Numero Uno!
- Thread starter Dier Hard
- Start date
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Hugo by a country mile. Best 'keeper we've had for a long time. It's good to see how Gazza's progressing and I think he should be our number 2 ahead of Vorm but Lloris is different gravy regardless of form.
There is, of course, a very important reason Hugo should be first choice: he's currently played 214 league games for us, so it's vital that he plays a minimum of 42 more games for reasons that are obvious...
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Another reason to vote Lloris. No goalkeeper should do that unless utterly trapped.Hugo can't do cruyff turns Gazza can
Agree, definitely the best we've had for a long time but is he currently the best keeper we've got?
There's no dispute Hugo is up there with the very best we've ever had in-between the sticks but I'd say this is more about looking at the present and future, is a soon to be 32 year old Lloris a better option than a soon to be 27 year old Gazzaniga? It's a tough call but I wouldn't be saying that right now Lloris is different gravy. There's not much in it either way for me, although I do lean towards Gazzaniga at the moment, he's looked great in his appearances, easily has better distribution and long term-wise has more in the tank, Lloris on the other hand has suffered a major dip in form over the past year and a bit and I am beginning to wonder if he will get back to his best or not.
I am impressed by a sensible - and difficult - debate on this issue, clearly demonstrated by the closeness of the figures. I think all the relevant pints have been made on both sides. (I’m presuming that Vorm is a non- starter - in both senses!) my own view is that a job-share would give us the best of both worlds, and provide firm motivation for both players. How about a monthly stint for each - regardless of the number and status of the scheduled games? This would be set out clearly for them both, so at each change-over there ought to be no issues of resentment. It’s never easy to time the switch to an heir-apparent. The Aussies used to do this without hesitation, and the young newcomers would perform accordingly (unfortunately!!!'). My idea would be a more nuanced and sensitive process. So I have to abstain in the vote. Hope you understand.
S
Spur of the Moment
Guest
I see where you are coming from but say whoever is first has 4 amazing games and is bang in form, are we seriously then going to drop them for the next set of games? Would be crazy.
I also think Gazza has been built up way above what he has actually done. Yes he has had a good start but I can't remember anything spectacular that he has done that you could say won us points that no other goalkeeper would have. If he had been in goal v West ham would we have won that game? Would he have been able to make the save that Lloris did where the ball was looping in? I appreciate it's all speculation.
I think Hugo has earn't the clubs loyalty. He could easily have put in a transfer request the last few years but he has been loyal to us so I think unless his form drops off a cliff he keeps the number 1 jersey.
Saying that I am glad we finally have decent competition for the spot.
Agree with the rotation point, you couldn't drop someone if they were in blinding form.
I think the "would Gazza have" points can be flipped around though. Would Hugo have saved us in the penality shootout against Watford like Gazza? Would Hugo have made that save vs Huddersfield that Gazza did? For me it's probably unfair to judge on ifs and maybes because it's impossible to tell. I also wouldn't say Gazza has been built up above his station, 3 MOTM awards in 6 games and a first call up to Argentina would suggest he's fully deserving of the praise/ recognition he's getting.
The loyalty factor is where I feel sentiment plays a part and can sometimes cloud judgement. For me, I'm always of the opinion a player should play based on form, not reputation or previous years of service. For instance take Lucas, would you drop him for Son just because Son's been here longer and done more the club? Likewise with Dembele, would you rather Dembele or Sissoko play in the XI? This is where I currently stand with Hugo and Gazza, Gazza for me has easily been the better keeper this season, he's dealt with what he's had to do nicely and hasn't made any mistakes unlike Hugo. Hugo's form is reminding of Robbo, in which he went from undroppable to causing too many heart in mouth moments, this is why I personally would rather see Gazza given the spot for a prolonged period. It's not an easy decision by any means and there isn't too much in it but I just think perhaps some people are siding with Hugo mainly because of sentimentality moreso than because they actually think he's currently been the better player, could be wrong on that but it's just the impression I'm getting.
You make good points as always DH.
I just think it's too early to judge Gazza properly though. A penalty shoot out is a bit of a lottery. And in the other games I still stand by the fact he has been solid not spectacular.
I feel that MOTM awards tend to get awarded more to players who don't play that often, particularly when the match doesn't really have a stand out player. Like for example when KWP got MOTM against Newcastle. He was good but then Poch dropped him for the next game. And if he really was that good then he would be undroppable (if that's even a word). Maybe that's another example you could use to back up your argument rather than helping mine!
One of the main reasons we are doing so well as a team is because of the loyalty that Pochettino gives to the players and then he gets it back in return. If we dropped all of our best players every time they had a bad patch, how are they supposed to come through the other side? Your best players are still your best players, form is temporary and class is permanent and all that. I stand by the fact that Lloris at 100% is better than anything I have seen from Gazza. Time will tell though as Gazza will have plenty of opportunities over the coming months to prove me wrong.
Likewise, Jack
Yeah I agree in that the first MOTM award for some players can often be down to sentiment of being "the new guy" but I'd argue that getting three in the space of six games this season plus his one from last season against Palace, is probably now beyond the whole "new player charm" factor with Gazza. Our defence hasn't been as strong this season so Hugo and Gazza have had more to deal with than usual and I'd say Gazza has dealt with that a lot better than Hugo, hence why he's probably won mulitple MOTMs.
For sure, Hugo at 100% is better than most keepers on the planet, you'd probably say only Neuer, ter Stegen, Oblak and Buffon are better when he's on the ball. Problem though is that for nearly 18 months he's been nowhere near 100%, not even at 75% I'd say. Second most errors leading to goals in the Prem last season, cost us twice in the Champions League this season and luckily had two unpunished errors in the Prem this season... There's way too many errors creeping into his game and I'm not sure how much longer the club can realistically allow that to happen. For me this is more than just a bad spell of form in my opinion, bad spells tend to last for a few games or few months at worst, a year and a half is now making me wonder if he's just in a decline. It's tough to tell what the best remedy is to get him back to his best but while we've got another keeper who's yet to put a foot wrong, I don't see why we don't utilise him. Perhaps that would give Hugo the kick up the arse he needs to get his head straight?
Lloris is goalkeeper of the season so far according to Sky Sports team of the season
Lloris is goalkeeper of the season so far according to Sky Sports team of the season
I'm basically Kieran Trippier's Dad after the way I defended him last season but he's been below-par this season yet he's also made it, what the **** are these pundits watching?!
Lucas and Lamela also miss out
I'm basically Kieran Trippier's Dad after the way I defended him last season but he's been below-par this season yet he's also made it, what the **** are these pundits watching?!
Lucas and Lamela also miss out
Yeah the whole selection is odd isn’t it.
"Second most errors leading to goals in the Prem last season, cost us twice in the Champions League this season and luckily had two unpunished errors in the Prem this season.."@Dier Hard
Where do these figures come from?
Where do these figures come from?
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal
Filter year and position as accordingly
The rush out that left an open goal for Barca's first.
The sending off vs PSV.
When Toby saved him with a goal line clearance vs Cardiff.
The flapped corner vs Palace (just like what he done at Stamford Bridge last season where Morata scored).
It’s to do with the power rankings that Lloris is number one in the league not actually pundits choosing their best team. Admittedly stats can be misleading, but the fact that Hugo has the same points as Ederson despite only playing 8 matches says a lot. It says he has kept 4 clean sheets as well and made twice the number of saves. Not exactly bad for a keeper supposedly in decline.
I feel it’s because Hugo has set such high standards that his uncharacteristic errors stand out more.
Give Gazza the League cup games and see if he can carry on putting the pressure on. Right now for me it is still a no brainer that Lloris is number 1.
I feel it’s because Hugo has set such high standards that his uncharacteristic errors stand out more.
Give Gazza the League cup games and see if he can carry on putting the pressure on. Right now for me it is still a no brainer that Lloris is number 1.