Must read: Usmanov letter - full text.
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For me it depends where he goes. If he goes to other leagues I'll probably mostly have positive memories, as it shows he had some respect for the club and fans.
If he goes to another EPL club, after 8 mostly average years where all of us stood by him? **** no. That would show a remarkable lack of class to me.
If he goes to another EPL club, after 8 mostly average years where all of us stood by him? **** no. That would show a remarkable lack of class to me.
Agreed, i wouldn't like to see him at Man City. If he wants to leave then he can go to Italy, Spain, Germany or France. He has plenty of options to pick from than staying in the Premiership!
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Robin van Bergkamp
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That letter by Mr U sums up what many fans have been saying and that includes the AST. However under the present regime fans and that includes Mr U do not get a say. Mr Gazidis has his grand sustainable model and while you have to keep your eye on the business of running the club, the business of sport has to continue but that is where this board has taken it's eye off the ball. They assume that by investing in bricks and mortar all will be well and further place reliance on FFP rules to support their model. Well that is untried but what has been tried and tested is that wholesale adherence to the policy dictated by Mr Gazidis's grand plan has witnessed the erosion of Arsenal's standing as a sporting club. Every business concern has a main aim. For a club engaged in sports, that aim is very clear. Not in our case and not because it has been muddied by the men in suits. If we follow their lead, they will lead us to nowhere, just like the last 7 years. Oh but wait...... 4th place is a prize!!! How on earth could I have forgotten!!!! 
I have to agree with gent here. RVP's statement doesn't make any sense when we already signed Podolski and Giroud, and Usmanov is just being an opportunist. I doubt very much if a russian oil billionaire really cares more about Arsenal than his own self interest. That said, I dont really want the AST running Arsenal either, because I think the club would be bust is 2 years. Just because they "care" doesn't mean that they can run the club well. Sometimes good management is all about making decisions with your head, and not your heart. We all saw what happenned at Rangers when a club had more ambition than common sense.
I don't see what else the club could have done to convince RVP that they had ambition this transfer window. We are now 5 days into the transfer window. This is about last year and what went on.
I know people will blame the board for RVP going, but RVP's statement basically says that he would not stay at Arsenal for any price, money was not an issue. He is saying he doesn't think that a club can beat Manchester city without matching their spending. Clearly as he doesn't think Podolski and Giroud are good enough, he would not be happy unless we signed Europe's elite.
He may be right. But I hope that Arsenal can win, because any sane person can see that Arsenal football club cannot out-spend the Manchester clubs or Chelsea, and it would be folly to try. We have to win by buying the Podolski/Giroud level of players, and supplimenting them with our own youth system. We also haveto expect that if we do manage to create a superstar, there is nothing we can do to prevent them leaving, and it seems they all (Fabregas aside) don't even have enough class to avoid statements damaging the club that created them.
I hope RVP is wrong, and we can win. But even if he is right, and a player has to join a mega-rich club to win the championship, I would rather we didn't become a mega-rich club. I would rather have one win in 20 years founded on a team that we built with players who play for Arsenal, than 19 trophies based on a bunch of mercenaries that don't care what club they play for.
I don't see what else the club could have done to convince RVP that they had ambition this transfer window. We are now 5 days into the transfer window. This is about last year and what went on.
I know people will blame the board for RVP going, but RVP's statement basically says that he would not stay at Arsenal for any price, money was not an issue. He is saying he doesn't think that a club can beat Manchester city without matching their spending. Clearly as he doesn't think Podolski and Giroud are good enough, he would not be happy unless we signed Europe's elite.
He may be right. But I hope that Arsenal can win, because any sane person can see that Arsenal football club cannot out-spend the Manchester clubs or Chelsea, and it would be folly to try. We have to win by buying the Podolski/Giroud level of players, and supplimenting them with our own youth system. We also haveto expect that if we do manage to create a superstar, there is nothing we can do to prevent them leaving, and it seems they all (Fabregas aside) don't even have enough class to avoid statements damaging the club that created them.
I hope RVP is wrong, and we can win. But even if he is right, and a player has to join a mega-rich club to win the championship, I would rather we didn't become a mega-rich club. I would rather have one win in 20 years founded on a team that we built with players who play for Arsenal, than 19 trophies based on a bunch of mercenaries that don't care what club they play for.
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Robin van Bergkamp
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I think RvP was right in taking the risk to come out what his remarks. The negotiations had been drawn out and someone thankfully has at least had the decency to tell us why they are being held up. He has come out and said it rather than wait for the spin and rumour mill to begin. There is nowhere that bears any indication that he requires the club to engage Europe's elite but he as a number of us can see that the team is not up to the level required to win anything. Last year we were almost wholly reliant on him and while he may have been given support up front, where is the supplement to our midfield, let alone defence. We are all aware of the statistics, the number of goals we have shipped in over the past two years. It is with no certainty that we could foresee an uninterrupted season for the likes of Arteta or Wilshire. If anyone thinks we have a side that is good enough to win on merit I say, be glad. But I cannot see any reason for joy when we scrape by each year and only make it on a wing and prayer that a rival team fails. This ' make do ' style is not the way to success and not what great clubs are about. There are issues to be addressed but they are not being addressed. That is why RvP is not persuaded to extend his contract but as I said if 4th place brings you joy, then be glad.
RVB, I think you are right to an extent and I don't want anyone to think that I am "Happy" that we are not winning something every year.
On the other hand, I just cant see how we can practically keep a player once he has attracted the interest of a Manchester City or a Barcelona. We simply can't afford to pay 220K/week wages. Once you accept that, whatever comments they or anyone at the club makes in relation to it, is just noise. I don't take a lot of interest because they are really just persuing their own agenda.
I am not going to tell you that I think the board or Wenger has always made the right decision, but expecting them to get everything perfectly right, anticipate every possible injury situation, anticipate that Man City really wanted Nasri, anticipate that Barcelona had enough money for Fabregas, etc. is going a bit far for me.
I am a huge Wenger supporter as you know, but in my mind, despite what I said above, he is the one that messed up last season with his pre-season, and then almost redeemed himself by over-achieving with the squad he had. Even with that said, I still can't say that I think replacing the board or Wenger would do any good. I think the situation we are in is not one that is "easily" solved. The PL is not going to be won by signing players, because Man City will always sign "better" players than us.
If Arsenal are going to win, it is because we have the best tactics and training and we take players that are not "better" and make them better somehow. Usmanov is not going to help with that.
We also have to accept that after we have made them better, Man City will buy them off us.
I think RVP is a very lucky man. I don't think Wenger wanted to build Arsenal around him, but that was the only tactic he could come up with to scramble 3rd place. RVP may have scored a lot, but he missed tons too and has a very limited skill-set. Wenger set the whole team in a way that made the absolute most of RVP's ability. I don't think he will get that at any other club, and I don't think he would have been as prominent in the Arsenal team this season.
I don't think Wenger wanted to lose RVP, but I don't think he is crying into his pillow every night over him leaving either.
On the other hand, I just cant see how we can practically keep a player once he has attracted the interest of a Manchester City or a Barcelona. We simply can't afford to pay 220K/week wages. Once you accept that, whatever comments they or anyone at the club makes in relation to it, is just noise. I don't take a lot of interest because they are really just persuing their own agenda.
I am not going to tell you that I think the board or Wenger has always made the right decision, but expecting them to get everything perfectly right, anticipate every possible injury situation, anticipate that Man City really wanted Nasri, anticipate that Barcelona had enough money for Fabregas, etc. is going a bit far for me.
I am a huge Wenger supporter as you know, but in my mind, despite what I said above, he is the one that messed up last season with his pre-season, and then almost redeemed himself by over-achieving with the squad he had. Even with that said, I still can't say that I think replacing the board or Wenger would do any good. I think the situation we are in is not one that is "easily" solved. The PL is not going to be won by signing players, because Man City will always sign "better" players than us.
If Arsenal are going to win, it is because we have the best tactics and training and we take players that are not "better" and make them better somehow. Usmanov is not going to help with that.
We also have to accept that after we have made them better, Man City will buy them off us.
I think RVP is a very lucky man. I don't think Wenger wanted to build Arsenal around him, but that was the only tactic he could come up with to scramble 3rd place. RVP may have scored a lot, but he missed tons too and has a very limited skill-set. Wenger set the whole team in a way that made the absolute most of RVP's ability. I don't think he will get that at any other club, and I don't think he would have been as prominent in the Arsenal team this season.
I don't think Wenger wanted to lose RVP, but I don't think he is crying into his pillow every night over him leaving either.
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Robin van Bergkamp
Guest
But that's just it Toledo, RvP isn't looking for a huge payout. I think he has said this often himself but at his age I can understand that this is his final chance to secure some silverware and to do that we need to have a team that is capable in all departments. Sadly as I am sure you will agree, we are not and that is what I believe RvP has been trying to obtain sureties from the management/board. That it isn't forthcoming is why I believe he has decided to bring the matter out into the open. I rather think that took courage since if he was leaving anyway what would it matter what was said. Instead he has taken a chance and whether he wins this initiative or not, at least we will know the reasons for his departure.
I think the writing was on the wall wrt Cesc leaving. He wanted to leave a year earlier but Wenger persuaded him to stay. That said I do not think we got the right price for him. Barca won that round hands down. We should have made them pay for the privilege.
Perhaps replacing Wenger would not achieve much. Replacing the CEO and board would I believe get us back on track. If our club falls away from the league of winners it could herald a slide from which we may never recover. That is not what I would like to see in the future of our club. We are worth much more than that.
Win by better tactics - yes but that hasn't always been the case with us, nor many teams too perhaps. Win with handsown, homegrown players - yes BUT if they leave us before we can get the best out of them then we are no further in our quest for success and may as well make money being a feeder club. Making money of course appears to be what our CEO is about. Him and that majority shareholder. Oh I wish those who did had not sold out to him.
I think his skills are there for all to see. We've seen them over the years while admittedly these have been punctuated by spells of injury, they nevertheless are all there, especially in the past year and a half. Yes he has missed them but that happens to everyone. What is important is that he gets them most of the time and given that we didn't have the greatest supporting cast over the past season, he has done rather well.
I agree that in another club he may not receive the service but you never know how these elements are woven together. Who is to know what goes on from here?
I think Wenger will have wanted to cover as much as he can but I think too he does want RvP to stay. It isn't all lost yet and if he does stay, we could have the most potent strike force next season. However there are still those gaps and we have lost out on many occasions as a result of our weakness in midfield and defence. If we don't address these issues, getting ahead will be a lot more difficult. If RvP were in effect to leave then we would barely have made our lot better for the coming season so it's that 4th place battle again with a hope that it would be 3rd. That really is not what we should be about. In Formula 1 you would expect the likes of Ferrari, Red Bull and Mclaren to be winners since anything else is not good enough. Similarly anything outside of winning surely isn't good enough for us.
I think the rest of this is a debate we have had for a year or so now, so we can agree to differ perhaps.
On this point though, i would expect someone who loves the club not come out and say anything that will hurt it. I can't believe that RVP believes that anything he says will do anything to help the situation. I also think kicking Wenger in the teeth on the way out isn't exactly repaying his faith over the years. It was really a little mean and nasty if you ask me.
I wouldn't say making a public transfer request is exactly a courageous act. As I said before, we were 4 days into the transfer window and had spent more on players this window than any other club in the world. So that just makes RVP another petulant star in my book. I sincerely hope that we do buy another 3 or so Podolski/Giroud standard players, win the league and sit the special little flower on the bench all season, so he can see just how wrong he was!
If I am reading the financial situation corectly, I thing some money has come up and I think there is a bit to spend. This year, they have the money, they have the time and they have less "we hope he will come good" players. I don't think we are going to buy Ronaldo or Messi, or even Sneider, but I think we will get some seriously good players and make a decent fist of next season.
Well - so RVP has now seen from the Club how they are going to go forward - in other words they are NOT.
It has been clear to realists that the signings were to cover RVP leaving if indeed he did -insurance if you like.
RVP obviously had spelt out he would need more than that to stay. That has not been agreed - Wenger will have to make do -yet another season - his penultimate. So - will we force RVP to meander through the final year - or sell for what - £25m?
And where will those funds go? A late signing if at possible at the 11th hour - yet again?
More likely straight into the bank as usual? So we are a selling club - just what Wenger previously insisted we are not.
Yet we sell our best - but cannot sell the mediocre- why ? because we pay silly money to the ordinary.
No doubt our share value will remain high - the object of the exercise all along - silverware? - err... no that was never required.
It has been clear to realists that the signings were to cover RVP leaving if indeed he did -insurance if you like.
RVP obviously had spelt out he would need more than that to stay. That has not been agreed - Wenger will have to make do -yet another season - his penultimate. So - will we force RVP to meander through the final year - or sell for what - £25m?
And where will those funds go? A late signing if at possible at the 11th hour - yet again?
More likely straight into the bank as usual? So we are a selling club - just what Wenger previously insisted we are not.
Yet we sell our best - but cannot sell the mediocre- why ? because we pay silly money to the ordinary.
No doubt our share value will remain high - the object of the exercise all along - silverware? - err... no that was never required.
Who can prove RVP isn't simply leaving for higher wages? Nobody can, just as I can't prove he is, yet still so many are basing their complaints on the reason he is leaving as this so called lack of ambition bollocks. I can't believe how naive some people are for a) believing RVP or b) being taken in by those claiming what RVP says is the absolute truth. It suits your standpoint so you use it as a blunt instrument, totally disregarding fact or logic or alternate possibilities.
Not really sure what your point is here.
We are not in a position to know what was said to RVP, but let's assume the club said something like, "We don't believe Arsenal will spend the kind of money Manchester United, Manchester City or Chelsea will spend."
Does this constitute a lack of ambition or a statement of fact? Could it be interpreted by RVP as a lack of ambition, very probably. In any case, I highly doubt if Arsenal would ever share their exact signing plans with RVP, or particularly his agent, in detail. I don't see how it would be possible for the club to convince RVP that they had "ambition". Particularly as the alleged conversation took place before the transfer window even opened.
I suspect it could be as simple as RVP having his nose put out of joint, because he wanted to know who the club would sign and they refused to tell him. So he said, "How can I be sure that you can sign players", and they said, "You can't."
The rest of the post is a mish-mash of the usual have-it-both-ways hindsight argument we see all the time. Sign our best players to long-term contracts, so that we dont get into last year disputes like with Nasri and RVP, but when we sign players to long term contracts and they dont work out, then we were dumb signing long term contracts.
As for the selling club accusations, if you haven't figured out that clubs are powerless in this regard then you really aren't very observant. The power over whether the player signs a new contract lies entirely with the player. The only option the club has is to let the player's contract expire, which is always going to be an expensive and unlikely luxury.
Arsenal may very well be a selling club, but that is due entirely to the fact that we produce good players who are desirable to the mega-rich clubs. It has nothing to do with our mind-set.
COYG - I await Wenger saying RVP played a waiting game for £200k from Citeh all along.
No - he won't. I'm happy to accept RVP joins the growing list of disaffected players with Wenger and the lack of ambition.
No - he won't. I'm happy to accept RVP joins the growing list of disaffected players with Wenger and the lack of ambition.
TT- and your whole response to me is a mish-mash of your own supposition ....
True enough, but can you suppose anything that Wenger or the board could have said that would have convinced RVP thay had ambition, before the transfer window opened?
Remember RVP's exact words:
"Out of my huge respect for Mr Wenger, the players and the fans I don’t want to go into any details, but unfortunately in this meeting it has “again” become clear to me that we in many aspects disagree on the way Arsenal FC should move forward"
Meaning that he already had a preconceived view and the board could do nothing to change it, not that there had been any clear proof of a lack of ambition in the present time-frame.
Well you COULD say RVP was informed signings would hopefully take place to encourage him to stay.
Now 2 have - he says they are not good enough, and you might think he was told thats it. !
So - he pointed out what he wanted Arsenal to achieve - we understand the club's view is far enough away for him to repeat his requests.
Why expect him to back down? He may go for not much more than he is currently paid, but you cannot blame him taking the money if £200k is available. After all - it is rumoured Wenger is the 2nd highest paid manager in PL - for a very indifferent record.
He hasnt refused the money has he?
Now 2 have - he says they are not good enough, and you might think he was told thats it. !
So - he pointed out what he wanted Arsenal to achieve - we understand the club's view is far enough away for him to repeat his requests.
Why expect him to back down? He may go for not much more than he is currently paid, but you cannot blame him taking the money if £200k is available. After all - it is rumoured Wenger is the 2nd highest paid manager in PL - for a very indifferent record.
He hasnt refused the money has he?
This is the nub of the problem I have with a few who post on here. You are just a bit too happy to imagine that we have a team of disaffected players, **** manager & **** board. A case can be made for two sides of the argument, but you and the other few prefer to take the ultra negative view.
It simply brings us back to the old, but very apt 'doom & gloom' name tag.
Now, the players may be happy to play for Arsenal but why do they continue to leave? There is obviously a problem when a big club repeatedly loses it's best players. What if Walcott leaves this season? I know that Walcott has fans that either like him or not, but he played his part in rescuing us from a disasterous season. What does that say about us as a big club?
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