Movements at the Gate.

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bcfcredandwhite said:
I guess saving the wages was deemed more important than getting a transfer fee.
If what I’ve read on here is true then the price we’ve secured is going up by £16k a week and won’t stop!!!
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I am sorry I don't follow your logic, you will have to explain to me exactly how we were expected to get a for fee him, if nobody was prepared to pay said fee, or do you believe that we have perhaps turned down fees for him?, the guy made it clear that he didn't want to be here, he was unhappy from pretty much the first month that he arrived, what was the alternative force him to stay and see his contract out?. It has been publicly stated that he and LJ and the Hungarian football association fell out over playing him whilst he was already injured, exacerbating that injury, meaning that he was only ever fit enough to play 23 games in that first season, the die was cast from that moment on.

Nobody at our level has any money and that is his level at which he is at, playing for Hungary in the Euros is a side show, he obviously never impressed anybody with money enough that he was worth a fee.

All sad but true.
 
Jiffie said:
If you truly believe that then fine, that is not the way myself and a majority of fans remember it. The rot set in over 120 games ago and we have barely won one third of those games.

We as a club are paying the price for allowing the the recruitment to become dysfunctional, left with too many players with ego's bigger than their talent and not putting in a shift and now we are struggling to give away some of them still on our books.

However for the first time in a generation the young talent is getting a chance and that is progress.

I accept that covid did not help, but that is no excuse for what was allowed to happen pre covid and has led to this. The Kalas problem is complex and personal and I hope that he stays, but I will be surprised if he does. For me Moore and Wells can go, Moore is probably not consistent enough and Wells is on a huge wage and has been poor for ALL 3 managers, 15 goals in 65 games is shocking, it was a poor signing, made in desperation and sums up how dysfunctional our recruitment had become.
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Really, so Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid, Lloyd Kelly etc. were not given a chance? NP is being forced to use these kids as COVID as stripped all clubs of cash, so we have to look inwards. In all reality, if NP had money to spend, these kids would still be in the youth/reserve team, or out on loan to get experience.

I agree that LJ didn't play a lot of kids in the 1st team regularly, but don't confuse that with not developing them, he did that through loans, and we have seen the benefit in the fact that the likes of Vyner, Bakinson, Moore, Pring, O'Leary Semenyo etc. are now in and around the 1st team on a regular basis because of it. He also did that with Walsh and Morrell, but we will never see that benefit now. These kids will be on a high now, lets see if their performance levels remain this high in 10-15 games time, it almost certainly won't, it usually does for all but the very very few who are exceptional at that age. They will fade and need protection at this level for their development, which is why loans at lower league clubs is vital for these players
 
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Jiffie said:
If you truly believe that then fine, that is not the way myself and a majority of fans remember it. The rot set in over 120 games ago and we have barely won one third of those games.

We as a club are paying the price for allowing the the recruitment to become dysfunctional, left with too many players with ego's bigger than their talent and not putting in a shift and now we are struggling to give away some of them still on our books.

However for the first time in a generation the young talent is getting a chance and that is progress.

I accept that covid did not help, but that is no excuse for what was allowed to happen pre covid and has led to this. The Kalas problem is complex and personal and I hope that he stays, but I will be surprised if he does. For me Moore and Wells can go, Moore is probably not consistent enough and Wells is on a huge wage and has been poor for ALL 3 managers, 15 goals in 65 games is shocking, it was a poor signing, made in desperation and sums up how dysfunctional our recruitment had become.
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Perfect response
 
Supcon72 said:
Really, so Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid, Lloyd Kelly etc. were not given a chance? NP is being forced to use these kids as COVID as stripped all clubs of cash, so we have to look inwards. In all reality, if NP had money to spend, these kids would still be in the youth/reserve team, or out on loan to get experience.

I agree that LJ didn't play a lot of kids in the 1st team regularly, but don't confuse that with not developing them, he did that through loans, and we have seen the benefit in the fact that the likes of Vyner, Bakinson, Moore, Pring, O'Leary Semenyo etc. are now in and around the 1st team on a regular basis because of it. He also did that with Walsh and Morrell, but we will never see that benefit now. These kids will be on a high now, lets see if their performance levels remain this high in 10-15 games time, it almost certainly won't, it usually does for all but the very very few who are exceptional at that age. They will fade and need protection at this level for their development, which is why loans at lower league clubs is vital for these players
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Yes really, I do think sometimes you need to check your facts, Joe Bryan and Bobby Reid started to play in the first team in 2011 and were both well established by the time LJ landed in 2016. So that is totally incorrect to credit him with that. It is one of the reasons that people react so strongly to others over egging his CV.

The 2nd part of the first paragraph is total speculation about Pearson playing of the academy players and we didn't see them during LJ's covid time with us. Even if it is true at least Pring at 23 years of age must feel valued for a change and Scott has signed a 4 year contract on the back of his promotion to the first team.
 
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[QUOTE="Jiffie, post: 15130192, member: 1049358"]Yes really, I do think sometimes you need to check your facts, Joe Bryan and Bobby Reid started to play in the first team in 2011 and were both well established by the time LJ landed in 2016. So that is totally incorrect to credit him with that. It is one of the reasons that people react so strongly to others over egging his CV.

The 2nd part of the first paragraph is total speculation about Pearson playing of the academy players and we didn't see them during LJ's covid time with us. Even if it is true at least Pring at 23 years of age must feel valued for a change and Scott has signed a 4 year contract on the back of his promotion to the first team.[/QUOTE]

I never mentioned LJ in relation to Bobby and Joe, you said, "for the first time in a generation". I see a generation as 10-15 years; hence the point about those 2, I'm well aware they were in and around the team prior to LJ's arrival. Although Reid was never a regular by any stretch until LJ arrived.
Of course, my second point is speculation, much of football, and indeed the posts on here is, but I personally don't think if NP had money to spend on new players and wages, that this many kids would be in the first-team squad as often, the fact that 3 of the 4 players he has signed are all past 30 years old rather backs that point up..Totally my opinion, yours it would seem is different?
 
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Jiffie said:
I am sorry I don't follow your logic, you will have to explain to me exactly how we were expected to get a for fee him, if nobody was prepared to pay said fee, or do you believe that we have perhaps turned down fees for him?, the guy made it clear that he didn't want to be here, he was unhappy from pretty much the first month that he arrived, what was the alternative force him to stay and see his contract out?. It has been publicly stated that he and LJ and the Hungarian football association fell out over playing him whilst he was already injured, exacerbating that injury, meaning that he was only ever fit enough to play 23 games in that first season, the die was cast from that moment on.

Nobody at our level has any money and that is his level at which he is at, playing for Hungary in the Euros is a side show, he obviously never impressed anybody with money enough that he was worth a fee.

All sad but true.
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I meant that having him off the wage bill was effectively giving us £16k per week.
Any fee paid is a bonus.
 
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bcfcredandwhite said:
Again, I must stress; I'm not knocking NP - and even I can recognise from my Swindon bedroom that the football has become more 'entertaining', but at the end of the day it's a results business and I stand by my comment that I'd rather have a boring win than entertaining defeat.
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Personally I want an entertaining win , that’s impossible to achieve if you don’t attempt to play entertaining football, obviously if you get a boring win , that’ll do, but to watch boring football all the time becomes tedious.
 
AshtonRed said:
Personally I want an entertaining win , that’s impossible to achieve if you don’t attempt to play entertaining football, obviously if you get a boring win , that’ll do, but to watch boring football all the time becomes tedious.
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Personally I want the one single ingredient missing for more than 2 years, consistency, hopefully the entertainment that has mostly been missing for those 2 years will come with that consistency.

Without having played really well, we should be sat on 10 points and not the 4 we currently have. That is because of glaring misses, lack of conviction with our shooting and shocking individual mistakes, like exactly how did we end up initially 2 v 2 for Swansea's goal?, DaSilva, Pring, Simpson, Scott, Massengo and James all ahead of the ball when they broke, surely it's not too much to expect one of James, Massengo or Scott to be sat in front of the 2 centre backs?
 
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Jiffie said:
Personally I want the one single ingredient missing for more than 2 years, consistency, hopefully the entertainment that has mostly been missing for those 2 years will come with that consistency.

Without having played really well, we should be sat on 10 points and not the 4 we currently have. That is because of glaring misses, lack of conviction with our shooting and shocking individual mistakes, like exactly how did we end up initially 2 v 2 for Swansea's goal?, DaSilva, Pring, Simpson, Scott, Massengo and James all ahead of the ball when they broke, surely it's not too much to expect one of James, Massengo or James to be sat in front of the 2 centre backs?
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I 100% agree. I would say it's possibly been more than 2 years. We seem to (or at least we did under LJ) have periods characterised by picking up lots of points, usually pre-Xmas, then long periods of picking up hardly any points, usually from Feb onwards. This is frustrating for the management and the fans, but how do you get that out of players? One of the main gripes by many on here about LJ in particular, and Holden less so, was their inexperience in knowing how to coach the players, who clearly have the ability, but not consistency, which they did/do have as for 2 consecutive seasons we only missed out on the play-offs on the final games of the season. The call to replace DH was for a proven manager, who could convert that ability into consistency through their experience. It's way to early to tell if NP can do it, but he needs to start showing progress soon, as the nucleus of this side showed last season that when things go against them, they throw the towel in.
 
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£27k a week for Wells
Taylor Moore, can't be right he's on £7k a week.
Thank goodness our £1million Marley Watkins is gone and off the wages.
Wonder what he was on ?
Confetti anyone ?
 
Redprintt said:
£27k a week for Wells
Taylor Moore, can't be right he's on £7k a week.
Thank goodness our £1million Marley Watkins is gone and off the wages.
Wonder what he was on ?
Confetti anyone ?
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Name................Age..Pos..Weekly..Contract End
Marley Watkins -30-RW- £12,000-2021
 
Supcon72 said:
I 100% agree. I would say it's possibly been more than 2 years. We seem to (or at least we did under LJ) have periods characterised by picking up lots of points, usually pre-Xmas, then long periods of picking up hardly any points, usually from Feb onwards. This is frustrating for the management and the fans, but how do you get that out of players? One of the main gripes by many on here about LJ in particular, and Holden less so, was their inexperience in knowing how to coach the players, who clearly have the ability, but not consistency, which they did/do have as for 2 consecutive seasons we only missed out on the play-offs on the final games of the season. The call to replace DH was for a proven manager, who could convert that ability into consistency through their experience. It's way to early to tell if NP can do it, but he needs to start showing progress soon, as the nucleus of this side showed last season that when things go against them, they throw the towel in.
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The ones who have already gone were well past coaching or not good enough and several others that remain IMHO need to step up to the plate they have been totally inconsistent, Moore, ODowda, Vyner, Palmer and Wells, Nagy would be in that list but hopefully is leaving, we cannot wait much longer to show the consistency that we expected when they were signed, they have all had more than enough chances.

Moore is mistake prone, the last time ODowda influenced a game was December last year at QPR. Vyner spoils much of his good work by losing concentration especially at set pieces, he doesn't do enough to block crosses and is too easily turned, Palmer has improved his work rate but we need his creativity and that has been totally missing this season.

I suspect the problem is they all look great in training and doing the stuff we need them to do to be consistent on a Saturday but that form never transfers for the players that I mentioned. Once they step over the white line no coach in world football can stop them making mistakes, especially considering they have all been making the same mistakes for 3 managers now.

I cannot think of a manager who could prevent the type of mistakes some of our players continually make.
 
oneforthebristolcity said:
I wonder how much Pearsons getting for his services?
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He will pay with his job if he fails to turn it around, he will not be afforded the chances that 'others' were.

But I will lay a tidy wager with you that whoever replaces him will not make certain players more consistent, 2 managers paid with their jobs and another is struggling to make the same players stop making the same mistakes that got them sacked.
 
Jiffie said:
He will pay with his job if he fails to turn it around, he will not be afforded the chances that 'others' were.

But I will lay a tidy wager with you that whoever replaces him will not make certain players more consistent, 2 managers paid with their jobs and another is struggling to make the same players stop making the same mistakes that got them sacked.
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I don't believe that ODowda, Vyner or Palmer will be going anywhere soon.. And if they do, they will become better players with better players around them..IMO. as would Massengo, Kalas and DaSilva.......and possibly Wells.
 
oneforthebristolcity said:
I don't believe that ODowda, Vyner or Palmer will be going anywhere soon.. And if they do, they will become better players with better players around them..IMO. as would Massengo, Kalas and DaSilva.......and possibly Wells.
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I never said they would be going anywhere, I am saying that none of them have ever been consistent since being here, with the exception of Kalas. Massengo looks stronger this season and DaSilva needs to stay fit.

Of course if they are that good they should be on the move to bigger and better things, one thing is for sure we would not even come close to the near 28mil we shelled out for them in fact some of them probably wouldn't even earn us a fee, just like Nagy who the 'experts' believed was worth a good fee.

At least you seem to be accepting of the fact that these struggling players have never been supported by 'better' players, that's progress.
 
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