating-table-influence-britain-uk-brussels


I've heard the war rubbish before. Japan haven't had a war for quite some time and they're not in the EU. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41275614
Do you honestly believe that the EU has prevented wars, or do you think it may be that we've evolved past wanting to kill each other? Judging by the Falklands and Afghanistan and Iraq I and II it seems we haven't evolved past the wanting to kill each other but thanks to the EU we have at least reduced the amount of people we want to kill (though seemingly not everyone has
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That is basically saying that if we leave they're going to kill each other. Ridiculous.


Workers rights, regulations and standards are things that I want my government to do. If I don't like what they are doing and enough people agree with me, we can vote them out. Workers rights, regulations and standards are things I want and I
My EU vote is diluted 10 fold. I may not like it but if Germany does then tough. - We have a veto.


The EU won't solve anything in this country. We have a government to do that and I don't want to give that away. - The EU has already done a lot in this county but yes there are massive issues in the UK that have been happily scapegoated to the EU but won't change because the government could have changed them and improved them long ago and didn't - nothing to do with the EU.

Much more importantly, are you happy with hard remain?

Accept the ECJ - yep
Defer power to Brussels - on certain matter yes.
Accept the Euro - nope - it would require greater political integration before I'd consider it passing the no taxation without representation threshold.
Become a State on the edge of the US of Europe. - I have no issue with that.
Become European instead of British - I have more confidence in my national identity than you obviously do. Despite being a member of England for about 1000 years I still consider myself a Yorkshire man before considering myself English. I believe in greater integration at a national level but with more devolution to local levels (both in terms of Europe and local government).

If you don't like any one, and more, of these then are you truly willing to go all in.
This is the plan you want to sign up for and I want no part of it.


And again in case you missed I'll post this;

I can give you tangible personal day to day experiences of where being a member of the EU has benefited my life.

What tangible personal benefits do you think leaving the EU will bring?
 
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dbc said:
You could live and work in Europe before Schengen. I had many holidays in Europe as a kid. I just had to show my passport as I do now. British builders rebuilt Germany. - Not as a right and you would have needed a work permit. Post the 50's most countries you didn't need a visa but you would need to go through custom controls and travelling by car was a lot more difficult and you had limits on the amount of currency you could take.
The EU can still have an influence in the world whether we're a member or not. I've no idea where you got the information about Putin but it sounds very much like propaganda. The nasty Russkis want to kill us all! - the Russians were hit by the EU sanctions https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...37-as-sanctions-and-low-oil-price-take-effect and https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...tter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/
How have we used the EU? https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...it-killed-britain-s-brilliant-global-strategy
Talking about trade deals, I'm interested in getting deals that are good for the UK. I'm not interested in getting a trade deal that suits Germany or France at our expense. If you think we have any influence in the EU then you are naive. Germany and France run the EU. You do not understand the EU and not have followed what actually happens in Brussels pre Brexit if you think that https://www.theguardian.com/comment...gotiating-table-influence-britain-uk-brussels
I've heard the war rubbish before. Japan haven't had a war for quite some time and they're not in the EU. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41275614
Do you honestly believe that the EU has prevented wars, or do you think it may be that we've evolved past wanting to kill each other? Judging by the Falklands and Afghanistan and Iraq I and II it seems we haven't evolved past the wanting to kill each other but thanks to the EU we have at least reduced the amount of people we want to kill (though seemingly not everyone has
You must log in or register to see media
)
That is basically saying that if we leave they're going to kill each other. Ridiculous.
Workers rights, regulations and standards are things that I want my government to do. If I don't like what they are doing and enough people agree with me, we can vote them out. Workers rights, regulations and standards are things I want and I
My EU vote is diluted 10 fold. I may not like it but if Germany does then tough. - We have a veto.
The EU won't solve anything in this country. We have a government to do that and I don't want to give that away. The EU has already done a lot in this county but yes there are massive issues in the UK that have been happily scapegoated to the EU but won't change because the government could have changed them and improved them long ago and didn't - nothing to do with the EU.

Much more importantly, are you happy with hard remain?

Accept the ECJ - yep
Defer power to Brussels - on certain matter yes.
Accept the Euro - nope - it would require greater political integration before I'd consider it passing the no taxation without representation threshold.
Become a State on the edge of the US of Europe. - I have no issue with that.
Become European instead of British - I have more confidence in my national identity than you obviously do. Despite being a member of England for about 1000 years I still consider myself a Yorkshire man before considering myself English. I believe in greater integration at a national level but with more devolution to local levels (both in terms of Europe and local government).

If you don't like any one, and more, of these then are you truly willing to go all in.
This is the plan you want to sign up for and I want no part of it.


And again in case you missed I'll post this;

I can give you tangible personal day to day experiences of where being a member of the EU has benefited my life.

What tangible personal benefits do you think leaving the EU will bring?
Click to expand...
And yet again you showed us no benefits at all
 
Please list your EU benefits I/we await with baited breath. No response mean there isn't any
 
Krusty sounds like the perfect word to describe dbc, 20/20 and the other undemocratic remoaners:

Krusty
A word for a completely annoying person whom nobody likes but won't leave people alone. A person who seems to radiate a strong desire of hate towards them.
Other Qualities:
* Barges into conversations
* Invites self to parties/events
* Sometimes walks like a duck
* Steals Food Without Asking
* Generally Skanky Behaviour
* Gets fisted a lot

<laugh>
 
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2 pennth said:
Please list your EU benefits I/we await with baited breath. No response mean there isn't any
Click to expand...

Beyond the ones already listed - travel around Europe is cheaper, I don't need travel insurance or my travel insurance is cheaper due to reciprocal health care. I receive compensation on delayed flights due to being in the EU. No roaming charges whilst in the EU.

Food is cheaper and there's greater variance due to the single market.

I am guaranteed paid holiday thanks to the EU.

These are just some basic day to day tangible benefits before you get on to the bigger picture stuff.

So back at you brexiteers - day to day tangible benefits once we leave?
 
dbc said:
Beyond the ones already listed - travel around Europe is cheaper, I don't need travel insurance or my travel insurance is cheaper due to reciprocal health care. I receive compensation on delayed flights due to being in the EU. No roaming charges whilst in the EU.

Food is cheaper and there's greater variance due to the single market.

I am guaranteed paid holiday thanks to the EU.
Click to expand...

So you can travel around Europe cheaper, don't need travel insurance, get compensation for delayed flights and avoid roaming charges. A better choice of vegetables and guaranteed holiday pay........<laugh>

**** me with a baguette, I really don't know how we'll suvive when we come out. <doh>
 
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dbc said:
You could live and work in Europe before Schengen. I had many holidays in Europe as a kid. I just had to show my passport as I do now. British builders rebuilt Germany. - Not as a right and you would have needed a work permit. Post the 50's most countries you didn't need a visa but you would need to go through custom controls and travelling by car was a lot more difficult and you had limits on the amount of currency you could take.
The EU can still have an influence in the world whether we're a member or not. I've no idea where you got the information about Putin but it sounds very much like propaganda. The nasty Russkis want to kill us all! - the Russians were hit by the EU sanctions https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...37-as-sanctions-and-low-oil-price-take-effect and https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...tter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/
How have we used the EU? https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...it-killed-britain-s-brilliant-global-strategy
Talking about trade deals, I'm interested in getting deals that are good for the UK. I'm not interested in getting a trade deal that suits Germany or France at our expense. If you think we have any influence in the EU then you are naive. Germany and France run the EU. You do not understand the EU and not have followed what actually happens in Brussels pre Brexit if you think that https://www.theguardian.com/comment...gotiating-table-influence-britain-uk-brussels
I've heard the war rubbish before. Japan haven't had a war for quite some time and they're not in the EU. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41275614
Do you honestly believe that the EU has prevented wars, or do you think it may be that we've evolved past wanting to kill each other? Judging by the Falklands and Afghanistan and Iraq I and II it seems we haven't evolved past the wanting to kill each other but thanks to the EU we have at least reduced the amount of people we want to kill (though seemingly not everyone has
You must log in or register to see media
)
That is basically saying that if we leave they're going to kill each other. Ridiculous.
Workers rights, regulations and standards are things that I want my government to do. If I don't like what they are doing and enough people agree with me, we can vote them out. Workers rights, regulations and standards are things I want and I
My EU vote is diluted 10 fold. I may not like it but if Germany does then tough. - We have a veto.
The EU won't solve anything in this country. We have a government to do that and I don't want to give that away. The EU has already done a lot in this county but yes there are massive issues in the UK that have been happily scapegoated to the EU but won't change because the government could have changed them and improved them long ago and didn't - nothing to do with the EU.

Much more importantly, are you happy with hard remain?

Accept the ECJ - yep
Defer power to Brussels - on certain matter yes.
Accept the Euro - nope - it would require greater political integration before I'd consider it passing the no taxation without representation threshold.
Become a State on the edge of the US of Europe. - I have no issue with that.
Become European instead of British - I have more confidence in my national identity than you obviously do. Despite being a member of England for about 1000 years I still consider myself a Yorkshire man before considering myself English. I believe in greater integration at a national level but with more devolution to local levels (both in terms of Europe and local government).

If you don't like any one, and more, of these then are you truly willing to go all in.
This is the plan you want to sign up for and I want no part of it.


And again in case you missed I'll post this;

I can give you tangible personal day to day experiences of where being a member of the EU has benefited my life.

What tangible personal benefits do you think leaving the EU will bring?
Click to expand...

Brits and other Europeans were guest workers in Germany, Gastarbeiter. No visa needed.

The West imposed sanctions on Russia not the EU and you link an article where Iranian and Russian sources sent millions of tweets out on the day of the referendum. How do you link this to Putin?

The Bloomberg article is someone's opinion on what he or she sees and there are too many holes in it to go through. I will if you want me to.

The Guardian has an agenda. You must know that? Linking a Guardian article as proof of anything is like me saying a bloke down the pub told me so it must be true.

North Korea fired a missile over Japan so Japan said they wouldn't tolerate it. Please!

An aggressive nation invaded one of our colonies so we went to their assistance. I have mates who were there and I am humbled by what they did for all of us. Argentina were the warmongers and we reacted.
Afghanistan and Iraq were illegal wars we were dragged in to by the Americans.
Neither had anything to do with the EU.

The veto will not last because it can't work so it will evolve into majority rule. You must know this?

https://acton.org/publications/transatlantic/2019/09/16/only-eu-empire-can-secure-liberty-eu-leader

I know Juncker objected to his words but he's going and his replacement doesn't.

You blame the government. OK, vote them out, that is how democracy works. Whether there is a Labour or Tory government I get on with it because they've been elected.

If we don't leave now we never will so you need to accept it all, lock, stock and barrel because they have a project and at some point they will say that you must accept it all.
This may be 10, 20 or even 30 years away but at some point it will happen. In fact with the new EU president incoming I think it will be sooner.

You can't say you want to remain as we were but no more.

To make it simple. I want to leave because we aren't doing very well compared to the rest of the world. Neither are Germany or France or the European Union for that matter.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ny.gdp.mktp.kd.zg?most_recent_value_desc=true

Sort by most recent figures and scroll down, quite a long, long way. We're just below Germany and France. A very long way down.

Oh, and our trade with the EU had a very slight upturn in 2017 but has been falling consistently.

You may be doing OK but an awful lot of people aren't.

I'm British. British is the only tag I need.

I didn't see the problem with having a Common Market. What was wrong with that?
 
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dbc said:
Beyond the ones already listed - travel around Europe is cheaper, I don't need travel insurance or my travel insurance is cheaper due to reciprocal health care. I receive compensation on delayed flights due to being in the EU. No roaming charges whilst in the EU.

Food is cheaper and there's greater variance due to the single market.

I am guaranteed paid holiday thanks to the EU.

These are just some basic day to day tangible benefits before you get on to the bigger picture stuff.

So back at you brexiteers - day to day tangible benefits once we leave?
Click to expand...
Massive assumptions on your part that these benefits would not be available if we were not in the EU.
The world moves on remember.

P.S.
Personally I am not interested in strawberries from Spain in December bring back the proper seasons for produce it tastes alot better.
Only speaking personally but I left school nearly 60 years ago and got holiday pay in my first job and have ever since nothing to do with the EU
 
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