Match Day Thread Old match threads

[saintanton]

As I said before, I love a late winner.

With regard to Burnley, that's got to be the most defensive display I can remember seeing and I've seen a few. To play like that at home shows a complete lack of ambition. All the 'unlucky' shouts I've read (not on here) are mind boggling. They offered absolutely nothing. When we learn how to score against a 10 man block, we'll be unstoppable.

I remember a game early in Klopp's reign against Burnley where the stats where remarkably similar to yesterday.
I'm not really a statto, but that game sticks in my memory because we had 81% possession (same as yesterday) but managed to lose 2-0. I think Sean Dyche was their manager at the time.
It always serves as a reminder that stats are meaningless - apart from the scoreline.
At least we managed the win yesterday.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I remember a game early in Klopp's reign against Burnley where the stats where remarkably similar to yesterday.
I'm not really a statto, but that game sticks in my memory because we had 81% possession (same as yesterday) but managed to lose 2-0. I think Sean Dyche was their manager at the time.
It always serves as a reminder that stats are meaningless - apart from the scoreline.
At least we managed the win yesterday.

I think i remember, was it at anfield and probably 0-2 with a very late goal as we chased and chased?

Conceding a breakaway goal To these 10% merchants always makes it tough.

The stats yesterday bore no relation to reality therefore they are not statistics, you couldn't draw much inference to the game or population as a whoelle from them.

The possession stat is factual. If you look at it you'd assume lfc.must be camped in thr brmurnely half. So far enough.

However xg was rubbish. Shots was rubbish. They were not worth looking at.

The thing is burnely can get away with that for a good while as the paying public for them are burnely fans and right now they dont care how bad it is.

They just want to survive.

Compare and contracts to Southampton fans being depressed day 2 they were promoted knowing Martin would get them relegated and hammered every week.

Stoke were a prime example under pulis. Great crowd at home singing away , watching turgid rubbish.

It can go on for a good while but most get sick and tired of it after a while.

Burnely have got up playing to score 1 and not concede. They will fight to stay up doing the same. The fans were giving it large aping forest fans at times.

They will get bored of it.

 

[saintanton]

I think i remember, was it at anfield and probably 0-2 with a very late goal as we chased and chased?

Conceding a breakaway goal To these 10% merchants always makes it tough.

The stats yesterday bore no relation to reality therefore they are not statistics, you couldn't draw much inference to the game or population as a whoelle from them.

The possession stat is factual. If you look at it you'd assume lfc.must be camped in thr brmurnely half. So far enough.

However xg was rubbish. Shots was rubbish. They were not worth looking at.

The thing is burnely can get away with that for a good while as the paying public for them are burnely fans and right now they dont care how bad it is.

They just want to survive.

Compare and contracts to Southampton fans being depressed day 2 they were promoted knowing Martin would get them relegated and hammered every week.

Stoke were a prime example under pulis. Great crowd at home singing away , watching turgid rubbish.

It can go on for a good while but most get sick and tired of it after a while.

Burnely have got up playing to score 1 and not concede. They will fight to stay up doing the same. The fans were giving it large aping forest fans at times.

They will get bored of it.

Looked it up.

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[Solid Air]

26 shots , none on target

 

[Germlands Nozzer]

Looked it up.

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How did Burnley have no shots on target when they scored twice? (Neither were own goals.)

 

[saintanton]

How did Burnley have no shots on target when they scored twice? (Neither were own goals.)

****nose.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Those stats from 2016 look spookily similar to yesterday's. As pointed out though, they aren't completely correct. I just read the match report which stated that Heaton's best save was from a Firmino long range shot, so our 0 shots on target is wrong too. Other similarities are - it was a game early in the season (August) and Burnley were newly promoted. I don't remember the specifics of the game, maybe I didn't watch it, so my remembrance of yesterday's game being the most defensive I've seen, still stands.

Our defensive errors came from Moreno and Clyne.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Gee calm down mate.

Throwing insults isn't debate unless you add a smiley.

I called gravenberch a rolls Royce day 1 for example. I didn't need 12 months to see his talent and I dont need 12 months to see the good and bad in wirtz.

Whatever this system of bait and switch slot wants is the other players have so far failed to ever find wirtz in the spaces Ekitike is trying to create.

It might work against teams with bigger gaps between the lines but its not going to work against Burnley as they've been instructed to hold the line and not move.

You want a 10 playing one touch there and playing the ball round the corner or trying to find runs rather than simply being ahead of the ball.

They need to sort that stuff out and see on a game by game or better yet scenario by scenario basis.

If we score early yesterday maybe more room opens up for Ekitike to drop deep and draw a cb out. But at 0-0 you have to break them down and you wont do that as a 10 ahead of the ball.

Loads of running about. Loads of work done. Zero to show for it in 4 games so far.

Massive effort by wirtz, no question but you also want to see his intelligence.

Day 1 you could tell gravenberch was a pure technician and glides along

I'll readily admit that I thought Gravenberch at no6 was lunacy. I thought we were playing a no10, or 8 at best, in the wrong poisition. But that's because I thought a No. 6 was someone like the Caiceo we missed out on, Rice, or the Fab we once had. He was terrific again yesterday, as was Szobbo, but, tbf, he had absolutely no defending to do apart from about three breakaways in the whole game.

As for Wirtz, I still think he and Macca are getting in each other's way at times, but I see him as another Coutinho, and he will come good.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

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[Ivan Dobsky]

Controversial statement.

Wirtz in danger rof being the German Harvey Elliott.

Obviously he's not a cowardly little **** but seriously folks wirtz doesn't have the pace nor the physical attributes but he does run about a lot.

He's not getting involved on the ball half enough but for me theres a deliberate slot ask at play there.

Harvey's problem was he acted like getting a touch was more important than doing something positive. A back pass was him getting his touch.

Wirtz seems to be running beyond Ekitike and working hard but having precious little real impact.

Hopefully against atletico he might have a much bigger impact but we will see.

100mil to replace a 35mil player isn't great business. We have to be spending 100mil to get a world class 10, and it looks like it'll take some time to work out.

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[johnsonsbaby]

Tbf Wirtz has nearly scored twice now with powerful low shots which obviously doesn't get you any points but it shows that he knows which positions to take up. Keep it up and one will eventually go in and then another and another.

He's still getting used to the physicality of the league and where he fits in to the team. As already noted, he's getting in Macallister's way but it will sort itself out the more games they play.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I'll readily admit that I thought Gravenberch at no6 was lunacy. I thought we were playing a no10, or 8 at best, in the wrong poisition. But that's because I thought a No. 6 was someone like the Caiceo we missed out on, Rice, or the Fab we once had. He was terrific again yesterday, as was Szobbo, but, tbf, he had absolutely no defending to do apart from about three breakaways in the whole game.

As for Wirtz, I still think he and Macca are getting in each other's way at times, but I see him as another Coutinho, and he will come good.

Gravenberch is a Dutch total football exponent. He glides.

It's kind of like windypops except gravemberch can do more than turn around 5 times before laying it off 5 yards.

Seriously though wijnaldum was lw or 10 for newcastle. We put him at deep lcm so henderson and salah could be high up and he never had an issue defensively.

Gravenberch is reading the game rather than destroying it. He is that good as seeing the positions he can affect the paly positively as well as defensively.

It is an awesome success for us. Just needed games, as does Elliott and frankly as does Jones.

Gravenberch has a manager that will not drop him so he's just going to be sharp and brilliant.

Elliott had to move to find it. I hope he can improve.

Wirtz has a man that will play him but he needs to find his way and imo in bigger games he will come more into the game as there will be more space as teams actually attack.

Let's break the 4 games down.

Bournemouth. Crazy kind of game and he played 60.
Newcastle- extremely physical game. Enabled by the ref.
Arsenal - neither side wanted to support forwards. No space, he still ran himself into the groud
Burnley 11men back, no space. Was too ahead of the ball for me.

So wirtz has had 3 games in a row there where a creative 10 needs to be on the ball making something happen but as I said originally slot has this idea of Ekitike and him switching so our 10 for past one touch paly is up.agaisnt a big cb.

I hope in europe he can come.alive.he is topping the milage charts so its not for the want of trying so far.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Way too early to be writing anyone off.

I think the thing with Salah as well is we almost underestimated the impact TAA had him on. The passes through and over for Salah, created so much space. The 1/2s.. Salah had 6/7 years of playing in front of one RB and is now adapting to a whole new player behind him, as well as Wirtz and Ekitike alongside him. Salah will come good, he’s too good a player not too, but it’s also not a bad thing that we are winning games where Salah isn’t doing much.

How many times last year where we told, look where you’d be if Salah wasn’t scoring goals etc, just because he was involved in everything. He won’t be around in 12/24 months time and Slot has to find a new way to win games and that transition starts now.

Wirtz, no doubt will come good. Still think he’s getting used to teams closing him down so quickly - comes with territory of being £100m player unfortunately. But he’s not only in a new team and new league but he’s in a team that is also developing with Ekitike, kerkez, Frimpong/bradley all playing different roles to their predecessor and having to get some understanding.

He seems to be wanting to play little 1-2s with Salah and gakpo when they cut inside and couple very nearly came off to create chances. That understanding will come and when Isak is taking attention away from him then feel will open things up more.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Way too early to be writing anyone off.

I think the thing with Salah as well is we almost underestimated the impact TAA had him on. The passes through and over for Salah, created so much space. The 1/2s.. Salah had 6/7 years of playing in front of one RB and is now adapting to a whole new player behind him, as well as Wirtz and Ekitike alongside him. Salah will come good, he’s too good a player not too, but it’s also not a bad thing that we are winning games where Salah isn’t doing much.

How many times last year where we told, look where you’d be if Salah wasn’t scoring goals etc, just because he was involved in everything. He won’t be around in 12/24 months time and Slot has to find a new way to win games and that transition starts now.

Wirtz, no doubt will come good. Still think he’s getting used to teams closing him down so quickly - comes with territory of being £100m player unfortunately. But he’s not only in a new team and new league but he’s in a team that is also developing with Ekitike, kerkez, Frimpong/bradley all playing different roles to their predecessor and having to get some understanding.

He seems to be wanting to play little 1-2s with Salah and gakpo when they cut inside and couple very nearly came off to create chances. That understanding will come and when Isak is taking attention away from him then feel will open things up more.

Some good points there and roughly how I see it. I thought in preseason Wirtz and Ekitike had an almost telepathic understanding and I expected it to grow. I know preseason is all about fitness and not results but you do get a feel for how players will fit Slot's system. All the new players look the real deal. The only exception atm is Kerkez who has been very much hot and cold. He too will find consistency. My only other reservation about him is that I think Robbo still has lots to give. There was a distinct difference when he came on.

 

[The IncREDibles]

The key for me is Frimpong and Kerkez getting games behind them. One has had an injury and the other has made some daft errors. Those two at full pelt will change the dynamics of how we attack.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Some good points there and roughly how I see it. I thought in preseason Wirtz and Ekitike had an almost telepathic understanding and I expected it to grow. I know preseason is all about fitness and not results but you do get a feel for how players will fit Slot's system. All the new players look the real deal. The only exception atm is Kerkez who has been very much hot and cold. He too will find consistency. My only other reservation about him is that I think Robbo still has lots to give. There was a distinct difference when he came on.

Other than the goal v Newcastle, didn’t think kerkez been too bad. Not great, still needs to develop an understanding with gakpo out wide as he’s making a lot more inside runs which is where gakpo likes to go and just congesting things. If makes that inside run needs to get beyond early so he takes player with him beyond the line to free up space. The dive was stupid and hopefully as he was subbed off for that reason (crowd hoping for a 2nd yellow on every foul) he’ll realise not to do it again.

I think Robertson has things to offer and maybe even has an extra fire now having lost his place after 7 years of undisputed number 1. Certainly helps when he comes in as he’s gone alongside vvd Grav and gakpo who were the core of that left hand side last year as well

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Tbf Wirtz has nearly scored twice now with powerful low shots which obviously doesn't get you any points but it shows that he knows which positions to take up. Keep it up and one will eventually go in and then another and another.

He's still getting used to the physicality of the league and where he fits in to the team. As already noted, he's getting in Macallister's way but it will sort itself out the more games they play.

I'd rather he start showing the dribbling and passing ability.

As for othe comments made.

Who said anything about writing anyone off

 

[saintanton]

I said during pre-season I was concerned that there were too many changes for a smooth transition from last season, and clearly that's the case.
However, I was worried that the bedding-in might mean we'd lose too much ground at the start of the season, so I'm chuffed that we're actually still winning despite the fact that players are taking time to settle.
As for Mo, well - he always has periods where he looks ineffective for most of the game, but still manages to pop up with a goal or two.
I'm confident he'll come good before AFCON.
And be pants afterwards.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

I said during pre-season I was concerned that there were too many changes for a smooth transition from last season, and clearly that's the case.
However, I was worried that the bedding-in might mean we'd lose too much ground at the start of the season, so I'm chuffed that were actually still winning despite the fact that players are taking time to settle.
As for Mo, well - he always has periods where he looks ineffective for most of the game, but still manages to pop up with a goal or two.
I'm confident he'll come good before AFCON.
And be pants afterwards.

Maybe this is the year he’s pants pre afcon then brilliant after.

 

[Solid Air]

On Robbo think he will benefit from not playing week in week out
we have to remember how many new players we are trying to integrate into the team all at the same time so link up play etc will not be as fluent as in the past but hopefully will be soon.