McNulty Blathering again

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Drogs said:
you definitely haven't been watching Torres in a Chelsea shirt then <laugh>.

He's obviously not going to come back, but he's definitely due some praise for what he's done so far this season. If he can transfer his european form to the League then we'll have 10+ out of him which is fine by me.
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That i agree with, his decline reminds me of Owen's.
 
Carrick_16 said:
That i agree with, his decline reminds me of Owen's.
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He was in decline before joining us, us paying £50m was just the cornerstone of everybody noticing due to the massive pressure it put on him. I wanted Aguero at the time, not Torres, due to how poorly he was playing. I genuinely think Roman's final decision to buy him was based on those two he netted against us prior to joining.
 
Drogs said:
you definitely haven't been watching Torres in a Chelsea shirt then <laugh>.

He's obviously not going to come back, but he's definitely due some praise for what he's done so far this season. If he can transfer his european form to the League then we'll have 10+ out of him which is fine by me.
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I would normally agree but we seen the side of Torres that causes his dips in form. The sulking and general unhappiness. I can't say I'd be heaping praise on him for earning his huge pay packet for a few games a season, in the normal workaday world you'd be sacked for such a performance.

I agree he has shown some improvement but not enough to warrant praise tbh. well not if you are his boss and paymaster anyway
 
Drogs said:
He was in decline before joining us, us paying £50m was just the cornerstone of everybody noticing due to the massive pressure it put on him. I wanted Aguero at the time, not Torres, due to how poorly he was playing. I genuinely think Roman's final decision to buy him was based on those two he netted against us prior to joining.
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I think he wanted Torres a couple of years before you got him.
 
Carrick_16 said:
I think he wanted Torres a couple of years before you got him.
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Roman did (as did Fergie) but he must have been having doubts due to his injury record with us the season or two before. I've said all along that Torres scoring in that game made Abramovich sit up and notice again. Plus I'm damn sure Torres upped his game for that one because he knew about the interest. Being truthful he was a sulky little ****er all the other games he played for us that season.
 
Drogs said:
He was in decline before joining us, us paying £50m was just the cornerstone of everybody noticing due to the massive pressure it put on him. I wanted Aguero at the time, not Torres, due to how poorly he was playing. I genuinely think Roman's final decision to buy him was based on those two he netted against us prior to joining.
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Roman has a habit of buying strikers based on Youtube videos from seasons past - Torres, Shevchenko are prime exhibits - and discarding top quality youngsters - Lukaku, Sturridge are the top exhibits here. Can you imagine having Sturridge and Lukaku up top instead of Torres alone...
 
StJohn_Red_Legend said:
Roman has a habit of buying strikers based on Youtube videos from seasons past - Torres, Shevchenko are prime exhibits - and discarding top quality youngsters - Lukaku, Sturridge are the top exhibits here. Can you imagine having Sturridge and Lukaku up top instead of Torres alone...
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Lukaku and Sturridge would be tasty with the kind of support they'd get from Oscar and Mata<ok>
 
I'm in a minority when I believe Torres wasn't in a decline before he joined Chelsea.

I agree his performances weren't amazing but I maintain that was down to Roy's diabolical tactics which left Torres isolated. It's no coincidence that Torres's form picked up when he scored 3 goals in 2 games when Kenny took over.

Finally, I don't blame Torres for wanting to leave - he was promised by owners that they would reinvest in the playing squad and bring in quality. They lied to him on several occasions and he then grew disillusioned with the club. No excuse but it's a reason why he appears so dejected.

What hurts the most were the comments when he joined Chelsea (show some more respect mate!) and that he left it so late to force the move but then again, he was promised time and time again and his patience wore out.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
I'm in a minority when I believe Torres wasn't in a decline before he joined Chelsea.

I agree his performances weren't amazing but I maintain that was down to Roy's diabolical tactics which left Torres isolated. It's no coincidence that Torres's form picked up when he scored 3 goals in 2 games when Kenny took over.

Finally, I don't blame Torres for wanting to leave - he was promised by owners that they would reinvest in the playing squad and bring in quality. They lied to him on several occasions and he then grew disillusioned with the club. No excuse but it's a reason why he appears so dejected.

What hurts the most were the comments when he joined Chelsea (show some more respect mate!) and that he left it so late to force the move but then again, he was promised time and time again and his patience wore out.
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I think its about more than just how many goals the lad scored. It is part of the reason I can understand him getting praise and stick at the minute; he is playing well without scoring enough goals. At Liverpool, his all round game was awful for the last twelve to eighteen months at the club (yes, that includes Rafa still being here) and his attitude absolutely ****ing stank! Fair enough, Kenny got a bit of the old Torres out of him but didn't Kenny take over the reigns during the January transfer window in which Fernando left? Would it be wrong for me to think that El Nino was playing better because he was "in the shop window"...?

I actually want to see Torres become good again, much in the same way as I would have liked to have seen Man Utd re-sign Ronaldo or for Bale to stay at Spurs. I like watching football and I want to see the best players in our league. I want Liverpool to achieve something without other clubs having any excuses too.
 
StJohn_Red_Legend said:
Roman has a habit of buying strikers based on Youtube videos from seasons past - Torres, Shevchenko are prime exhibits - and discarding top quality youngsters - Lukaku, Sturridge are the top exhibits here. Can you imagine having Sturridge and Lukaku up top instead of Torres alone...
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Bit extreme but I get what you're saying <laugh>.

Re Lukaku, I'm actually pleased he's out on loan. Torres fits well into our system and is used to playing with our current players, moreso than Lukaku. Whenever I saw Lukaku in pre-season he just didn't look ready for Chelsea (sounds arrogant but I'm not trying to be). He needs regular game time for a much bigger club than West Brom, and that's what he's going to get with Everton and definitely wouldn't with Torres, Ba and Eto'o in his way. I also think it's harsh to say Roman is discarding Lukaku, I still believe he'll be a class act for Chelsea one day.

I'd love to have kept Sturridge though, had really high hopes from the get go and looks like I was right if you look at his current form! Bagged youselves a gem.
 
I couldn't care less what happens to Torres. He's not a Liverpool player and is not likley to be in the future. Therefore he only rates the attention that any other opposing player deserves.

However, the real anger regarding his departure is directed at both myself and us as fans. We are old enough and ugly enough to have learnt by now that players have feet of clay. Before Torres we'd already had the experience of Owen and Keegan but we did not really learn the lesson. To top that we have put ourselves in the same position with Suarez. So I suppose I'm saying that we should not just get older, we should grow up. Players are players, enjoy them whilst they are here, thank them for their efforts and move on to the next one.

We expected the same line of loyalty that ran from Billy Liddell through Shank's sides to Stevie Gerrard and Carra. We just didn't truly appreciate just how precious and rare that is!
 
Foredeckdave said:
I couldn't care less what happens to Torres. He's not a Liverpool player and is not likley to be in the future. Therefore he only rates the attention that any other opposing player deserves.

However, the real anger regarding his departure is directed at both myself and us as fans. We are old enough and ugly enough to have learnt by now that players have feet of clay. Before Torres we'd already had the experience of Owen and Keegan but we did not really learn the lesson. To top that we have put ourselves in the same position with Suarez. So I suppose I'm saying that we should not just get older, we should grow up. Players are players, enjoy them whilst they are here, thank them for their efforts and move on to the next one.

We expected the same line of loyalty that ran from Billy Liddell through Shank's sides to Stevie Gerrard and Carra. We just didn't truly appreciate just how precious and rare that is!
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^ Is the right answer.

Every club on the planet, with the possible exception of Barca currently - risk losing their best players to a club further up the football food chain.

Every club has experienced it, from Gainsborough Trinity to Manchester United. It's how it works, but it's us as fans, that suffer the ridiculous sense of loss we feel, when one of our stars move on, as we have an emotional attachment to our clubs, which unfortunately, most of our players do not (or even if they do, it more often than not, takes second place to perceived career progression & of course...........cold, hard cash!)
 
Foredeckdave said:
I couldn't care less what happens to Torres. He's not a Liverpool player and is not likley to be in the future. Therefore he only rates the attention that any other opposing player deserves.

However, the real anger regarding his departure is directed at both myself and us as fans. We are old enough and ugly enough to have learnt by now that players have feet of clay. Before Torres we'd already had the experience of Owen and Keegan but we did not really learn the lesson. To top that we have put ourselves in the same position with Suarez. So I suppose I'm saying that we should not just get older, we should grow up. Players are players, enjoy them whilst they are here, thank them for their efforts and move on to the next one.

We expected the same line of loyalty that ran from Billy Liddell through Shank's sides to Stevie Gerrard and Carra. We just didn't truly appreciate just how precious and rare that is!
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Well said Dave. I believe that if a player doesn't want to play for my club, then fair enough I don't want them there. No malice involved, just good luck in the future except when they return to play against us.
 
Tobes said:
^ Is the right answer.

Every club on the planet, with the possible exception of Barca currently - risk losing their best players to a club further up the football food chain.

Every club has experienced it, from Gainsborough Trinity to Manchester United. It's how it works, but it's us as fans, that suffer the ridiculous sense of loss we feel, when one of our stars move on, as we have an emotional attachment to our clubs, which unfortunately, most of our players do not (or even if they do, it more often than not, takes second place to perceived career progression & of course...........cold, hard cash!)
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That's what I've never understood Tobes, why should they have an attachment? Especially a forced one. It's a career at the end of the day and it's a foreign country to them. If I went to play in Spain, my objective would be to win as many trophies as possible along with a nice fat pay cheque. Meaning if I played for Real Madrid and Barcelona come along and offer me twice as much with more chance of a trophy, I'll snatch it with both hands. The only time I'll 'boo' a former player is if they've bad mouthed the club in the media after leaving.
 
Tobes said:
^ Is the right answer.

Every club on the planet, with the possible exception of Barca currently - risk losing their best players to a club further up the football food chain.

Every club has experienced it, from Gainsborough Trinity to Manchester United. It's how it works, but it's us as fans, that suffer the ridiculous sense of loss we feel, when one of our stars move on, as we have an emotional attachment to our clubs, which unfortunately, most of our players do not (or even if they do, it more often than not, takes second place to perceived career progression & of course...........cold, hard cash!)
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Players are PROFESSIONAL - at least in so far as they sell their 'skills' for the highest price that they can. Now, if I wasn't retired then I'd even accept a consultancy commission from you if you paid enough! So, how can I honestly blame a footballer?

It's the emotional bond that exists with the club that confuses the issue. But if we support THE CLUB as we say then that problem is lessened.
 
Drogs said:
That's what I've never understood Tobes, why should they have an attachment? Especially a forced one. It's a career at the end of the day and it's a foreign country to them. If I went to play in Spain, my objective would be to win as many trophies as possible along with a nice fat pay cheque. Meaning if I played for Real Madrid and Barcelona come along and offer me twice as much with more chance of a trophy, I'll snatch it with both hands. The only time I'll 'boo' a former player is if they've bad mouthed the club in the media after leaving.
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I'm not saying that they should mate, it's just a pity for us fans, that's not how it works.

It was slightly different years ago when most sides had a core of local players in their squads. Players were more likely to be 'fans' & the 'one club man' was a lot more common.
 
Foredeckdave said:
Players are PROFESSIONAL - at least in so far as they sell their 'skills' for the highest price that they can. Now, if I wasn't retired then I'd even accept a consultancy commission from you if you paid enough! So, how can I honestly blame a footballer?

It's the emotional bond that exists with the club that confuses the issue. But if we support THE CLUB as we say then that problem is lessened.
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Ultimately we do all support 'the club', but the club manifests itself on the pitch & players that improve our clubs status are idolised on the terraces - same as it ever was.

The day we stop feeling the way we do, is the day we've lost the passion for it imo.
 
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