no Beards or blacks

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rudebwoy said:
oh here we go -----lazy blacks is it --err many stable lads are asian , long hours low pay.......
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Ah now he didn't say that <laugh>. Anyway, just out of interest, how many stable lads or girls have gone into it with absolutely no background in horses whatsever? I'd be surprised if there were many and that links back to the point about upbrigning as in I would have thought that all equine sports have a stronger link to that than any other.
 
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that was not clear gaz---yes your right , there are many jobs that people seem are below their status--fruit picking,hotel work ,many casual jobs --hence the reliance on those willing to come here and do them --but how dare they have the temerity to live here while doing so!!!
 
This is now descending into a political thing due to your misinterpretation of what I said! Im not gona get involved!
 
Dan Starkey said:
Ah now he didn't say that <laugh>. Anyway, just out of interest, how many stable lads or girls have gone into it with absolutely no background in horses whatsever? I'd be surprised if there were many and that links back to the point about upbrigning as in I would have thought that all equine sports have a stronger link to that than any other.
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chris catlin the jockey from barnet had no connections at all with racing ---he started at ken ivory's yard up the road in radlett, progressed into stable jock ,and is now a top rider .....royston ffrench from telford also has no connection apart from his dad's gambling <laugh>........there must be many more....
 
It's mainly to do with genetics, your average back guy tends to be bigger built than your average white guy. So because very few have the genetics to be jockeys, it's not a popular sport among black communities.

It was like that in Formula 1 for years, until Lewis Hamilton came along, so maybe a top black jockey will come along soon. But I don't think it will ever be the norm to have lots of black jockeys. The same as I don't think there will ever be lots of black F1 drivers.

Just like we'll never get a 100m final with 6 white guys in it, nor will a team of mainly white guys win the NBA.

Genetics play a huge role in sport, they probably play the biggest role, so it's only normal that different races will posses different qualities that will make them good or bad at different sports. I don't think it's a case of there being any sort of racism in horse racing.
 
your saying there are few small black people ? plenty seem to ride in the usa -- no i think its a multi layered cultural/class/opportunity/ situation --racism takes aback seat , but still exists.....in all walks of life by the way....
 
Back to the beards, I was listening to William Hill radio the other day and they had James Millman on, and he was talking about this very thing. He was stating that it was a cultural thing within racing that beards were often seen as unprofessional (I think more in terms of appeared lazyness etc) and that it was almost a bit of jockey code that they needed to be clean shaven and well turned out. I think this is very similar to other things in racing, whereby it is run by people who hold different views to the general public, and the sport can look very twee.

I also think this is the reason that we don't have massive numbers of people from varying demographics working as professionals within the sport, both as jockeys and trainers. The fact that people like Rebecca Curtis and Sue Smith are doing so well is because of their respective other halves reputation within the sport.

It is very much a sport of relation and opportunity, you can see this in the story of Lizzie Kelly, who answered the question "how do girls get into racing?" with the answer "you just need to buy a pony and ride it and improve". How many people from other demographics can afford that luxury? Lewis Hamilton is a prime example, given the support of his dad from a very young age, he has proven that he is top of the world in F1, but how many children from Chesterfield, Trowbridge or central London get those opportunities.
 
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rudebwoy said:
your saying there are few small black people ? plenty seem to ride in the usa -- no i think its a multi layered cultural/class/opportunity/ situation --racism takes aback seat , but still exists.....in all walks of life by the way....
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I'm not saying racism doesn't still go on but I think it's a card that is very often overplayed. Youve got Floyd Mayweather last week claiming he's been a victim of racism in boxing because he's unpopular. It clearly has nothing to do with the fact he's a wife beating cheat, it's all because he's black apparently.

There are people who are racist out there, but I think your talking about small minorities of people, I don't think we are talking about large parts of society. Most people who have strong racist views are generally lacking in intelligence, and at the bottom of society anyways.

Whilst I agree that class does play a role in racing, largely because of the money it costs to ride a horse, I do think genetics does also play a role. I can honestly say I've never met a black man who looked 8 stone. Even the short ones I've worked with have all been fairly muscular looking.
 
What some people seem to dismiss is the form of 'reverse' racialism which is quite apparent nowadays, e.g. what the likes of Rio Ferdinand, Richard Williams (father of the tennis duo), etc., practice. These people get really nasty sometimes, and often without real cause.

Should not bring levity into this, but can't help it. One old wives' tale when I was very young was, when we kids asked innocently why were there no black swimmers around, we were told that "because of their body density they sink straight to the bottom". Thank goodness, since those days have seen quite a few black swimmers who perform very well in top-level swimming events.
 
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Why dont people accept you get where you get on merit and ability not because someone wants statistics to balance!

I dont complain racing is bent because I cant back winners, I dont put the time and effort in many on here do hence statistically my tips are rank!

You have 450 professional jockeys in the UK thats a tiny amount of jobs. These people WANT to be there, sure many come from within racing thats an obvious benefit.
For example Gary Moore has 3 professional jockey sons but you dont hear him complain he wanted a 6 ft 11in basketball playing son!

Its the same as women in the boardroom, men have run business now women feel the need to work and suggest they are entitled to an equal
share of top tier jobs!

There you go Rude theres a wee political bit for you to get your teeth into!
 
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What a shame I missed this heated debate as it happened; however, it does make interesting reading...

I am going to start by saying that the original question raised by rudebwoy did appear to relate to racing here, so I will stick to that. There may well be lots of jockeys from ethnic minorities in the USA but I have no experience of that and I have only been racing in three countries.

Let us start with the obvious statistics. We refer to coloured people as the ethnic minorities and they are a minority of the population (UK 2011 census says 11 per cent non-white). Whilst we consider them to be more integrated into our society than their ethnic counterparts in France, they do nonetheless tend to live in ethnic communities, insulated from traditional indigenous pursuits like riding. I am sure we can all name a couple of Chinatowns in Britain, for example. I know the Chinese like a gamble as I have seen them in the massive grandstand at Happy Valley in Hong Kong but I do not think that many top jockeys are born to gamblers.

It is perfectly reasonable to point out that the average black person is going to struggle to meet the physical requirements of a jockey. As King Shergar stated “we'll never get a 100m final with 6 white guys in it” because centuries of sedentary lifestyle has bred most of the physical speed out of the old world white man.

Look at how few jockeys get fabulously wealthy from their career compared to footballers. If you are a young ethnic, you can play football in the street or the park with your friends but horse riding needs a little more equipment. It is also a sport that we can see has historically been dominated by nepotism. At the moment we have a couple of top Walsh family members in the saddle and a conveyor belt of different Moore riders, the latest generation of the Scudamore dynasty is not doing too shabbily, whilst the exploits of the Eddery and Hills families are not too distant a memory. There is possibly a glass ceiling there that even young white jockeys are having a hard time breaking.
 
Part of the reason why nepotism is so common in racing is probably down to the fact a jockey isn't as important as say a 100m runner is to the outcome of their sport.

A crap jockey can still win plenty of races, as the horse does 90% of the work.

You wouldn't be able to get away with nepotism in most other sports, as you wouldn't get results, but racing you still will aslong as you have good horses.
 
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King Shergar said:
Part of the reason why nepotism is so common in racing is probably down to the fact a jockey isn't as important as say a 100m runner is to the outcome of their sport.

A crap jockey can still win plenty of races, as the horse does 90% of the work.

You wouldn't be able to get away with nepotism in most other sports, as you wouldn't get results, but racing you still will aslong as you have good horses.
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Richard Hills. QED.
 
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