Off Topic Migrant crisis

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lardiman said:
All I would say to that is better an elected buffoon in my view than any of the following;
  • An unelected Commission of bureaucrats who make a mockery of democracy while pursuing their own predetermined agenda.
  • A leader who would use mob violence to try and stay in power, and claim any election result against him was rigged.
  • A tyrant who rules by the thuggery of his vast security police force, and mocks democracy and his constitution by switching roles between President and Prime Minister to keep himself in power for life.
Boris Johnson may be a clown and a bungler.
But he was freely and fairly elected by the British People.
And when the time comes, he will be freely and fairly removed from office (should he not resign or retire in the meantime).
And he will accept that decision and the peaceful transition of power, as a believer in and defender of democracy.
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Very well put Lardi.

I would just add that although I agree with the black and white one that Twatter is not the place for diplomatic negotiations, it is the case that we have been trying for weeks, months and indeed years to sort this out with France via the correct diplomatic channels, but they just say ‘non’, ‘non’, ‘non’ to every solution that would work best. Maybe this was an attempt to put the solution in black and white so that the public can see it (rather than via diplomats, which they can’t) and put the ball very firmly back in the French court. After all a bi-lateral returns agreement for anyone arriving illegally via small boats or otherwise would virtually end the current crisis overnight wouldn’t it ?
 
It might be partially effective.
Interviewed would-be migrants say if they were returned to France they would simply try to cross the Channel again and again.
But the traffickers are not going to provide free (at the point of use) inflatable boats to their customers more than once. After all, each migrant has only paid once.

What the French won't tolerate, and cannot be expected to, is the consequence of thousands of people streaming into their country every day, but almost none then leaving across the Channel.

I believe there is potential for a Europe Wide solution to the issue of settling migrants. One that shares the burden fairly across all countries (EU members or not).
But to reach it, a huge conference would have to be arranged. A process that might take a year or two.
A vast diplomatic exercise, maybe even greater in magnitude than the agreements that divided Germany after WW2.

The sooner all European Countries sit down together and begin negotiating, the sooner we might get a permanent and fair solution.
But such a conference only exists in my head, as far as I know.
In reality, the problem looks set to get worse year on year, for decades to come, while our national politicians bicker and strut for their home audiences.
 
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I think it would stop 95%+ of the crossings. They might say they’d try again and again when interviewed now, but realistically they wouldn’t as each time they ‘succeeded’ they would know they’d just be sent straight back again. And that’s regardless of the fact they can’t afford £3000 over and over again.
However the problem, as Lardi says, is that France doesn’t want that as it just shifts the problem to them. I have sympathy for that, but this is where it becomes an EU issue. But Boris, highlighting a solution to the channel crossings and asking the French to implement it has embarrassed the French which is why they have thrown their teddies out the pram and banned us from attending this weekends meetings.
 
The media is giving us a very one sided version of events. France has has accepted many more migrants than we have. They don't all want to use Europe as a route here. Look up the figures. Boris went on Twitter purely to stoke up anti French feeling to deflect attention away from his own disastrous couple of weeks. As he himself said "I crashed the car on a clear day".
 
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The Penguin said:
The media is giving us a very one sided version of events. France has has accepted many more migrants than we have. They don't all want to use Europe as a route here. Look up the figures. Boris went on Twitter purely to stoke up anti French feeling to deflect attention away from his own disastrous couple of weeks. As he himself said "I crashed the car on a clear day".
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I agree the media coverage is very one sided. Every single news item on this issue involves a reporter interviewing someone from a refugee support group or an asylum advice organisation, who funnily enough criticise the government for trying to stop the flow and for not allowing enough migrants to enter.

Not once, literally not once have I seen the BBC or C4 reporters go on to the streets and ask ordinary, working class people if they think that we should be letting more migrants in or not. And we all know why - it’s because they wouldn’t like the answers they would get.
 
As long as the revised Act makes it clear that people who come to this country then commit horrific crimes have no legal right to remain any longer (regardless of families they may have started here) and it is at the discretion of our Judges whether they be deported as part of their sentence - I'll be content.

Also people who leave this country to join terrorist groups who would kill us given the chance, can lose their British citizenship even if they were born here and will never be allowed back - again I'll be content.
I don't care if they become Stateless. It's their fault.

Also, any foreign nationals (however wealthy they are) convicted of offences relating to modern slavery, 'honour' crimes or misogynistic medical practices should be stripped of any right to stay here and be deported, and all their UK based assets & property should be seized.
Equality for women & girls is not exactly a long standing British tradition.
But now the vast majority of us recognise it as a basic human right, we should never accept its dilution - for any reason.
Certainly not political correctness.
 
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Depends what you mean by 'do something' about them. As I recall, Priti Patel wanted a wave machine in order to capsize the boats, presumably with the intention of drowning the immigrants, which she backed up by trying to tell the RNLI not to help them. I consider myself British, and if that is how we are behaving now, it's time she went to jail and left to rot. It's murder, or maybe manslaughter, and nicely reminiscent of the sort of thing the USSR used to do to defectors, as well as other nasty dictatorial regimes around the world.
 
Ken Shabby said:
Depends what you mean by 'do something' about them. As I recall, Priti Patel wanted a wave machine in order to capsize the boats, presumably with the intention of drowning the immigrants, which she backed up by trying to tell the RNLI not to help them. I consider myself British, and if that is how we are behaving now, it's time she went to jail and left to rot. It's murder, or maybe manslaughter, and nicely reminiscent of the sort of thing the USSR used to do to defectors, as well as other nasty dictatorial regimes around the world.
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That surely can’t be true !!!
I haven’t seen anything about wave machines and drowning migrants at the order of the British government.
Where is this info/fake news from ?
 
A wave machine to drown migrants and the Home secretary telling the RNLI not to rescue drowning people?
These accusations are clearly the result of fake news.

Open and honest debate on any newsworthy subject is welcome and encouraged here.
However I would prefer fake news not to be part of that debate please.
Whether that be Q-anon style conspiracy theories, anti-vacc falsehoods or accusations that British politicians would order migrants to be killed.
 
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If you google 'priti patel wave machine' there's a lot of stuff around the start of october. Last I heard it's still under consideration, but the gap between news and fake news is a misty one. It may have been withdrawn.
 
Ken Shabby said:
If you google 'priti patel wave machine' there's a lot of stuff around the start of october. Last I heard it's still under consideration, but the gap between news and fake news is a misty one. It may have been withdrawn.
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There are some reports that while asking for ideas on how to stem the flow, which is entirely reasonable, a suggestion was made that boats with pumps could be used to create waves to push boats carrying illegal immigrants away from British territorial waters for long enough so that the French authorities (in whose waters they were and had come from) could come and deal with them as they are legally obliged to do.

This was quickly dismissed due to the risk it would create to the migrants.

Nowhere did Priti Patel “want to capsize the boats”, “with the intention of drowning the migrants” and she has never told the RNLI “not to help people” (drowning in the channel).

So she doesn’t deserve to “go to jail and be left to rot”.

She is the Home Secretary of a democratically elected British government and one of her responsibilities is to try to stop people entering this country illegally. It is a difficult task and one which is not easily accomplished, but this sort of fake news, and that is exactly what it is, just makes the job harder, as gullible people will believe it and oppose any attempts to reduce the numbers.

Please let’s not spread these sorts of lies.
 
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I think with that clarification we have established that the Home Secretary has never tried to have migrants drowned in the English Channel.
Allegations of that kind not only serve to make her job more difficult, they make her more of a target for hate crime than she already is.

But that specific matter has been dealt with now as far as I'm concerned.
I hope we can draw a line under it now and move the debate on, in a spirit of mutual respect <peacedove>
 
With the caveat that the RNLI story was true - Patel wanted to include them in a broad law against aiding and abetting illegal immigrants entering the country, even if for no gain. She had to back down in december.
I'll post a link when I get out of bed.
 
I’ll probably get pelters for this but I think we should have the Navy patrolling the channel and they should be turning these boats back to France. Hopefully once a few are turned back word will get around and they’ll stop these crossings - we can’t depend on the French to stop them as they seem to be ushering them through to alleviate the problem on their shores
 
Smudger603 said:
I’ll probably get pelters for this but I think we should have the Navy patrolling the channel and they should be turning these boats back to France. Hopefully once a few are turned back word will get around and they’ll stop these crossings - we can’t depend on the French to stop them as they seem to be ushering them through to alleviate the problem on their shores
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I think that's what is going to happen.
Not saying it's a good move or a bad one. But I hear the military is taking over Channel security. That must include the Navy I assume.
 
Ken Shabby said:
With the caveat that the RNLI story was true - Patel wanted to include them in a broad law against aiding and abetting illegal immigrants entering the country, even if for no gain. She had to back down in december.
I'll post a link when I get out of bed.
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Probably just flying a kite. Until recently it was believed widely that Ms Patel's family came here with nothing after Idi Amin threw the Asians out of Uganda. In fact her father was an economic immigrant who set up a chain of newsagents (fair play to him), and she was born before Amin threw out the Asians. Under the immigration laws which she is proposing her family probably wouldn't have been allowed in. I believe this was uncovered by Nick Ferrari on LBC. If it had been the BBC there would have been howls of rage from her party.
 
Ken Shabby said:
With the caveat that the RNLI story was true - Patel wanted to include them in a broad law against aiding and abetting illegal immigrants entering the country, even if for no gain. She had to back down in december.
I'll post a link when I get out of bed.
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Now there is a court case I would like to see.
I do not believe any jury in this Land (regardless of their personal political views) would convict RNLI lifeboat crews of "aiding and abetting illegal immigrants" by saving their lives if they were drowning or in danger of drowning.
That would be the same as claiming it would be legal to have the ability to save them, but stand by and do nothing as they drown.

Pressing such a case would be political suicide for any UK Government, and those who run the CPS.
British people right across the political spectrum would be utterly disgusted by such actions.
 
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