O/T - Abortion

[Master Yoda]

As some of you may have become aware of today - or not - Northern Ireland is about to open its first abortion clinic.

In Northern Ireland, there is no law, per say, that allows abortion as exists in the rest of Britain. But - The Infant Life (Preservation) Act 1929 allows abortion when necessary to protect the mother's physical and mental health. That is what this new clinic facilitates.

There is huge debate right now in our wee country about it - the rights and wrongs. The religion; the politics; the morality.

Here's where I stand:

• It should always be the woman's choice.
• This clinic will provide an immensely valuable service to NI.
• It's fine to be against abortion personally - but you shouldn't try to put your views on to other people. You can be anti-abortion and pro-choice at the same time.
• This is a big step for a country as regressive and (apparently) religious as NI towards some form of secularism or even modern societal values.

Oh, and of course...

• It was Suarez's fault.

So... opinions, stories, personal insights? And no talk about a certain Uruguayan's theatrics, for the love of all that's good in this world!

 

[alexb]

Catholic Church 0 - 1 Human Decency (after Extra Time)

You mean Human decency 1 - 0 Medieval Morals

 

[Cantbearsedwithnot606now]

Been raised a catholic myself, there's so much the religion has got wrong. Abortion is tricky, not against it but 24 weeks is a long way into a pregnancy. Babies born that premature can Survive these days.

You can't deny a woman the right to chose what happens to her body, a facility needs to be there to provide safe assistance. Without these clinics a lot of women could be so desperate that they do something stupid to themselves. Just the stage of the pregnancy that needs looking at imo.

 

[Master Yoda]

Been raised a catholic myself, there's so much the religion has got wrong. Abortion is tricky, not against it but 24 weeks is a long way into a pregnancy. Babies born that premature can Survive these days.

You can't deny a woman the right to chose what happens to her body, a facility needs to be there to provide safe assistance. Without these clinics a lot of women could be so desperate that they do something stupid to themselves. Just the stage of the pregnancy that needs looking at imo.

Very good position to take, especially for (I'm assuming) a Catholic.

 

[Foredeckdave]

Hey let's not make this just a Catholic issue. There are plenty of other Christian denominations who also condemn abortion. The Pro-Life movement in the USA is led by non-Catholic Evangelical churches.

For me, the woman should always have the right to decide based upon her physical and mental wellbeing. Like some others, I am uncertain as to where the time limit should be. perhaps about 20 weeks would be about right (apart from exceptional circumstances).

 

[alexb]

I'm as Atheist as you get, but this church has it so right -

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[Noblelox]

Reasons for abortion:
Child will have a poor quality of life due to genetic fault
Mother risks her life carrying the baby
Conception due to rape - carrying child would be mental abuse to woman.

NOT reasons for abortion:
We've split up, I can't raise a child on my own
It was a mistake
I'm not ready
I'm too young
My parents will kill me
I don't know who the father is
It was a one night stand
I'm going to university, I can't do this now

So many childless couples who would love to adopt a new baby. Society need to stop abusing girls who do mess up, making a baby should never be seen as a mistake. A pregnant woman is a magnificent thing, the problem is with society for making so many of them feel it is so bad. Our population is only going up, due to immigration. Our own society is in terminal decline, due to the attitudes in society... You need a job, you need a house, you need a career, no time for a family until it's too late and you have a 30% chance of bringing a child with Downs into the world because you left it until you were 45... The Muslims have it right, and they will take over the whole world in a couple of hundred years, as western society prefers their holidays and careers more than doing the one thing we were actually put on this earth to do.

 

[CCC]

Right wing 'born again's (evangelical xtians) are rife in NI, too. In fact, I think it was that group which forced some Creationist material to be displayed at Giant's Causeway, too.

I long for a time when we can all shed these ancient superstitions and finally face the beauty and starkness of reality like adults. Wishful thinking, however, is cloying and, in the end, people will believe what they want to.

One of my (many) favourite quotes is by Aldous Huxley:

“You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. Dogs do not ritually urinate in the hope of persuading heaven to do the same and send down rain. Asses do not bray a liturgy to cloudless skies. Nor do cats attempt, by abstinence from cat's meat, to wheedle the feline spirits into benevolence. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, quite intelligent enough.”

The quote is not, strictly speaking, accurate in its animal assertions, but the sentiment is spot on, for me.

 

[Master Yoda]

Right wing 'born again's (evangelical xtians) are rife in NI, too. In fact, I think it was that group which forced some Creationist material to be displayed at Giant's Causeway, too.

I long for a time when we can all shed these ancient superstitions and finally face the beauty and starkness of reality like adults. Wishful thinking, however, is cloying and, in the end, people will believe what they want to.

One of my (many) favourite quotes is by Aldous Huxley:

“You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. Dogs do not ritually urinate in the hope of persuading heaven to do the same and send down rain. Asses do not bray a liturgy to cloudless skies. Nor do cats attempt, by abstinence from cat's meat, to wheedle the feline spirits into benevolence. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, quite intelligent enough.”

The quote is, not strictly speaking, accurate in its animal assertions, but the sentiment is spot on, for me.

They did yes.

At least it's there with the legend of Finn McCool.

 

[alexb]

Reasons for abortion:
Child will have a poor quality of life due to genetic fault
Mother risks her life carrying the baby
Conception due to rape - carrying child would be mental abuse to woman.

NOT reasons for abortion:
We've split up, I can't raise a child on my own
It was a mistake
I'm not ready
I'm too young
My parents will kill me
I don't know who the father is
It was a one night stand
I'm going to university, I can't do this now

So many childless couples who would love to adopt a new baby. Society need to stop abusing girls who do mess up, making a baby should never be seen as a mistake. A pregnant woman is a magnificent thing, the problem is with society for making so many of them feel it is so bad. Our population is only going up, due to immigration. Our own society is in terminal decline, due to the attitudes in society... You need a job, you need a house, you need a career, no time for a family until it's too late and you have a 30% chance of bringing a child with Downs into the world because you left it until you were 45... The Muslims have it right, and they will take over the whole world in a couple of hundred years, as western society prefers their holidays and careers more than doing the one thing we were actually put on this earth to do.

Yeah, stone gays to death, kill women for adultery, if a women is raped it's her own fault, all non believers should either convert or be put to death. Yeah ****ing lovely people. You've lost a lot of my respect with that Noblelox

 

[Master Yoda]

Yeah, stone gays to death, kill women for adultery, if a women is raped it's her own fault, all non believers should either convert or be put to death. Yeah ****ing lovely people. You've lost a lot of my respect with that Noblelox

I don't think he means they've literally got it right - I think it was meant in a particular context (children). Goodness knows they've got nearly everything wrong.

 

[alexb]

I don't think he means they've literally got it right - I think it was meant in a particular context (children). Goodness knows they've got nearly everything wrong.

"They will take over the world in a couple of hundred years" Well humanity is well and truly ****ed then if the morals of Muslims are the norm

 

[CCC]

They did yes.

At least it's there with the legend of Finn McCool.

I know which one I'd rather believe.

Freedom of choice is the most important thing here. Abortion allows this and therefore, in that respect, the abortion clinic is a good thing. Religion, and the stricter the religion the more true this is, is the antithesis of choice.

 

[DirtyFrank]

Actually, no disrespect to the OP as it is how it is being advertised on the media but the clinic is the first sexual health clinic to be opened. The abortions are a small part of the work they do.

Maybe if the religious nuts helped the clinic to promote better knowledge to youngsters the abortions wouldn't be necessary or fewer anyway. You know things like condoms and other forms of combined contraception. We may also see a halt to the rise of antibiotic resistant STD's amongst teenagers.

Because the "SINNER" approach to sex outside of marriage hasn't really been effective at any time in the last 2000 yrs has it?

And yeah the Free P's will be frothing at the mouth about this one as much as the RC's

Fecking religion in Northern Ireland. Won't allow a Titty Bar in Belfast and then won't allow you to correct your frustrations when released the old fashioned way

 

[Master Yoda]

Actually, no disrespect to the OP as it is how it is being advertised on the media but the clinic is the first sexual health clinic to be opened. The abortions are a small part of the work they do.

Maybe if the religious nuts helped the clinic to promote better knowledge to youngsters the abortions wouldn't be necessary or fewer anyway. You know things like condoms and other forms of combined contraception. We may also see a halt to the rise of antibiotic resistant STD's amongst teenagers.

Because the "SINNER" approach to sex outside of marriage hasn't really been effective at any time in the last 2000 yrs has it?

And yeah the Free P's will be frothing at the mouth about this one as much as the RC's

Fecking religion in Northern Ireland. Won't allow a Titty Bar in Belfast and then won't allow you to correct your frustrations when released the old fashioned way

I know man, I was just putting it simply for those not versed in our news!

They're all a shower of ****e, hopefully my generation will be more progressive - we've grown up in peace.

 

[DirtyFrank]

As for population in terminal decline, you'll find that Islam is still strongest in countries with large percentages of the population below the poverty line: just like the RC when it was at its height.

The religions may promote abundant children but its a coincidence. its merely a population mechanic in agrarian societies. If you have high infant death rates due to poor medical care & nutrition then you increase the odds of surviving children by having more of them.

We don't; like many western countries (must notably Japan) because of better medical care and population balance as it stands. We don't need as many manual workers to feed the mouths of our country.

Nobelox is right that eventually it will tip into imbalance here at some point but it all depends on how far & fast our medical technology goes ahead of it.

Cloning for instance could make one or most likely the 1% immortal to all intents & purposes. Natural reproduction will cease altogether & the population will be controlled globally based on our ability to produce food. Think Chinese population control without the hammer & spike.

Islam like any religion depends on the majority of its followers to be uneducated & ignorant. Even if it becomes the dominant religion & with it the countries they run dominant in world power it will face the same slow secularising process western Christianity did over the last 1000 years. Well fed, people that don't need to rise with the sun to break their back working have more time on their hands to mull over the inconsistencies of what their priest or Imam is telling them.

 

[DirtyFrank]

Sorry Rev, forgot you were NI Rev before! You all bloody confuse me with this identity change malarkey lol

 

[BringBackfootie]

As said, Woman's decision.

Gotta say though, at a point it is not her body but two bodies and one belongs to someone else. At what stage is this right to abort, for me that is the question.

Life threatening pregnancy obviously a no brainer.

How much development does there need to be to be considered a person is the hard question.

 

[The Ides of March]

Well done guys for having the bollox to discuss such a sensitive issue in an intelligent manner. I agree with most of the comments made here. How about including Euthanasia. I'll start by nominating George Bush, Dick Cheney, Tony Blair, anyone stupid enough to vote for Mitt Romney, anyone who votes Conservative in the UK knowing what those charming b******* inflicted on the country in the 80s (and are continuing to do so today) in general and Liverpool in particular.

 

[alexb]

Well done guys for having the bollox to discuss such a sensitive issue in an intelligent manner. I agree with most of the comments made here. How about including Euthanasia. I'll start by nominating George Bush, Dick Cheney, Tony Blair, anyone stupid enough to vote for Mitt Romney, anyone who votes Conservative in the UK knowing what those charming b******* inflicted on the country in the 80s (and are continuing to do so today) in general and Liverpool in particular.

Can we add Chris Evans to that list?